Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[Thelastleg]

That is close to what I am saying. We know BG crossed to bridge up to a certain point. What he did after that point in the video, we don't know...until he said "down the hill," and at some point later killed the girls.

LE has told us the girls crossed the creek, so we know that. I'm also not sure where Libby's father was set to pick them up. I guess I've assumed at the same spot the sister dropped them off. I think if they had crossed the bridge, turned straight around and gone back the same way, maybe the timing was right? Not sure.

But at the moment, I'm putting a lot of thought into him cutting them off from the north after they crossed the creek. It does make more sense from BG's perspective than he himself crossing the creek. I am probably thinking beyond rational, though. It doesn't feel like a popular theory.

I'm with you on this. It just seems very plausible that they made a run for it and he cut them off. I'm still in two minds whether he had an accomplice hiding on the other side of the bridge.

 

[TL4S]

I'm with you on this. It just seems very plausible that they made a run for it and he cut them off. I'm still in two minds whether he had an accomplice hiding on the other side of the bridge.

My personal feeling is no, no accomplice. And I know this is really baseless, but he's such an *advertiser censored**hole that I just don't see him crossing the creek. Yeah, cross the bridge again, listen to the girls crossing the creek below, squeeling at how cold the water is while he cuts through the woods. I can see him doing that.

Just for the heck of it, here's two maps. One is the girl's route across the creek (my guess only as to the easiest route down hills and over sandbars). The other is IF BG had crossed back over the bridge and walked through the woods to cut them off, meeting up with them. His "down the hill" in this scenario is the hill behind the cemetery. His route, in this case, is only 672 feet further than the girls. He had the bridge to cross, they had the creek. Does the timing seem plausible to meet around that area? IDK

 

[Boxer]

My personal feeling is no, no accomplice. And I know this is really baseless, but he's such an *advertiser censored**hole that I just don't see him crossing the creek. Yeah, cross the bridge again, listen to the girls crossing the creek below, squeeling at how cold the water is while he cuts through the woods. I can see him doing that.

Yes. I agree, to even think about this crime requires thinking like the most cowardly self interested killer you can imagine. This crime has always seemed to be like a shoplifter, hanging around ready, noticing a lull or distraction and then taking fast, bold action.

 

[steeltowngirl]

We talk a lot about crossing the creek but from my memory only, I believe that that shoreline area below the crime scene has a steep embankment. I'm looking to find pictures, I think my memory is coming from the helicopter footage.

But if it was as steep as my memory serves the girls were found some 50 feet up over the embankment into the woods. I don't know if they could have easily gotten up into those woods once crossing the creek. It may have taken all, girls and BG to be on hands and knees to get up there unless there were some trees to grab onto. If BGs pants were not wet because of crossing in a shallow area I would think at least the knees of his pants would have been dirty/muddy...

We've not heard of any witness describing a guy with wet or dirty pants. That would stick out to me. If I had seen someone with wet or dirty knees I would have laughed to myself that that person probably took a spill on the trail!

Anyone have pictures of the embankment area below the crime scene from the creek looking up?

Not from the creek up, but in view of the creek, here are a few photos of the yellow taped area. Also, in this article there are a couple of short videos where the neighbor shows the area to a reporter.
Delphi property owner: "I can't comprehend it"

 

[susiQ]

Knowing of that now-closed secondary access point to the high bridge trail from private land would be a good reason for LE to believe the murderer had local connections. The question would be though, why didn’t LE consider this a lucrative possibility from the onset.

RSABBM
Yes, this is the $64,000 question for me. Why was all of that passed by?

 

[Cutiekitty]

My personal feeling is no, no accomplice. And I know this is really baseless, but he's such an *advertiser censored**hole that I just don't see him crossing the creek. Yeah, cross the bridge again, listen to the girls crossing the creek below, squeeling at how cold the water is while he cuts through the woods. I can see him doing that.

Just for the heck of it, here's two maps. One is the girl's route across the creek (my guess only as to the easiest route down hills and over sandbars). The other is IF BG had crossed back over the bridge and walked through the woods to cut them off, meeting up with them. His "down the hill" in this scenario is the hill behind the cemetery. His route, in this case, is only 672 feet further than the girls. He had the bridge to cross, they had the creek. Does the timing seem plausible to meet around that area? IDK

The leading the girls across the creek theory never sat right with me. Them going across to get away sits better.

 

[MistyWaters]

Im confused about where Libby's father had arranged to pick them up. Was it on the side of the creek that they were found near the cemetery? Is part of the trail on that side of the bridge too. I keep thinking that they seem to have doubled back on themselves. If it was close to the time that they were to be picked up and they were still on the bridge or in the area how long would it have taken to get to the pick up point? I'm trying to picture the bridge and your theory I think it's very possible that he watched them trying to get to safety but headed them off when they crossed the creek.

According to my attempt at understanding the lay of the land, where the girls were dropped off and were supposed to be picked up was a since-closed access through the M’s property, directly beside the Mary Gerard Nature Reserve, on the west side towards Delphi. The path joined up with the same trail to the bridge that led from the main access, but making it somewhat of a shorter route.

The trails led to the bridge which crossed the creek, and their bodies were discovered on the same side as the trail heads and cemetery which it why it’s presumed they crossed the creek from the far end of the bridge. The old rail bridge is quite long and passes over far more land than water. It apparently takes about 7 minutes to walk from one end to the other.

 

[Jabarn]

The leading the girls across the creek theory never sat right with me. Them going across to get away sits better.

I totally agree, although logic takes a backseat sometimes. If his intent was abduction or assault, why would he stage the attack at the tail end of the bridge and not wait until they came back across?

All I can think he saw an opportunity, was aware of what was below the bridge, and took a chance. I kind of lean toward the girls running across the creek, too. If so, why didn’t he just turn tail and get out of there?

 

[sunshineray]

The leading the girls across the creek theory never sat right with me. Them going across to get away sits better.

I agree, one of those video walks I watched shows the area on the "down the hill" side, going along the creek upstream. It showrd an area of tall trees but they weren't crowded. It looked very secluded. I think that might have been the spot he was taking them to. The access to the creek up that way didn't look as steep either. I think they made a run for it to cross over or get out in the open to look for help. Only thing is nobody heard screams or yells, well that we've heard of anyway.

 

[MistyWaters]

I totally agree, although logic takes a backseat sometimes. If his intent was abduction or assault, why would he stage the attack at the tail end of the bridge and not wait until they came back across?

All I can think he saw an opportunity, was aware of what was below the bridge, and took a chance. I kind of lean toward the girls running across the creek, too. If so, why didn’t he just turn tail and get out of there?

If it wasn’t an extraordinary event to hear gunshots in the distance coming from acreages and farms or rabbit hunters in the rural area and if the girls attempted to flee across the river, I’ve always wondered if he did indeed abandon an attempted SA or kidnapping plot and just stood at the river bank, aimed and shot them in the back as they attempted to run upward toward the ridge. If so that could be why LE doesn’t have a good, known DNA sample. It would also make for a very quick tragedy, the murderer gone within minutes.

Another reason I lean towards this theory as well is their death would’ve come quickly without additional involvement of torture, pain or suffering . That said, the murderer could’ve made the choice to just let them run but that he didn’t is proof he needs to be caught, a ruthless, disturbed creature. JMO

 

[Jabarn]

I agree, one of those video walks I watched shows the area on the "down the hill" side, going along the creek upstream. It showrd an area of tall trees but they weren't crowded. It looked very secluded. I think that might have been the spot he was taking them to. The access to the creek up that way didn't look as steep either. I think they made a run for it to cross over or get out in the open to look for help. Only thing is nobody heard screams or yells, well that we've heard of anyway.

Yes, as far as I can tell from MSM, no one heard a thing. Trying to imagine if I would scream in a predicament like this and honestly don’t think I would, because I would be more afraid of BG than hope of help, if that makes sense, so would be quiet.

All in all, we don’t know how the girls came to be in their final resting spot. There are so many possibilities.

One other thing to consider is the mention of looking for a car parked at the social services building, and not one parked at the trailhead, where the girls were dropped off. It could mean a lot.

Even the cemetery could be a place for BG to have parked, but that was never mentioned in the press releases.

 

[tresir2012]

So sorry- can someone direct me to the transcript of LE saying the girls definitely crossed the creek? (The video posted a couple pages back is not syncing up for me.).

I checked for a while in the media thread but my tired brain has given up after searching multiple pages. TIA.

I couldn't find it either. I think thread 65 may have it somewhere in it. Still looking.

 

[Jabarn]

If it wasn’t an extraordinary event to hear gunshots in the distance coming from acreages and farms or rabbit hunters in the rural area and if the girls attempted to flee across the river, I’ve always wondered if he did indeed abandon an attempted SA or kidnapping plot and just stood at the river bank, aimed and shot them in the back as they attempted to run upward toward the ridge. If so that could be why LE doesn’t have a good, known DNA sample. It would also make for a very quick tragedy, the murderer gone within minutes.

Another reason I lean towards this theory as well is their death would’ve come quickly without additional involvement of torture, pain or suffering . That said, the murderer could’ve made the choice to just let them run but that he didn’t is proof he needs to be caught, a ruthless, disturbed creature. JMO

So scary, but possible. He might have taking hunting to another level. Not sure, but something to consider, MW. If so, I would assume two possibilities 1) he wanted to make sure no witness were available and/or 2) he wanted to complete a hunt. JMO, too.

 

[sunshineray]

If someone knows, are pictures from ABC-7 reporter's Twitter ok to link here?

 

[cody22]

If someone knows, are pictures from ABC-7 reporter's Twitter ok to link here?

Yes, I think so. I see Media Twitter posts on other threads.....moo

 

[MizStery]

Error in posting

 

[MistyWaters]

So scary, but possible. He might have taking hunting to another level. Not sure, but something to consider, MW. If so, I would assume two possibilities 1) he wanted to make sure no witness were available and/or 2) he wanted to complete a hunt. JMO, too.

IMO to your first possibility, that would describe to me the epitome of A Coward, shooting at two innocent children as they’re attempting to make their way to safety.

 

[Falling Down]

So he was only like 80 or 90 feet from them? I wonder when they had their conversation about not having anywhere to go. How long had they watched him crossing the bridge? Hmm...

What I picture is the girls waiting for him to either turn around or pass them at the SE end of the bridge.

GH and others have estimated BG's distance in the video to be around 70 or so feet from Libby.

JMO

-FD

 

[Trocroc9]

I keep going over the two sketches and video in my head. They are so different without any real explanation as to how they switched from old BG to the now younger BG aside from “new information”. It is very confusing especially because they have had the new sketch for so long but never released it. When watching the video IMO the suspect looks like an older man 40’s maybe even 50’s.

Just a thought but could this actually be a tactic by LE to make the true suspect think he is off the radar in hopes he will make a mistake and commit another crime and/or be upset that he is not in the spotlight? Would LE even do anything like that or have they ever in any past cases?

 

[Boxer]

What I picture is the girls waiting for him to either turn around or pass them at the SE end of the bridge.

GH and others have estimated BG's distance in the video to be around 70 or so feet from Libby.

JMO

-FD

Just for comparison, distance between baseball bases = 90 ft.