GUILTY Ireland - Anastasia Kriegel, 14, Found deceased, Lucan, Co Dublin, 14 May 2018 *minors arrested*

[mrjitty]

I don’t think boy B planned it at all, but he did have his chance to tell what had happened when everyone was looking for Ana. To come forward and tell, as a voluntary witness. Supposedly you don’t expect the murder (but probably expect the rape, or something not legit anyhow; bad, but still, not murder). But then you watch your friend kill a person. Would you not run home sobbing and call the police?

So yes, boy B had the chance, and lost it.

Exactly

You have to take the Court into your confidence if you want the benefit of the doubt.

 

[mrazda71]

I don’t think boy B planned it at all, but he did have his chance to tell what had happened when everyone was looking for Ana. To come forward and tell, as a voluntary witness. Supposedly you don’t expect the murder (but probably expect the rape, or something not legit anyhow; bad, but still, not murder). But then you watch your friend kill a person. Would you not run home sobbing and call the police?

So yes, boy B had the chance, and lost it.

You don't think it's at all suspicious that he didn't have a smartphone/ laptop or the clothes he was wearing or his backpack examined?

He certainly had enough time before his arrest to get rid of them didn't he, possibly with help from parents by that point, even if they didn't think he was guilty of anything.

 

[Kikixxxx]

You don't think it's at all suspicious that he didn't have a phone or the clothes he was wearing it his backpack examined?

He certainly had enough time before arrest to get rid of them didn't he, possibly with help from parents by that point even if they didn't think he was guilty of anything

Was boy B’s clothes not examined?

 

[mrazda71]

Was boy B’s clothes not examined?

I've read everything I could and seen no mention of Boy B's clothing or backpack other than him being asked what was in it when it was seen in CCTV- he said a water bottle but, 40 minutes later was so thirsty he had to go for a drink at the ranger hut in the park aye

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I've read everything I could and seen no mention of Boy B's clothing or backpack other than him being asked what was in it when it was seen in CCTV- he said a water bottle but, 40 minutes later was so thirsty he had to go for a drink at the ranger hut in the park aye

Interesting! What are you thinking?

ETA apparently I cannot spell think past 11pm

 

[mrazda71]

Interesting! What are you thinking?

ETA apparently I cannot spell think past 11pm

Boy As clothes & boots were taken almost immediately as evidence of him "being beaten up by 2 big baddies" ...

But ...

Quote from The complete story by Connor Gallagher

'
A week after Ana’s body was found gardaí were granted a warrant to arrest both boys.

From the very beginning of the investigation concessions were made for their age; some were required by law, others were at the discretion of the Garda, lawyers and judges.

Both boys’ parents were informed on the evening of May 23rd their sons would be arrested the following day. The parents were asked to bring them to the Garda station in the morning. But they were not told their homes would be searched immediately after the arrests. '

10 DAYS after the murder AND prior warning of their arrests ...

 

[Frizby]

I've read everything I could and seen no mention of Boy B's clothing or backpack other than him being asked what was in it when it was seen in CCTV- he said a water bottle but, 40 minutes later was so thirsty he had to go for a drink at the ranger hut in the park aye

Everything he said in his interviews contradicted his previous interviews and his excuse that a bottle of water was in his backpack was highly suspicious, not believed by the Garda as you quite rightly point out he claimed he went for a drink of water in the park. Obviously not believed by the Jury which would raise the question in my mind and I am sure theirs, what was in his backpack.

Boy A did not have a chance to get rid of his cloths or his shoes as these were handed over after initial questioning prior to any suspicion as he had said he had been beaten up in the park. Boy B had plenty of time to get rid of his cloths, not seen anything either that any items were recovered apart from a roll of blue tape in the shed at his house. I don't believe for one second that he gave that tape to the other boy a couple of weeks before hand, he claims that he gave it to Boy A who used it to make a weapon, no evidence of that was found in Boy A's house.

My gut says he planned this, they planned it together. Both boys were seen on CCTV coming home from school together an hour before Boy B called to lure Ana out on a pretence. There is no way on this earth that he told Ana that the other Boy wanted to put her right about her crush, he led her to believe that there was a chance, she left happy. I really do think that he knew what he was doing.

 

[Kikixxxx]

I wondered about this too! I can’t believe they would give both parents a warning, what if their parents had hid evidence? Or panicked and disposed of something trying to protect their sons. I can’t believe boy a didn’t dispose of his backpack with his “rape kit” in either, he wasn’t arrested until ten days after the murder, he had plenty of time to do so and he was aware the police knew he was one of the last ppl to see ana alive, so why keep that damning evidence in your wardrobe? I’m not sure if anyone else on this thread was aware of the viktorija sokolova case, the 16 year old boy who was found guilty of Her brutal murder, he too took a backpack to and from the scene (caught on cctv) which contained the hammer and his bloody clothes but he was conscious enough to dispose of it straight after the murder and police never recovered it. I suppose boy a was still only 13, maybe this was just naivety on His part?

Also, I read his mum washed his clothes twice she obviously must of done this before handing them into police , so when do you think police actually collected his clothes and boots from boy a? It can’t of been that same day as she said she soaked his clothes overnight.

 

[Kikixxxx]

Boy A did not have a chance to get rid of his cloths or his shoes as these were handed over after initial questioning prior to any suspicion as he had said he had been beaten up in the park. Boy B had plenty of time to get rid of his cloths, not seen anything either that any items were recovered apart from a roll of blue tape in the shed at his house. I don't believe for one second that he gave that tape to the other boy a couple of weeks before hand, he claims that he gave it to Boy A who used it to make a weapon, no evidence of that was found in Boy A's house.
.

Yep good point! Where was this weapon boy a made with the blue insulation tape? I think it was one of the items in boy B’s backpack that day, among other things that maybe they didn’t use. Other possible weapons maybe. Sorry but who takes a backpack for a water bottle? I think they planned it on the way home from school together. I wonder if the plan was boy B would get more involved but maybe panicked when it was actually
Happening? It’s odd if not, that they’d planned that he would just stand there and watch?

 

[Kikixxxx]

Sorry I meant Garda** it’s habit lol

 

[rodyarodya]

Yep good point! Where was this weapon boy a made with the blue insulation tape? I think it was one of the items in boy B’s backpack that day, among other things that maybe they didn’t use. Other possible weapons maybe. Sorry but who takes a backpack for a water bottle? I think they planned it on the way home from school together. I wonder if the plan was boy B would get more involved but maybe panicked when it was actually
Happening? It’s odd if not, that they’d planned that he would just stand there and watch?

Good point about the bag and water bottle--nobody does that!

I thought it was interesting that when he first placed himself in the house, he said he had picked up a white plank and put it down again. Knowing how he changed his story repeatedly to fit the facts, I think he may have been considering that they would find both the plank and his DNA on it. It was such an unnecessary detail, almost like his mind whirring. To my mind, he may not have contributed the worst of the *actual* attack, but it's entirely possible he was holding that or some other weapon and cutting off the only exit from the room. The pathologist said Ana was likely attacked in the doorway of the dark room at first. It's really horrible to think of Boy A waiting there while Boy B led her through the house, if that's how it happened.

Still kinda curious Boy A didn't try to drag or implicate B further though, even if it had been in vain. Just responded: "he's lying." With his own DNA all over the scene, it's not like he had much to lose by then.

 

[Kikixxxx]

Good point about the bag and water bottle--nobody does that!

I thought it was interesting that when he first placed himself in the house, he said he had picked up a white plank and put it down again. Knowing how he changed his story repeatedly to fit the facts, I think he may have been considering that they would find both the plank and his DNA on it. It was such an unnecessary detail, almost like his mind whirring. To my mind, he may not have contributed the worst of the *actual* attack, but it's entirely possible he was holding that or some other weapon and cutting off the only exit from the room. The pathologist said Ana was likely attacked in the doorway of the dark room at first. It's really horrible to think of Boy A waiting there while Boy B led her through the house, if that's how it happened.

Still kinda curious Boy A didn't try to drag or implicate B further though, even if it had been in vain. Just responded: "he's lying."

Yep same. The thought of him dressed in his zombie mask, hood up, gloves and knee pads on, just waiting in that dark room for her to walk in. I wonder if he was hiding behind the door or something. It’s honestly like something out of a horror movie. To think it happened at 5.30pm too, broad daylight, everyone driving home from work and such evil was happening so close by.
Yeah I thought the same about the white plank. I wonder if they ever found the plank he was talking about and examined it? I doubt it cause I’m sure the forensic team didn’t even test the rock covered in blood and hair until mid way through the trial. Which I found so odd!!
I know, why didn’t he try and defend himself when he knew his mate was putting all the blame on him? You would think he would at least try to implicate boy B, if he was going to get sent to jail for it you would think he would want his mate to go down too? They were in on it together after all.. I can’t work it out.

 

[Frizby]

Still kinda curious Boy A didn't try to drag or implicate B further though, even if it had been in vain. Just responded: "he's lying." With his own DNA all over the scene, it's not like he had much to lose by then.

But by keeping quiet and not admitting anything, there was the chance that the Garda slipped up in some way and the case could get thrown out on a technicality. There was no benefit for him in admitting anything and if he pointed the finger at Boy B he would be admitting it. Also, it would have opened him up to further questioning about it all being planned and the level of planning. He took his chances for his own benefit. Thankfully the Garda were impeccable in all they did.

 

[Kikixxxx]

I’ve just had a awful thought she might not of even knew it was boy A at all if he was dressed in that mask with his hood up, she might of died not knowing who it was and just thinking boy B had led her to a complete stranger and not even realised it was in fact a person she knew and a person she supposedly had a crush on !! How heartbreaking is that to think about

 

[Kikixxxx]

But by keeping quiet and not admitting anything, there was the chance that the Garda slipped up in some way and the case could get thrown out on a technicality. There was no benefit for him in admitting anything and if he pointed the finger at Boy B he would be admitting it. Also, it would have opened him up to further questioning about it all being planned and the level of planning. He took his chances for his own benefit. Thankfully the Garda were impeccable in all they did.

Sounds like he had that advice from someone, I know we can’t talk about any rumours on the thread. But if the rumours are true.... maybe someone close to him told him to keep quiet.

 

[Frizby]

Sounds like he had that advice from someone, I know we can’t talk about any rumours on the thread. But if the rumours are true.... maybe someone close to him told him to keep quiet.

My thoughts exactly and remember there are no real brownie points in admitting guilt in a murder case in Ireland, sentence is mandatory regardless however no precedent on Child killers.

 

[rodyarodya]

My thoughts exactly and remember there are no real brownie points in admitting guilt in a murder case in Ireland, sentence is mandatory regardless however no precedent on Child killers.

Yup, totally. I was thinking of it more from the perspective of being a teenager in that scenario; how he didn't fold, even with Boy B giving him up. But as you and Kiki infer, his counsel was good. Still, it's another thing being told not to say anything and another then doing it.

 

[Charlot123]

I wonder why Ana’s mom got so concerned when she heard that boy B had invited Ana out? Did she suspect Ana was had a crush on boy A? Did Ana tell her? Ana’s dad clearly was unaware, but what about her mom? She probably knew boy B was not Ana’s interest, but she must have known the two boys were friends.. what did she know about boy A to get so scared? Did he have a bad reputation, I wonder? Or just maternal instinct?

 

[Charlot123]

Yup, totally. I was thinking of it more from the perspective of being a teenager in that scenario; how he didn't fold, even with Boy B giving him up. But as you and Kiki infer, his counsel was good. Still, it's another thing being told not to say anything and another then doing it.

I was trying to find the article - the account of boy B - and could not. Maybe they are trying to spare Ana’s family of the gruesome details. But I remember when boy B described boy A flipping Ana, he mentioned something about his eyes being empty.

I wonder if boy A dissociates like some killers do, and this is why he is able to keep silent.

 

[Kiranerys]

Yep same. The thought of him dressed in his zombie mask, hood up, gloves and knee pads on, just waiting in that dark room for her to walk in. I wonder if he was hiding behind the door or something. It’s honestly like something out of a horror movie. To think it happened at 5.30pm too, broad daylight, everyone driving home from work and such evil was happening so close by.
Yeah I thought the same about the white plank. I wonder if they ever found the plank he was talking about and examined it? I doubt it cause I’m sure the forensic team didn’t even test the rock covered in blood and hair until mid way through the trial. Which I found so odd!!
I know, why didn’t he try and defend himself when he knew his mate was putting all the blame on him? You would think he would at least try to implicate boy B, if he was going to get sent to jail for it you would think he would want his mate to go down too? They were in on it together after all.. I can’t work it out.

I'm guessing that his parents or solicitor advised him to say nothing,no matter what,if he opened his mouth to implicate boy b then he has to admit to being there and being at the very least complicit.
I think they were all working on the assumption there was no evidence,that's why he was so shocked they found Ana's blood on his shoes,because he thought his mammy had taken care of his clothes and didnt realise her blood was on his boots,and at 13 theres every chance he didnt know about DNA from semen(I know,sounds familiar) could incriminate him. JMO