OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[RAISINISBACK]

Correct. The court email address. Thank you.

IIRC Mittens posted them on here. Some on here questioned their authenticity even though they had the Pike County Court Clerks stamp on each page. The issue went to the mods to decide. IDK if we have gotten an answer back from the mods on whether they can be posted on here or not. So my suggestion for those whose questioned the authenticity of the documents Mittens posted would be to drive to the Pike County Ohio Court Clerks office and ask for a copy of them in person.

As for myself I live too far away and would be too busy or too lazy to obtain them myself so I am fine with what Mittens posted.

JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

I also think this was why they finally put the GPS on JM's truck.

That way, if one of "JM's supposed text messages" consistently pinged in a different location than the GPS location on JM's truck, they could figure out it was not really JM himself sending the incriminating texts.

JM's phone is in evidence.

JMO,MOO, etc.

Oh, clever. Good guess. If so, it was terrible to put that public pressure and exposure on JM. Cost him a lot of money, time lost from work, etc.

It was around that time the investigation changed direction and the Wagners began preparing in earnest to get out of town. Something tipped off LE.

My theory is JM either knew or figured out who killed his family and thought LE was taking waaay too long to catch them. So he thought he would take justice in his own hands and LE was afraid he was gonna screw up the case before LE had enough evidence. JM and BW may have been friends once but I think that friendship definitely ended on 4/22/16. JMO.

Either that or they heard W4 was trying to get the hell out of Dodge and thought JM would help them and LE decided he could lead LE to the W4. But for that theory to work we would have to assume JM didn’t know W4 was involved and I seriously doubt that. So my first theory is what I’m going with. Again jmo.

 

[IType]

I don't think that you're opinion is invalid or outdated. We do not know the family dynamics within the W4. What we see on the outside, isn't always what is so, within the home.

I personally have not decided who I think was at the scenes, and who was not. However, imo, AW did not appear, to me, at the time of the murders, to be in the physical shape that it would take, to accomplish something that would be so physically demanding, and to accomplish it in such a short amount of time. Maybe she was the driver, and G4 stayed home with the babies? Maybe she's light on her feet? I've a hard time seeing G3 lumbering around in a single wide, though, w/o waking everyone, too, fwiw. I sometimes think there were only two there that night. I think of my husband and myself, dragging bodies, taking apart equipment in the dark, dashing from house to house, and I'd be too tired to commit the crime, before I ever got started (and we're not too far off from AW/G3's ages and lead fairly active lives, so I'm not being ageist).

We have examples over the past three years that females, just narrowing down to those who were touched by this case, in that region, are no shrinking violets. So it wouldn't surprise me if AW was there, but it also wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't, but, until more comes out, I'm still not set on who was there and how the scene played out that night.

I agree about being unsure who I think was/was not at the various crime scenes and what role each of them played before, during and after the murders. Every time I think of a possible scenario or another poster mentions a possible scenario, there always seem to be very good reasons why and why not those ideas sound logical/illogical. So frustrating.

(BBM in your post above) I, myself, have wondered if Angela was the driver and GW4 was at home with the kids and, if that were the case, would that possibly be why GW4 was so "vocal" in the revenge conversations after the murders. Was his line of thinking that, since he didn't actually shoot anyone, he wasn't responsible for the murders...and he wanted to make it very clear that he would try to take revenge on anyone, even his own family members, who tried to get him convicted for murder if he didn't actually shoot anyone?

I know that's not how the system works, because if he kept the kids with the knowledge that the others were committing murder he is still guilty of murder in the eyes of the law.....but was GW4 thinking he couldn't be held responsible if he didn't pull a trigger? JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

I think they were already onto them before the GPS.

They interviewed JW on May 25, 2016, BW on September 9, 2016, AW on October 5, 2016, and JW on April 13, 2017.

I can understand the 1st JW interview because he was the father of the only child that was not there. If there was a fight (that could be a rumor) then I can understand BW interview. Why did they wait a month after BW to interview Grandma Angela? What prompted them to interview JW in April 2017?

My opinion, is that they were onto them earlier than we might think.

JMO. MOO.

I believe they had to interview him for a couple reasons: 1) it’s standard to interview those close to the murdered first as all are suspects until they can be eliminated (JW was father of SW and BW was possibly “employee” or co-worker of CR, 2) JW was going for permanent custody of SW. I also have to imagine they had more than plenty to interview. This is jmo.

 

[rsd1200]

If y'all are near Waverly take cover. Tornado Warning!

 

[Merrygirl]

BUBM
Maybe the wife/mother had no problem being there. I do not know the W4's family dynamics. In my home, no man TELLS me to do anything (and a female to do so would be laughable). It may be different in the W4s home though. I've known women who were submissive enough to not ask questions and would believe anything their spouse told them. Anything. Blindly. Sad.

I believe AW was the alpha female. BW (7th grade Ed) and the boys were used to being led by dominant females (AW & FW). So I think the guys would lose their confidence without AW being there, especially if she was the major planner. I also think she would want to be there cuz she probably thinks they will forget some detail that could lead back to them. Moo

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Yes, thank goodness it was just heavy downpours and wind. All I lost was a pool floatie, but plenty of leaves to clean out now.

 

[Loomis124]

I don't have the email of the Pike County Clerk, but you can probably find it online. Just a word of caution to avoid sending in too many requests for copies, or they'll stop sending them or make people show up in person to collect them. It's a small court and the clerk is probably very busy.

Right now we have access to pretty much everything that's been made public. There are links in the Media & Timelines thread for the copies the news media has made public - they're posted at ScribD. JMO, the only thing we don't have is the first discovery for AW.

D

 

[rsd1200]

I believe AW was the alpha female. BW (7th grade Ed) and the boys were used to being led by dominant females (AW & FW). So I think the guys would lose their confidence without AW being there, especially if she was the major planner. I also think she would want to be there cuz she probably thinks they will forget some detail that could lead back to them. Moo

The boys choosing a dominant type (or seemingly dominant) girlfriend/wife might support this theory. Both boys chose females who had very large personalities. I'd say living w/their mil was the last thing either of them wanted.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't have the email of the Pike County Clerk, but you can probably find it online. Just a word of caution to avoid sending in too many requests for copies, or they'll stop sending them or make people show up in person to collect them. It's a small court and the clerk is probably very busy.

Right now we have access to pretty much everything that's been made public. There are links in the Media & Timelines thread for the copies the news media has made public - they're posted at ScribD. JMO, the only thing we don't have is the first discovery for AW.

BBM
ScribD is the best!

 

[Betty P]

BBM
ScribD is the best!

Just a reminder to all, FW's final pre-trial hearing is still scheduled for Wednesday this week at 1:30 pm.

Someone remind me or I'll forget. I always get busy at the last minute.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

BBM
ScribD is the best!

BBM
ScribD is the best!

Scribd does serve a great purpose. That’s why I was so confused last week. Anyone can have a scribd account and upload documents there. And the documents I shared last week are legally sealed and stamped by the courts just as all the documents I’ve seen on scribd. I’ll be Sitting on my hands for the time being.

 

[Scakes]

If we take this one step further what would compel AW? If we look at how the W's live...living together as a unit long after grown men should have their own homes...moving as a unit all the way to Alaska and back...killing as a unit. It's still my humble opinion the W's have a twisted view of what family is. When one of the family members was threatened they all moved together. I think AW was as invested 110%. It's funny but if there is a weak link I think it's JW. There is something about him that screams mommy's boy.

I feel the exact same way about JW being a soft Momma’s boy. I believe that he grew up getting his way and when he didn’t, mommy stepped in to fix it for him. I think that AW and FW probably fought for the top spot and AW always came in second because the family needed FW to support them financially. I can see AW being a major part of the massacre. I have met women like her before, smiling Suzy Homemaker with a pocket full of tricks. I believe she was very hands on the night of, and even the planning. I can’t wait to see how this plays out in court.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

@Betty P the first thing that ever stood out to me on these discovery documents was the TWO 911 calls made from UHR. The public has only been made aware of one call, from BJM. Multiple media sources stated JM flagged down LE as they were on their way to CRsr’s responding to BJM’s call. Where’s that other 911 call come in at?

Dropbox - Angela Jo Carter Wagner - Simplify your life

 

[Betty P]

@Betty P the first thing that ever stood out to me on these discovery documents was the TWO 911 calls made from UHR. The public has only been made aware of one call, from BJM. Multiple media sources stated JM flagged down LE as they were on their way to CRsr’s responding to BJM’s call. Where’s that other 911 call come in at?

Dropbox - Angela Jo Carter Wagner - Simplify your life

Couple of things it could be:

• They're referring to the 911 call that DS made for KR and just mislabeled it

• Was BJM's first 911 call dropped or did she hang up and call again as she was running around to the mailbox and to Frankies?

• JM made a call after stepping out of DR's house - possible, but I think he had already heard the sirens when he was in the house. It was reported that just as he stepped out, he saw LE approaching and flagged a car down in DR's driveway.
• LM or his wife or someone else made a second 911 call because they thought LE were taking too long. LE did respond quickly, but this is a typical reaction for most people in an emergency situation - minutes seem like hours.

ETA: It will be interesting to hear the full 911 calls without editing. There have been other cases where outside experts listening to 911 audio are able to pick up additional info about what was happening at the crime scene. May or may not be relevant in this particular case. None of the people who made these calls are suspects, but are only victims/surviving family members.

 

[Berrybell]

The boys choosing a dominant type (or seemingly dominant) girlfriend/wife might support this theory. Both boys chose females who had very large personalities. I'd say living w/their mil was the last thing either of them wanted.

IMO I see this differently I think JW chose HR because she was young and had not grown into her independence yet and was easy to control and manipulate. GW4's wife i think may have also been more submissive at the beginning but become stronger and into her own at the end of the marriage. It appears to me that once both ladies became stronger and developed their own personalities they were punished in the worst ways possible. Of course this all just my opinion.

 

[Dudly]

I agree about being unsure who I think was/was not at the various crime scenes and what role each of them played before, during and after the murders. Every time I think of a possible scenario or another poster mentions a possible scenario, there always seem to be very good reasons why and why not those ideas sound logical/illogical. So frustrating.

(BBM in your post above) I, myself, have wondered if Angela was the driver and GW4 was at home with the kids and, if that were the case, would that possibly be why GW4 was so "vocal" in the revenge conversations after the murders. Was his line of thinking that, since he didn't actually shoot anyone, he wasn't responsible for the murders...and he wanted to make it very clear that he would try to take revenge on anyone, even his own family members, who tried to get him convicted for murder if he didn't actually shoot anyone?

I know that's not how the system works, because if he kept the kids with the knowledge that the others were committing murder he is still guilty of murder in the eyes of the law.....but was GW4 thinking he couldn't be held responsible if he didn't pull a trigger? JMO

So much of what happened is so illogical that trying to form a logical opinion on what went down and who did what is not possible in my opinion. Between that and a nearly total blackout on evidence, I do not think any logical explanation is possible...

 

[Berrybell]

@Betty P the first thing that ever stood out to me on these discovery documents was the TWO 911 calls made from UHR. The public has only been made aware of one call, from BJM. Multiple media sources stated JM flagged down LE as they were on their way to CRsr’s responding to BJM’s call. Where’s that other 911 call come in at?

Dropbox - Angela Jo Carter Wagner - Simplify your life

I too would like to hear the second 911 call and who made it.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Couple of things it could be:

• They're referring to the 911 call that DS made for KR and just mislabeled it

• Was BJM's first 911 call dropped or did she hang up and call again as she was running around to the mailbox and to Frankies?

• JM made a call after stepping out of DR's house - possible, but I think he had already heard the sirens when he was in the house. It was reported that just as he stepped out, he saw LE approaching and flagged a car down in DR's driveway.
• LM or his wife or someone else made a second 911 call because they thought LE were taking too long. LE did respond quickly, but this is a typical reaction for most people in an emergency situation - minutes seem like hours.

ETA: It will be interesting to hear the full 911 calls without editing. There have been other cases where outside experts listening to 911 audio are able to pick up additional info about what was happening at the crime scene. May or may not be relevant in this particular case. None of the people who made these calls are suspects, but are only victims/surviving family members.

Great points. I don’t believe it’s DS’ call from LFR @ KR’s place. Just because that call is listed there separately. Whatever the 2nd 911 call (or it could’ve been the first 911 call) was, it looks like it had to be edited and clarified to be able to hear it clearly. JMHO.

 

[Betty P]

I too would like to hear the second 911 call and who made it.

Yes. Oops, I was wrong about possible mislabeling of DS's call. It's listed separately there.
I wonder if the friends who were riding with BJM that morning also made a call?
For now, I'm going with LM or JM calling 911 because they were trying to hurry up LE or because JM found the third crime scene.

BJM's call also could have dropped. From many remarks of locals in the MSM, cell phone service is very spotty in the area.

Reminder: This discovery doc is from Jan 7, 2019. The news media apparently didn't report on it or otherwise make it available to the public.