Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[deugirtni]

Wouldn't it be ironic if BS's sister-in-law needed the money to pay the Shermans back?, imo.rbbm
April 5 2018
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman
.... (Sherman bankrolled another of his brother-in-law’s ventures, Martin Ross Group Inc., a jewellery company that filed for bankruptcy in 2015, owing $5.2 million to two Sherman-controlled companies.)"

RSBM

I am not sure about this - however I have understood that a bankruptcy means the debt is legally in the hands of the bankruptcy trustee, with any monies to be repaid by the 'bankrupt' allocated proportionately according to the amounts owed to each of the parties affected, and that in the end, the lender cannot ask for the debt to be repaid. In fact, I understood that it was actually illegal to do so... but not sure if same rules apply for a business bankruptcy?

Also, there is a link online which contains a bunch of documents related to this bankruptcy.. and it seems that the amount owed was much much greater than 5 million (it seems from what I can understand of it, that the 5 million is only for the 'secured debt', but does not begin to count the 'unsecured debt'). It also seems from what I can understand of some of these docs, that Sherman was willing to forego some of his portion of the trustee's repayment, so that some of the small debts could be repaid - again, another indication of Barry's generosity?).

Martin Ross Group Inc.

ETA: specifically, I was looking at the item under the heading: Creditors List, and then the docs under the heading: Documents Related to Plan of Compromise or Arrangement

 

[casesensitive]

Although the Sherman estate files were sealed and have not yet been released, we are assuming that reporter Donovan is correct about the details of BS's will, per his sources.

BS updated his 2013 will in March 2017, nine months before his death. There was to be a Living Trust to look after HS (apparently he still didn't want her to have free rein over his money) and on her death, the 4 children were to share equally in the estate. Apparently there were no charitable designations.

If those details are correct, BS certainly had a major change of mind or heart in his bequeath wishes in just 9 months. Essentially his existing will assured that after HS's death, his children would each be worth approximately a billion dollars.

The article quoted HS's close friends as saying she resented that BS gifted the kids sums of money but none to her. It appears that somebody or something significant changed BS's mind over the last 9 months of his life.

edited to correct initials


It will be interesting to see the complete details of his will.

Murdered billionaire Barry Sherman planned to give away or invest much of his fortune, sources say
While the Sherman estate is under court seal, sources have told the Star that nothing in the will indicates his stated wishes to leave money to charity. The will, sources say, establishes a “living trust” for Honey Sherman should Barry predecease her. Following Honey’s death, Barry’s will instructs the estate to be divided among his four children, with the trustees of his estate given discretion to provide money to extended family."

 

[WINDSOR]

Now things are getting interesting, with the speculation regarding BS's desires regarding his estate upon his death.
Seems to me though that BS had lots of access to lawyers if he wanted to change his will, in fact Apotex likely had staff lawyers in the same office as where BS worked. A simple phone call from Barry and a revised will would be drawn up within hours. If Barry hadn't revised his will since March 2017, maybe he was not really planning to. And all this talk of the his changing estate plans being the motivation for his death is just gossip.

In the real world, many of us like to talk about things we would like to do, but never really mean to.

 

[casesensitive]

BS's unfinished 1996 memoir manuscript revealed an intelligent,erudite, philosophical deep thinker. I feel that his value system, passions (hard work and making money) and outlook on life wouldn't change much over the next 20 years. But I sense that something significant may have happened within the 9 months leading up to his murder--something that changed his mind about his distribution of his estate.

It might have been related to the Winter cousins' lawsuit. He realized that all the millions he gave to them meant nothing. Maybe he reflected on and worried that his own children would just feel entitled to his inheritance, and wouldn't follow his and Honey's duty to give back to the community, which was obviously very important to B and H.

Irrespective of his plans to possibly change his will, there is no way that one (or more) of his kids orchestrated that horrific death of their parents. MOO

 

[JayFriend]

I don't have my 'thing' set to send emails whenever there is a new post in a thread I'm watching, however I'm wondering if it perhaps only emails the first time one has missed/not seen one post, and then not again until one goes and looks at the thread, and then it starts over again... so therefore, possible that if one doesn't go and read the post right away when notified of a new post, and instead leave it for a few hours or days, depending on amount of activity in a given thread at the time, one could end up missing pages and pages?

I have email updates set for this thread and it's working right now. Maybe whenever the thread is too big and a new one is started that I'm not getting an update.

 

[Tighthead]

Now things are getting interesting, with the speculation regarding BS's desires regarding his estate upon his death.
Seems to me though that BS had lots of access to lawyers if he wanted to change his will, in fact Apotex likely had staff lawyers in the same office as where BS worked. A simple phone call from Barry and a revised will would be drawn up within hours. If Barry hadn't revised his will since March 2017, maybe he was not really planning to. And all this talk of the his changing estate plans being the motivation for his death is just gossip.

In the real world, many of us like to talk about things we would like to do, but never really mean to.

Apotex lawyers would likely be IP or commercial specialists. If you are drafting a will for a billion dollar estate with trust provisions you would need to be current and expert in that field. They would also not be capable of properly advising Barry.

The retainer and privilege may also be problematic. They are not in private practice.

 

[ldlager]

BS's unfinished 1996 memoir manuscript revealed an intelligent,erudite, philosophical deep thinker. I feel that his value system, passions (hard work and making money) and outlook on life wouldn't change much over the next 20 years. But I sense that something significant may have happened within the 9 months leading up to his murder--something that changed his mind about his distribution of his estate.

It might have been related to the Winter cousins' lawsuit. He realized that all the millions he gave to them meant nothing. Maybe he reflected on and worried that his own children would just feel entitled to his inheritance, and wouldn't follow his and Honey's duty to give back to the community, which was obviously very important to B and H.

Irrespective of his plans to possibly change his will, there is no way that one (or more) of his kids orchestrated that horrific death of their parents. MOO

Perhaps. But the kids also have partners, spouses, other relatives, etc. It would be most interesting to see which of the kids if any weren’t in favour of hiring Greenspan. I would hate to think they were involved directly, but frankly they did stand to gain the most financially from these murders and I am sure LE is/has investigated this avenue accordingly.

 

[human]

Warren Buffet was an inspiration to Barry. Apparently Warren lives in a very very modest home.

He is only leaving some kind of small amount to his children. Not sure what that means

So the kids may have not got a lot. A lot to me perhaps, but in the scheme of things, maybe not so much to them

 

[casesensitive]

Perhaps. But the kids also have partners, spouses, other relatives, etc. It would be most interesting to see which of the kids if any weren’t in favour of hiring Greenspan. I would hate to think they were involved directly, but frankly they did stand to gain the most financially from these murders and I am sure LE is/has investigated this avenue accordingly.

I agree, I'm sure LE investigated all family members. Wouldn't it be easier for a greedy person to kill them and stage a home invasion or botched robbery? Faking a murder/suicide scenario which involved gruesome deaths seems over the top. jmo

 

[rickcross]

Interesting that he would gift different amounts to each of his children.

 

[dotr]

June 24 2019
RADIO.
Police are still investigating the case of Barry and Honey Sherman's deaths. - Kelly Cutrara - Omny.fm
"Kelly is joined by Kevin Donovan, Chief Investigative Reporter for the Toronto Star, to discuss the latest on the Barry and Honey Sherman investigation."

 

[WINDSOR]

Warren Buffet was an inspiration to Barry. Apparently Warren lives in a very very modest home.

He is only leaving some kind of small amount to his children. Not sure what that means

So the kids may have not got a lot. A lot to me perhaps, but in the scheme of things, maybe not so much to them

The reason Buffet is 'only leaving ...small amount' is that he has provided very generously for them while he has been alive. I learned this from reading his autobiography. His children will never want for anything.

 

[human]

The reason Buffet is 'only leaving ...small amount' is that he has provided very generously for them while he has been alive. I learned this from reading his autobiography. His children will never want for anything.

Exactly. I imagine the Sherman children are just fine and would not benefit that greatly from the death then

 

[dotr]

Fwiw..
Unrelated to this case despite the shared Winter name, posting this recent article as it pertains to the importance of establishing a couple's order of deaths in an inheritance battle.
The case is considered "unusual" will keep an eye out for the findings.

Family of couple locked in £300,000 inheritance battle as they ask judge to decide who died first | Daily Mail Online

• "Anna Winter and Deborah Cutler in High Court to fight over a house and cash
• John Scarle, 79, and his wife Ann, 69, were both found dead in October 2016
• Their step-children want judge to decide who died first in rare inheritance fight
• Case law not used since the 1950s and used to settle disputes in Blitz deaths "
• "
  
• The highly unusual case is the first of its kind in the UK since the 1950s - but were more common during the Second World War to settle inheritance disputes when families were all killed by the same bomb during the London Blitz."
  
• 
  
  The rare case centres on which of their parents died first - that will influence where the £300,000 inheritance ends up
• 
  
• Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

"One of the intricacies of estate law is the “simultaneous death” situation, in which spouses die at roughly the same time (car and airplane accidents being the most common examples)."
"Sources have told the Star that Barry’s will left everything to Honey if he died first; if she predeceased him, it divided the estimated $5-billion estate and control of Apotex between their four children, aged 28 to 43.

In the hearing before Dunphy, Youdan said simply, “We do not know the order of death.” Due to the sealed file, the Star lacks the information to understand the relevance of this statement. However, death order is significant because, if Barry died first, his estate would flow to Honey, whose lack of a will could complicate how it is dealt with."

 

[Tighthead]

Fwiw..
Unrelated to this case despite the shared Winter name, posting this recent article as it pertains to the importance of establishing a couple's order of deaths in an inheritance battle.
The case is considered "unusual" will keep an eye out for the findings.

Family of couple locked in £300,000 inheritance battle as they ask judge to decide who died first | Daily Mail Online

• "Anna Winter and Deborah Cutler in High Court to fight over a house and cash
• John Scarle, 79, and his wife Ann, 69, were both found dead in October 2016
• Their step-children want judge to decide who died first in rare inheritance fight
• Case law not used since the 1950s and used to settle disputes in Blitz deaths "
• "
  
• The highly unusual case is the first of its kind in the UK since the 1950s - but were more common during the Second World War to settle inheritance disputes when families were all killed by the same bomb during the London Blitz."
  
• 
  
  The rare case centres on which of their parents died first - that will influence where the £300,000 inheritance ends up
• 
  
• Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

"One of the intricacies of estate law is the “simultaneous death” situation, in which spouses die at roughly the same time (car and airplane accidents being the most common examples)."
"Sources have told the Star that Barry’s will left everything to Honey if he died first; if she predeceased him, it divided the estimated $5-billion estate and control of Apotex between their four children, aged 28 to 43.

In the hearing before Dunphy, Youdan said simply, “We do not know the order of death.” Due to the sealed file, the Star lacks the information to understand the relevance of this statement. However, death order is significant because, if Barry died first, his estate would flow to Honey, whose lack of a will could complicate how it is dealt with."

I would be stunned if Barry’s will didn’t provide that Honey had to survive him for 30 days. That is a boilerplate provision.

Also, in Ontario, if two people die at the same time or in circumstances rendering it uncertain which of them survived the other, the property of each person shall be disposed of as if he or she had survived the other per statute.

As for Barry giving some of his estate away, I suspect some is in family trusts securing significant legacies and financial security for the children beyond what they have already received.

Furthermore if Barry predeceased Honey (which seems unlikely based on rumour) and she died intestate as has been reported, the estate would still flow to the four children regardless. The biggest difference is that Barry’s named trustees would not necessarily have control. And again, this assumes no 30 day survival clause, which would be highly, highly unusual.

 

[ldlager]

Exactly. I imagine the Sherman children are just fine and would not benefit that greatly from the death then

Another group of individuals who could benefit financially from the murders are any "non Barry" shareholders of Apotex (eg certain management employees). I don't know the terms of any shares they owned, or the rights attached thereto. But if they could only sell those shares at a certain future date; or to a certain party (e.g. Barry) or under certain conditions (like a sale of Apotex), then these shares would likely be illiquid, and perhaps couldn't even be pledged as collateral for personal loans, etc. By Barry being deceased, it would be fairly evident that the company would eventually be sold, thereby probably enabling these shareholders to monetize these shares. I wonder if Mr. Desai owned any shares in Apotex, and whether he still owns these shares?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

What if the killer is an extended family member and is named in Honey’s will. (or believed they were). If her children suspect this person, they may wish to protect the will.

If the killers staged it to appear to be a m/s, maybe they expected all of Barry’s wealth to shift to Honey.

With Barry as the murderer, the killer would be in a more sympathetic position to make a wrongful death claim, or a demand on the estate.

 

[Tighthead]

Who would be able to make a wrongful death claim outside of the children? Can you walk me through your thinking on that?

Outside of a bequest, who would be in position to put a demand on the estate? It’s hard to imagine significant creditors.

With the amount of money involved, and lawyers, I can’t imagine the children being complicit in hiding a will and perpetrating a fraud upon the court.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Who would be able to make a wrongful death claim outside of the children? Can you walk me through your thinking on that?

Outside of a bequest, who would be in position to put a demand on the estate? It’s hard to imagine significant creditors.

With the amount of money involved, and lawyers, I can’t imagine the children being complicit in hiding a will and perpetrating a fraud upon the court.

Mary Shechtman made a 300 million demand on the estate.

If this was made to look like a m/s, with B being the murderer...

As an example only: Honey’s sister Mary could claim loss of companionship, and financial hardship as Honey was her partner in real estate dealings. Honey suffered prior to death, that further impacts Mary’s suffering.

(I’m a lab tech, no legal knowledge or grasp of the subject beyond common knowledge.)

No, I’m not suggesting that anyone has defrauded the court. I said protect, I don’t mean cover or destroy. The efforts to seal the estate documents may be to protect the contents of Honey’s will.

 

[Tighthead]

Mary Shechtman made a 300 million demand on the estate.

If this was made to look like a m/s, with B being the murderer...

As an example only: Honey’s sister Mary could claim loss of companionship, and financial hardship as Honey was her partner in real estate dealings. Honey suffered prior to death, that further impacts Mary’s suffering.

(I’m a lab tech, no legal knowledge or grasp of the subject beyond common knowledge.)

No, I’m not suggesting that anyone has defrauded the court. I said protect, I don’t mean cover or destroy. The efforts to seal the estate documents may be to protect the contents of Honey’s will.

Has she actually made a legal claim?

Honey apparently promised the money.

Honey didn’t inherit from Barry. It was all a spousal trust. Her estate would not have the capacity or legal requirement to pay it.