Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #4

[bestill]

I know there is a lot of chatter about SB/SD/the sugar lifestyle. I wanted to clear up a few things as it is becoming more relevant to the case potentially.


First, a sugar lifestyle is NOT considered to be the same as sex work. Calling Kenzie, or any sugar baby, a sex worker is a misnomer and very problematic. There is a difference in terms of consent and agreed upon exchange. Calling anyone in the sugar lifestyle a “hooker,” “prostitute,” “escort,” or any term related to these is not appropriate. A sugar baby and the sugar lifestyle should really be considered a consensual exchange relationship.


An exchange relationship is pretty similar to a traditional relationship, but with a few understood and agreed upon exchanges. Typically for sugar babies this means engaging in consensual relationships with older men (or women but typically men). This does NOT always include sexual intercourse. It can include companionship, friendship, support, and/or accompanied with sexual behaviors. Just to be clear: sex is commonly NOT the driving force of these relationship (statistics put this at over 70% non sexual at statistical significance).


*If* we are going to discuss Kenzie and her participation in the sugar lifestyle, it should be done so as it if were her having a relationship with an older man. Nothing else. She is an adult. She entered relationships with consent and awareness. Nothing to this point indicates ANY sex work or even sexual deviance. She appears to have exchange based relationships. Which frankly many of us have to some degree. Any shaming or name calling, including calling her names of other sex working positions, should not be tolerated as there is ZERO evidence of Kenzie participating in any of that.


Sex workers often have someone that is their boss (slang we say pimp) that they report to and takes a cut of their income. Income often exchanged via sexual relations ONLY with no regard for emotional support or consideration. Sugar babies do not have this same structure. They do not work for anyone. They engage in this lifestyle for their own personal choice and walk away with their own exchanges without the need to cut anyone in. There is often emotional consideration and personal autonomy is retained. In Kenzie’s case, this is clearly demonstrated in her posted from twelve weeks ago. The emotional consideration was highly important to her and indicates she was not working with any boss/handler/pimp. This alone indicates she is not, and has not to our knowledge, been engaged in sex work.


I am happy to answer any questions about this lifestyle/relationship status/possible mentality but I will only do so if approached respectably for both Kenzie and the lifestyle.

Hi poppydarling. Thank you for your input. I do have a couple of questions. How safe do you think it is for a female to engage in this and how anonymous are the websites they use? From the female stand point I see a lot of vulnerability so am curious as to how they "vet" the arrangements.

 

[smalleagles]

I know there is a lot of chatter about SB/SD/the sugar lifestyle. I wanted to clear up a few things as it is becoming more relevant to the case potentially.


First, a sugar lifestyle is NOT considered to be the same as sex work. Calling Kenzie, or any sugar baby, a sex worker is a misnomer and very problematic. There is a difference in terms of consent and agreed upon exchange. Calling anyone in the sugar lifestyle a “hooker,” “prostitute,” “escort,” or any term related to these is not appropriate. A sugar baby and the sugar lifestyle should really be considered a consensual exchange relationship.


An exchange relationship is pretty similar to a traditional relationship, but with a few understood and agreed upon exchanges. Typically for sugar babies this means engaging in consensual relationships with older men (or women but typically men). This does NOT always include sexual intercourse. It can include companionship, friendship, support, and/or accompanied with sexual behaviors. Just to be clear: sex is commonly NOT the driving force of these relationship (statistics put this at over 70% non sexual at statistical significance).


*If* we are going to discuss Kenzie and her participation in the sugar lifestyle, it should be done so as it if were her having a relationship with an older man. Nothing else. She is an adult. She entered relationships with consent and awareness. Nothing to this point indicates ANY sex work or even sexual deviance. She appears to have exchange based relationships. Which frankly many of us have to some degree. Any shaming or name calling, including calling her names of other sex working positions, should not be tolerated as there is ZERO evidence of Kenzie participating in any of that.


Sex workers often have someone that is their boss (slang we say pimp) that they report to and takes a cut of their income. Income often exchanged via sexual relations ONLY with no regard for emotional support or consideration. Sugar babies do not have this same structure. They do not work for anyone. They engage in this lifestyle for their own personal choice and walk away with their own exchanges without the need to cut anyone in. There is often emotional consideration and personal autonomy is retained. In Kenzie’s case, this is clearly demonstrated in her posted from twelve weeks ago. The emotional consideration was highly important to her and indicates she was not working with any boss/handler/pimp. This alone indicates she is not, and has not to our knowledge, been engaged in sex work.


I am happy to answer any questions about this lifestyle/relationship status/possible mentality but I will only do so if approached respectably for both Kenzie and the lifestyle.

so much of this!!! thank you so much @poppydarling for sharing your expertise. As someone a little younger than Kenzie (a college student) I have many friends who have engaged in this kind of exchange/relationship, and it's really never thought of as out of the ordinary these days. It really has no shameful connotations, at least among the generation Kenzie and I are a part of.

 

[TristanP]

I know there is a lot of chatter about SB/SD/the sugar lifestyle. I wanted to clear up a few things as it is becoming more relevant to the case potentially.


First, a sugar lifestyle is NOT considered to be the same as sex work. Calling Kenzie, or any sugar baby, a sex worker is a misnomer and very problematic. There is a difference in terms of consent and agreed upon exchange. Calling anyone in the sugar lifestyle a “hooker,” “prostitute,” “escort,” or any term related to these is not appropriate. A sugar baby and the sugar lifestyle should really be considered a consensual exchange relationship.


An exchange relationship is pretty similar to a traditional relationship, but with a few understood and agreed upon exchanges. Typically for sugar babies this means engaging in consensual relationships with older men (or women but typically men). This does NOT always include sexual intercourse. It can include companionship, friendship, support, and/or accompanied with sexual behaviors. Just to be clear: sex is commonly NOT the driving force of these relationship (statistics put this at over 70% non sexual at statistical significance).


*If* we are going to discuss Kenzie and her participation in the sugar lifestyle, it should be done so as it if were her having a relationship with an older man. Nothing else. She is an adult. She entered relationships with consent and awareness. Nothing to this point indicates ANY sex work or even sexual deviance. She appears to have exchange based relationships. Which frankly many of us have to some degree. Any shaming or name calling, including calling her names of other sex working positions, should not be tolerated as there is ZERO evidence of Kenzie participating in any of that.


Sex workers often have someone that is their boss (slang we say pimp) that they report to and takes a cut of their income. Income often exchanged via sexual relations ONLY with no regard for emotional support or consideration. Sugar babies do not have this same structure. They do not work for anyone. They engage in this lifestyle for their own personal choice and walk away with their own exchanges without the need to cut anyone in. There is often emotional consideration and personal autonomy is retained. In Kenzie’s case, this is clearly demonstrated in her posted from twelve weeks ago. The emotional consideration was highly important to her and indicates she was not working with any boss/handler/pimp. This alone indicates she is not, and has not to our knowledge, been engaged in sex work.


I am happy to answer any questions about this lifestyle/relationship status/possible mentality but I will only do so if approached respectably for both Kenzie and the lifestyle.

Personally I think a relationship like this could be awesome, because expectations are pretty clear which isn’t always the case in relationships! But then I think that I’d have to be nice and give attention to another person and it exhausts me, so I stay single lol.

Kenzie seems to be doing exactly what is normal for a 23 year old young woman...figuring out what she wants in life. I just hope she will be able to return to finish figuring it out.

 

[wary]

The Lyft driver might have been preoccupied that night. Drop off girl at park, "have a nice night", sees her walk over to a car (sedan, truck, suv?), checks phone "oh someone else needs a ride", accepts the ride and is on his way, doesn't give Kenzie another thought. He may have given a vague description of a car "Maybe a Honda or Toyota. Maybe an Explorer or Escalade" Police can't really put out "maybes". IMO

I’m hoping that LE can check nearby cameras, cross-check when vehicles come in range of different cameras, and figure out which one stopped at the park. (In this day and age, why are security cameras so fuzzy!)

 

[ilovechili]

I'm still trying to figure out if she was writing finals or midterms. It is Spring / Summer session, most courses are condensed and run 6 weeks. An exam in mid-June is usually a final exam. Spring / Summer students then start another course or two in the Summer semester (July -August).

Only someone from the Nursing program could answer the question. Maybe it was a midterm for a 4 month practicum, and maybe it was a final exam for the Spring semester.

Regardless, she missed an important exam and she missed work, she didn't return home after a flight and - why did it take 3 days for anyone to sound the alarm? I don't understand that, unless this sort of thing happened before - where no one knew where she was but she turned up, so everyone waited a couple of days to do something.

I agree, pretty much why I wondered, why no alarm until a few days after her landing in Salt Lake. I also wondered if summer courses were not ending for her after that final(?) and she was possibly headed home for a longer period of time on the next trip she apparently already had booked in a few days. We just don't have much information on that or work hours, etc.

Jmo.

 

[mfmfan77]

I’m wondering if it might be someone who would have been able to recognize the cameras were dummy cameras, maybe.

I’m mainly put off by the park being the meeting place at 3 am. Why not an IHOP or a Walgreens parking lot? My impression is that the park was to provide anonymity which is why I find it so troubling.

I think the park was a convenient meeting spot for someone coming from the north. It seems to be right off an exit off of 15 (per Google maps) and it's easy access to get back on 15. IMO, this was chosen as the meeting-point because it was most convenient for the person meeting her

 

[gitana1]

Ooh something I know the answer to. I worked in law enforcement for many years but now am just a lowly secretary in investigations. I know when they are doing cell dump warrants, they have to send a separate warrant to each cell phone company and wait for them to respond. Sometimes it takes longer than it should to get them to send the info and then it's like 100's of pages to go thru for each one. Hope this helps.

It does. Thank you!

 

[heed101]

I know there is a lot of chatter about SB/SD/the sugar lifestyle. I wanted to clear up a few things as it is becoming more relevant to the case potentially.


First, a sugar lifestyle is NOT considered to be the same as sex work. Calling Kenzie, or any sugar baby, a sex worker is a misnomer and very problematic. There is a difference in terms of consent and agreed upon exchange. Calling anyone in the sugar lifestyle a “hooker,” “prostitute,” “escort,” or any term related to these is not appropriate. A sugar baby and the sugar lifestyle should really be considered a consensual exchange relationship.


An exchange relationship is pretty similar to a traditional relationship, but with a few understood and agreed upon exchanges. Typically for sugar babies this means engaging in consensual relationships with older men (or women but typically men). This does NOT always include sexual intercourse. It can include companionship, friendship, support, and/or accompanied with sexual behaviors. Just to be clear: sex is commonly NOT the driving force of these relationship (statistics put this at over 70% non sexual at statistical significance).


*If* we are going to discuss Kenzie and her participation in the sugar lifestyle, it should be done so as it if were her having a relationship with an older man. Nothing else. She is an adult. She entered relationships with consent and awareness. Nothing to this point indicates ANY sex work or even sexual deviance. She appears to have exchange based relationships. Which frankly many of us have to some degree. Any shaming or name calling, including calling her names of other sex working positions, should not be tolerated as there is ZERO evidence of Kenzie participating in any of that.


Sex workers often have someone that is their boss (slang we say pimp) that they report to and takes a cut of their income. Income often exchanged via sexual relations ONLY with no regard for emotional support or consideration. Sugar babies do not have this same structure. They do not work for anyone. They engage in this lifestyle for their own personal choice and walk away with their own exchanges without the need to cut anyone in. There is often emotional consideration and personal autonomy is retained. In Kenzie’s case, this is clearly demonstrated in her posted from twelve weeks ago. The emotional consideration was highly important to her and indicates she was not working with any boss/handler/pimp. This alone indicates she is not, and has not to our knowledge, been engaged in sex work.


I am happy to answer any questions about this lifestyle/relationship status/possible mentality but I will only do so if approached respectably for both Kenzie and the lifestyle.

How does the girl know if the man actually has $$ ?..or he's just a creep who pretends he is rich..sounds scary.

 

[PommyMommy]

Does anyone know where she lived in relation to the park? I.e., if someone was going to drive her home, does it make sense logistically? TIA.

It has been reported that her apartment is in/near Trolley Square, Salt Lake City. Hatch Park is about 8.5 miles north in North Salt Lake. Google Maps

 

[wary]

Thanks!

Honestly, I can't believe I haven't been here before, it's incredible!

Welcome! I’m very sorry for the situation that brought you here.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I know there is a lot of chatter about SB/SD/the sugar lifestyle. I wanted to clear up a few things as it is becoming more relevant to the case potentially.


First, a sugar lifestyle is NOT considered to be the same as sex work. Calling Kenzie, or any sugar baby, a sex worker is a misnomer and very problematic. There is a difference in terms of consent and agreed upon exchange. Calling anyone in the sugar lifestyle a “hooker,” “prostitute,” “escort,” or any term related to these is not appropriate. A sugar baby and the sugar lifestyle should really be considered a consensual exchange relationship.


An exchange relationship is pretty similar to a traditional relationship, but with a few understood and agreed upon exchanges. Typically for sugar babies this means engaging in consensual relationships with older men (or women but typically men). This does NOT always include sexual intercourse. It can include companionship, friendship, support, and/or accompanied with sexual behaviors. Just to be clear: sex is commonly NOT the driving force of these relationship (statistics put this at over 70% non sexual at statistical significance).


*If* we are going to discuss Kenzie and her participation in the sugar lifestyle, it should be done so as it if were her having a relationship with an older man. Nothing else. She is an adult. She entered relationships with consent and awareness. Nothing to this point indicates ANY sex work or even sexual deviance. She appears to have exchange based relationships. Which frankly many of us have to some degree. Any shaming or name calling, including calling her names of other sex working positions, should not be tolerated as there is ZERO evidence of Kenzie participating in any of that.


Sex workers often have someone that is their boss (slang we say pimp) that they report to and takes a cut of their income. Income often exchanged via sexual relations ONLY with no regard for emotional support or consideration. Sugar babies do not have this same structure. They do not work for anyone. They engage in this lifestyle for their own personal choice and walk away with their own exchanges without the need to cut anyone in. There is often emotional consideration and personal autonomy is retained. In Kenzie’s case, this is clearly demonstrated in her posted from twelve weeks ago. The emotional consideration was highly important to her and indicates she was not working with any boss/handler/pimp. This alone indicates she is not, and has not to our knowledge, been engaged in sex work.


I am happy to answer any questions about this lifestyle/relationship status/possible mentality but I will only do so if approached respectably for both Kenzie and the lifestyle.

Thank you for taking the time to become verified poppydarling! Very interesting information!

 

[DD8]

...or the meeting was legit but we are looking for 2 bodies ...not 1

I keep thinking this. Could there have been a car accident that has not been discovered yet?

 

[Juvenile]

Got it. Thanks!

"The family is staying in California for now." At the 9:50 mark.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=678580945977497

This really surprises me since it seems like they are a close family. I don’t know any parents with the means that wouldn’t go help find their daughter. Not to victim blame, but this seems odd unless they have information as to there being no reason to worry/help.

 

[poppydarling]

Hi poppydarling. Thank you for your input. I do have a couple of questions. How safe do you think it is for a female to engage in this and how anonymous are the websites they use? From the female stand point I see a lot of vulnerability so am curious as to how they "vet" the arrangements.

Thanks for the question. Generally speaking, it is safe. If this case does end up being in regard to her sugar lifestyle it would be the outlier. There are hundreds of thousands of individuals in the US alone who engage in the sugar lifestyle/exchange relationship and there quantity of victimization is fairly low. Especially compared to other relationship types. Being a young female certainly increases her risk- but the higher risk would be the time of day and location, plus her overall mental stability following trauma way above her sugar lifestyle.

 

[EmilyVan]

I know there is a lot of chatter about SB/SD/the sugar lifestyle. I wanted to clear up a few things as it is becoming more relevant to the case potentially.


First, a sugar lifestyle is NOT considered to be the same as sex work. Calling Kenzie, or any sugar baby, a sex worker is a misnomer and very problematic. There is a difference in terms of consent and agreed upon exchange. Calling anyone in the sugar lifestyle a “hooker,” “prostitute,” “escort,” or any term related to these is not appropriate. A sugar baby and the sugar lifestyle should really be considered a consensual exchange relationship.


An exchange relationship is pretty similar to a traditional relationship, but with a few understood and agreed upon exchanges. Typically for sugar babies this means engaging in consensual relationships with older men (or women but typically men). This does NOT always include sexual intercourse. It can include companionship, friendship, support, and/or accompanied with sexual behaviors. Just to be clear: sex is commonly NOT the driving force of these relationship (statistics put this at over 70% non sexual at statistical significance).


*If* we are going to discuss Kenzie and her participation in the sugar lifestyle, it should be done so as it if were her having a relationship with an older man. Nothing else. She is an adult. She entered relationships with consent and awareness. Nothing to this point indicates ANY sex work or even sexual deviance. She appears to have exchange based relationships. Which frankly many of us have to some degree. Any shaming or name calling, including calling her names of other sex working positions, should not be tolerated as there is ZERO evidence of Kenzie participating in any of that.


Sex workers often have someone that is their boss (slang we say pimp) that they report to and takes a cut of their income. Income often exchanged via sexual relations ONLY with no regard for emotional support or consideration. Sugar babies do not have this same structure. They do not work for anyone. They engage in this lifestyle for their own personal choice and walk away with their own exchanges without the need to cut anyone in. There is often emotional consideration and personal autonomy is retained. In Kenzie’s case, this is clearly demonstrated in her posted from twelve weeks ago. The emotional consideration was highly important to her and indicates she was not working with any boss/handler/pimp. This alone indicates she is not, and has not to our knowledge, been engaged in sex work.


I am happy to answer any questions about this lifestyle/relationship status/possible mentality but I will only do so if approached respectably for both Kenzie and the lifestyle.

Thank you SO much taking the time to become Verified. I have so much respect for what you wrote and agree 100%. ...off to start a fan club for you right now...

 

[smalleagles]

Thank you SO much taking the time to become Verified. I have so much respect for what you wrote and agree 100%. ...off to start a fan club for you right now...

haha, have to second this!

 

[LaborDayRN]

so much of this!!! thank you so much @poppydarling for sharing your expertise. As someone a little younger than Kenzie (a college student) I have many friends who have engaged in this kind of exchange/relationship, and it's really never thought of as out of the ordinary these days. It really has no shameful connotations, at least among the generation Kenzie and I are a part of.

I think it was last year that I watched an episode of "This is Life with Lisa Ling" on this very subject. It was very well done and quite informative.

 

[poppydarling]

How does the girl know if the man actually has $$ ?..or he's just a creep who pretends he is rich..sounds scary.

Good question. Just like most “traditional” relationship, sugar relationships do not exist in a vacuum. The girl (or boy- while more rare these do occur to all gendered combinations and sexual orientations) is not likely to immediate jump into exchanging goods for goods (essentially). She will vet the man, determine through small exchanges if he is legitimate or not. Then proceed from there.

It may be easier to think in terms of any online dating relationship. We like to think we are not being catfishes prior to meeting someone in real life...so we talk to them. Build some bonds, commonalities. Then maybe we ask for a selfie with them holding something they can’t photoshop. Maybe we ask to FaceTime. Then we met in person. The same rules apply to sugar relationships. It’s just nontraditional in structure.

 

[otto]

Yeah, but my point is that your average person probably wouldn’t know.

The person who picked her up for instance.

True, but if someone knew about the cameras, it would be someone in the planning department, the parks department and the police department. In fact, it could be something that is generally knows. Alternatively, the person that picked Kenzie up may have parked away from the cameras - so it makes no difference.

 

[klind55]

Got it. Thanks!

"The family is staying in California for now." At the 9:50 mark.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=678580945977497

I kept getting an error when I tried posting the video! Thanks for posting it!