Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #4

[poppydarling]

The problem with this is we are discussing it without the benefit of also discussing the corresponding photos, info and hashtags on her pvt account.

I've seen some of the cached info on her account and I'm not sure your premises are 100% accurate.

For what it is worth, I have been in communication with her verified friend @yellowmoose privately and believe I am informed about all aspects of her online engagement in this lifestyle.

 

[ilovechili]

I think these items are important:

The person she was meeting could have picked her up at the airport considering they had a vehicle and it wasn’t that far from the park. There’s a reason they didn’t pick her up, and the most obvious and logical reason is that they didn’t want their vehicle on security video.

The park didn’t have working cameras. This person appears to have been avoiding being seen on camera, but they met at the park with cameras...meaning they probably knew the cameras were fake or didn’t work.

I feel like figuring out who knew that info about the park’s cameras could be an important lead.

I am a person who could not tell you what houses or businesses or parks have cameras nor would I probably be the type who could easily identify one if I did look. The reason I do not know? Because I am not doing anything wrong, so I could care less if there are cameras or not quite honestly.

So I agree that if someone wanted to avoid airport security cameras but was willing to go to the park, they KNEW the cameras did not work or were fake. Who would know that? I sure wouldn't just by looking at them and apparently people on here could not tell when finding photos of them either.

It does seem logical that the person may have known this.

Jmo.

 

[crhedBngr]

I’m not convinced that anyone could know that those cameras weren’t working. I think this person got lucky.

Looking at that area, that park isn’t all that unreasonable a meeting spot.

It’s got an accessible parking lot, and it would be relatively easy to find.

I quite agree with this. Unfortunately, fake surveillance cameras are more commonplace than one might think.

 

[bestill]

Thanks for the question. Generally speaking, it is safe. If this case does end up being in regard to her sugar lifestyle it would be the outlier. There are hundreds of thousands of individuals in the US alone who engage in the sugar lifestyle/exchange relationship and there quantity of victimization is fairly low. Especially compared to other relationship types. Being a young female certainly increases her risk- but the higher risk would be the time of day and location, plus her overall mental stability following trauma way above her sugar lifestyle.

Do you think the sugar lifestyle has played into her missing? I guess for those of us who are just learning about this we see this as being a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a vulnerable person since it's anonymous.

 

[Gardenista]

For what it is worth, I have been in communication with her verified friend @yellowmoose privately and believe I am informed about all aspects of her online engagement in this lifestyle.

Going to alert this in case mods want to remove, but you don't find the hashtag #imdeadinside concerning?

 

[klind55]

Yeah, but my point is that your average person probably wouldn’t know.

The person who picked her up for instance.

The person who picked her up may not be the average person, we just don't know!

 

[poppydarling]

Do you think the sugar lifestyle has played into her missing? I guess for those of us who are just learning about this we see this as being a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a vulnerable person since it's anonymous.

In my opinion, it is possible someone she met through this lifestyle had played a role in her being missing. But that shouldn’t be confused with this lifestyle being a possibility she is missing. This isn’t, in my professional opinion, due to any sugar lifestyle participation, but more about someone she came into contact with. Just like not all people are bad, but it takes one bad person. Not all sugar daddies are bad, but one may be a bad person.

 

[Schmitz5100]

I agree with this. I’m thinking the meeting could have started out innocent and whatever happened as the night progresses took a turn for the worse. Could have been a terrible accident. A night of “partying” (I’ll use that term broadly) and something gone wrong.

First time posting on this case: What baffles me is how lucky the person who picked her up is. I mean he/she was ok with the Lyft driver seeing them. Chose a park with surveillance cameras ( unless he/she somehow knew they weren’t working ) that was close to a police station. I mean.....they took the risk of being questioned by a cop had a cop drove by and saw a random car at 3am at the park. I dunno. This makes me wonder if the intentional meet up was innocent enough and somehow escalated to something more nefarious. JMO.

t

 

[EmilyVan]

True, but if someone knew about the cameras, it would be someone in the planning department, the parks department and the police department. In fact, it could be something that is generally knows. Alternatively, the person that picked Kenzie up may have parked away from the cameras - so it makes no difference.

would this person likely do this again, do you think? perhaps he's just getting his feet wet?

(yes, I'm wondering if we have a serial predator or one in the making)

MOO

 

[liltexans]

I think it was last year that I watched an episode of "This is Life with Lisa Ling" on this very subject. It was very well done and quite informative.

I watched that episode as well. I was telling @Tricia about it. It was a very interesting episode.

 

[calo44]

@poppydarling,

You had posted this comment earlier (below), and I was hoping you could clarify a little. What type of situation would come to mind where LE w/b in touch w the person but couldn’t release info for fear of hurting them or others? I’m just not following...

Your comment (from several threads ago):

Based on my knowledge from my profession- I am starting to lean towards LE knowing, or suspecting where she is or at least who she was with.

I know we all think the Lyft ride was legit- but it’s possible LE doesn’t think that and don’t want to out the driver and play their cards just yet and Lyft is working with them.

It’s also possible, LE is in contact with ML but not prepared to disclose that due to her own safety or the safety of others yet. Her family may know which may explain their lack of urgency (seemingly, behind the scenes who knows).

I really think this isn’t voluntary but may not be foul play. In that grey area in between.

 

[shanadk]

My only question regarding the thought of another phone is ... why?

ML is in the park....driven by a total stranger....at three o clock in the morning.....with an oversized suitcase.
There are secrets here.
Where there are secrets.... sometimes there are burner phones.

 

[poppydarling]

@poppydarling,

You had posted this comment earlier (below), and I was hoping you could clarify a little. What type of situation would come to mind where LE w/b in touch w the person but couldn’t release info for fear of hurting them or others? I’m just not following...

Your comment (from several threads ago):

Based on my knowledge from my profession- I am starting to lean towards LE knowing, or suspecting where she is or at least who she was with.

I know we all think the Lyft ride was legit- but it’s possible LE doesn’t think that and don’t want to out the driver and play their cards just yet and Lyft is working with them.

It’s also possible, LE is in contact with ML but not prepared to disclose that due to her own safety or the safety of others yet. Her family may know which may explain their lack of urgency (seemingly, behind the scenes who knows).

I really think this isn’t voluntary but may not be foul play. In that grey area in between.

This comment I was referring to the possibility that she was not killed but was unsafe either because she is mentally unstable (or voicing self harming or suicidal thoughts to someone who in turn was trying to keep her safe by means of isolation and surveillance) or that LE knows who has her but is concerned that leaking that would put her in harms way.

This was prior to the presser.

 

[bestill]

Going to alert this in case mods want to remove, but you don't find the hashtag #imdeadinside concerning?

I missed this, where did that hashtag come from?

 

[ClockworkLemon]

I quite agree with this. Unfortunately, fake surveillance cameras are more commonplace than one might think.

Definitely, we had an issue in San Francisco on the BART public trains. A crime was committed on the train, there are cameras but when law enforcement went to retrieve the recording it was discovered that some of the cameras are fake. I believe it’s pretty common.

 

[Gardenista]

I missed this, where did that hashtag come from?

A photo she posted on her pvt IG

 

[otto]

I am going to try and tread lightly here because I know there are rules for this forum. None of what I am saying below comes from a place of disrespect. I am basing this on the evidence that has come to light.

The PI's comments that she appeared to be active on a social media website for younger women seeking older men the day before her disappearance seems like a potentially strong piece of evidence. Especially since we know police are putting a focus on the possibility that she had a second phone as well as their interest in her social media accounts.

As someone who has been involved in the online dating and hookup culture (and therefore passes no judgement whatsoever), I do know it is not uncommon to start to feel a sense of security with someone without actually meeting them in person. Based on the numerous catfish stories we know others are susceptible to this as well. I acknowledge people's belief that she would not meet with someone she did not already know in the middle of the night and in a park of all places. I think her state of mind after her grandmother's passing may have made her more susceptible to making a poor decision though. Was this individual offering her comfort via social media for days prior to the meeting? Did she feel they had developed a connection in her time of need while he was actually manipulating her?

PI's comments about not knowing who the person on the other side of these online conversations is so true. We never know what a person's true intent may be. This stands out to me because immediately after the press conference on Monday the local news station commented on Salt Lake police's efforts to address the growing problem with human trafficking in the city.

I am hoping and praying for ML and her family and her safe return home.

Online dating and Tinder (or other dating apps) are very common and very popular. They are viewed as safe and part of normal social culture. My son (early 20s) recently had a Tinder date with a young woman. They met at a bar. She pretended to speak French. After 15 minutes, she asked if he liked double dates. Then another guy showed up and wanted to know what was going on. My son explained that he just met the girl. She wasn't French, she was pretending. Funny story after the fact.

I agree that dating apps can be very dangerous and very deceptive, but the majority view the apps as a socially normal alternative to meeting people in other ways.

 

[thor87]

Good question. Just like most “traditional” relationship, sugar relationships do not exist in a vacuum. The girl (or boy- while more rare these do occur to all gendered combinations and sexual orientations) is not likely to immediate jump into exchanging goods for goods (essentially). She will vet the man, determine through small exchanges if he is legitimate or not. Then proceed from there.

It may be easier to think in terms of any online dating relationship. We like to think we are not being catfishes prior to meeting someone in real life...so we talk to them. Build some bonds, commonalities. Then maybe we ask for a selfie with them holding something they can’t photoshop. Maybe we ask to FaceTime. Then we met in person. The same rules apply to sugar relationships. It’s just nontraditional in structure.

Not to belabor this point @poppydarling, but do you think people with nefarious intent may gravitate more toward using a "sugar baby" dating site over a traditional dating website? Do you think they may see these men or women as better targets? Maybe because they are potentially in need of money? Or...because the "sugar baby" would potentially allow for a little more anonymity if they were to indicate they could not reveal too much about themselves because the are rich, powerful, influential, etc.?

 

[MassGuy]

Definitely, we had an issue in San Francisco on the BART public trains. A crime was committed on the train, there are cameras but when law enforcement went to retrieve the recording it was discovered that some of the cameras are fake. I believe it’s pretty common.

Yeah, if you’ve ever watched that show “See No Evil” on ID Discovery, this sort of thing happens in every case they air.

Cameras don’t work, are of poor quality, or aren’t oriented correctly.

The workaround is to find working cameras that did capture something, which is certainly being attempted here.

 

[bestill]

In my opinion, it is possible someone she met through this lifestyle had played a role in her being missing. But that shouldn’t be confused with this lifestyle being a possibility she is missing. This isn’t, in my professional opinion, due to any sugar lifestyle participation, but more about someone she came into contact with. Just like not all people are bad, but it takes one bad person. Not all sugar daddies are bad, but one may be a bad person.

Just like any other dating site, an opportunist may have struck.