Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[ZoriahNZ]

Just when I think I have got the lay out of the route the girls took in my head, I read something else and get confused again. I thought that Abby and Libby made their way from the drop off point and headed to the bridge from the South West side. They then crossed the bridge to North East end and that is where BG forced them down the hill. From there they somehow got across the creek and ended up in woods near the cemetery. Could someone put me straight please?

The end of the bridge closest to the trail and drop off point is the NW side. The end of the bridge Libby and Abby were confronted by the suspect is the SE side.

 

[FinePrint]

Not sure if this was posted yet but there is a Paul Etter thread now:
ACTIVE SEARCH - IN: Paul Etter Wanted for Kidnapping, Tippecanoe County, 22 June 2019

 

[rosesfromangels]

<modsnipped quoted post and response>
One case, GSK, involved an ex-cop, and several other ones, security officers, so statistically it is not out of the realm of possibility.

We need a good profiler. Our POIs vary from *advertiser censored*-obsessed loners to people in «people's» professions to junkies to truck drivers. I think a decent profiler is much needed.

I think the thread has done a good job of coming up with a decent profile, aided by the little we know from LE.

Here's what I've gathered on the thread. Everyone please jump in and correct, add, or delete. Let's see where we end up.

18-24 year old
Student
No school that day
Mentality of serial killer - no empathy, low emotional response
Solid build except skinny legs
Agile, knew that bridge well and navigated it quickly; seems athletic
Voice had a weird combination of familiar* and authority
*Using the term "guys" is a friendly term you use with a group you know, or a nice way to suggest you could be friendly. (Such as hey sister, hi Cousin, etc.)
Being able to manage two young teens (even with a gun) suggests some sort of training in LE, MP, etc.

That's my start. Everyone jump in! Feel free to pull it apart.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Thelastleg]

The end of the bridge closest to the trail and drop off point is the NW side. The end of the bridge Libby and Abby were confronted by the suspect is the SE side.

View attachment 190700

Thank you. Would you believe the map that I had been using as a reference had the wrong directions on the ends of the bridges. I have saved this one and it all makes perfect sense now.

 

[Imvp2]

Thank you. Would you believe the map that I had been using as a reference had the wrong directions on the ends of the bridges. I have saved this one and it all makes perfect sense now.

Yes, this map is really good. It makes me think the girls tried to make a run for it thru the creek, and away from BG. Perhaps that is how Libby's shoe came off?

 

[tresir2012]

This is how I’ve been leaning. The only thing I’d change is I think he might be on the younger end of the age range. This easily explains the following:

Why he’s at the bridge in the middle of the day - he’s out of school too.

His knowledge of the area currently not from visiting it as a kid - He goes there to hang out and knows what the terrain is currently like.

His knowledge of where the girls were - SC is HUGELY popular with younger people. He didn’t have to say anything to them or converse. He’d know from the pic.

The lack of sound during the initial encounter - the girls may have known him from SC, sporting events, siblings, just seeing him around. I’m not saying they were BFFs. They may not have even really liked him or did at one point and had a falling out, but I’d think they wouldn’t be as alarmed at a teen approaching them as they would if it was a middle aged creeper stranger following them.

Navigating the terrain would be a lot easier for a younger person (even if they were overweight) than it would be for a middle aged overweight person.

The hiding in plain sight comment - It’s a teen hang out. It wouldn’t be unusual to see a local teen there and if other teens saw him he wouldn’t really stand out. He could’ve told LE he was there earlier in the day and left before the girls got there. Plus there were a lot of kids there that day per KG.

The “you never thought we’d change direction” comment - The first sketch released was a middle aged man not a kid. If it is a teen he probably did think he got away with it after seeing that sketch. I doubt everyone’s first thought was “a local teen had to have done this”. They were thinking an adult stranger. Actually LE probably was thinking a younger person initially because there were a lot of younger people there.

Just some thoughts I’ve been having. Sorry for all of the words and hijacking your post. Been thinking about this for a long time and it just all came out.

Edit: the hiding in plain sight bullet could be combined with the change in direction comment.

This could also explain why all the teens seemed to disappear from the trail. Do others know or suspect someone but are too scared to tell? Also "the man in black" may just have been invented by the perp and then other teens unwittingly spread the rumour. We have never heard LE confirm that. Also, a parent could be providing the alibi. AJMO.

 

[BLT HUEY GIRL]

There are many cases where the killer is right there in the community. While I believe it is still possible, I also believe this case is one where there is the possibility of the killer being 100 miles, 200 miles or more from Delphi right now. And that is because of the publicity. He can turn on CNN, morning shows on the main networks, other cable networks and follow news articles on the internet. If he does get off on what this has done, he can do it from the living room of an apartment in Indianapolis, Chicago or Louisville. While I like ISP's approach to the press conference, I believe he 'signed in' from his favorite chair far away.

Of course, if this is not solved over the next year or so and LE cuts back and the publicity dies down what is this bottom dweller of society going to do? Maybe he will screw up like BTK did.

He could be further away from the area but with this guy's ego and his belief that he has gotten away with these murders I can see him walking around the town mingling with the people, listening and talking with anyone who will discuss this horrific crime with him. He wants to stay in ground Zero where the buzz of his evil doing lingers everywhere even in the air he can smell it. I can't help but wonder if he isn't plotting a new plan to put into motion somewhere in the near future. Has he done this before? I agree that until he is caught no one can feel their children are safe. Not in your town or in anyone elses town. This kind of evil doesn't just go away after the urge has been satisfied. It continues to grow inside this monster he has to be stopped. My thoughts and well wishes go to these little girls families in hopes that somehow they might find peace and healing. To the rest of us. .. BE WATCHFUL BE AWARE AND ALWAYS KEEP EYES ON THE CHILDREN .

 

[tresir2012]

Who found the girls?

Volunteer searchers. Names have not been confirmed by LE/MSM.

 

[JnRyan]

BBM

What if this crime was not only not targeted, but not even planned at all...maybe it just unfolded as a random crime of opportunity? Maybe BG (a mentally unstable guy with a tramatic background and a quick fuse) had a really stressful morning (maybe an arguement with his parents, or got dumped by his girlfriend, or lost his job etc...) so decided to walk the trails to blow off steam. The bridge might be a place he went in his youth, and he might find comfort in being outdoors. He bundles up in a hoodie and jacket and maybe a hat and scarf, because its winter. He is not trying to disguise himself, just stay warm. He parks somewhere familiar at the CPS building (as locals often do) or cemetary. He is not worried about his car being spotted by anyone, as he has no criminal plans. He is carrying a gun and/or knife, not because he intends to harm anyone but because it is common to do so when hiking in rural Indiana. There is no 'kill kit'. At some point during his hike he spots Libby and Abby. For reasons unknown he is triggered by them and starts having dark impulses. Without even thinking he starts following them towards the bridge, creeping them. He enjoys following them, like a predator stalking its prey. It makes him feel powerful and in control and he forgets about his troubles. When he catches up with the girls at the end of the bridge there is nowhere else for him, or the girls, to go. He senses they are afraid, which feeds his ego. He can see that noone else is around. He impulsively pulls his weapon on the girls "Guys". They freeze out of fear. He then orders them "down the hill" to whisk them out of sight. He has no plan or contingency for if one/both run, but he is lucky they comply. At this point he can't believe what he has just done. He didn't mean for this to happen but knows there is no turning back now. He is in a panic but since he knows the trails well enough he is able to find a secluded spot to finalize his attack on the girls. He murders them quickly (to silence the witnesses) but possibly brutally and exits the area as fast as possible.

This is all JMO

Yes, I can see this scenario. Of course, if his history is mostly anger issues with others, then maybe he has no criminal history - that is, no finger prints or DNA in the system.

 

[sunshineray]

Just some thoughts on my profile, after reading many things, some not allowed to be talked about on WS and leaning heavily on what the ISP have said and done.

Killer is a mid to late 20's( but may look younger, which allows him more easy contact with teenagers) and is local.

I think he's employed somewhere in the surrounding area to Delphi. I think his job may afford him time away from his actual work address during the work day. (like a person who works for a place that needs to send people out on errands etc...)

He's intelligent enough but he's no brainiac. I think this person has an alpha male thing going on but he's not very good at it in other people's eyes, especially women. I think he may have known one or both girls. I think his inflated ego makes him reckless and appear disjointed sometimes but he can focus under pressure and get things done.

I think he has a very angry and cruel side that's been with him and noticeable since childhood. I don't think he's had much luck with the opposite sex and overcompensates for this with bravado and crude talk. I think he looks to younger girls because women his age find him undesirable after scratching the surface.

I think he comes from a well off family, not a struggling one.

I think he will travel and possibly commit murder again, if he hasn't already.
AJMO

 

[JnRyan]

I think the thread has done a good job of coming up with a decent profile, aided by the little we know from LE.

Here's what I've gathered on the thread. Everyone please jump in and correct, add, or delete. Let's see where we end up.

18-24 year old
Student
No school that day
Mentality of serial killer - no empathy, low emotional response
Solid build except skinny legs
Agile, knew that bridge well and navigated it quickly; seems athletic
Voice had a weird combination of familiar* and authority
*Using the term "guys" is a friendly term you use with a group you know, or a nice way to suggest you could be friendly. (Such as hey sister, hi Cousin, etc.)
Being able to manage two young teens (even with a gun) suggests some sort of training in LE, MP, etc.

That's my start. Everyone jump in! Feel free to pull it apart.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I can go with everything except the LE training. Especially, if there is a possibility that the reason Abigail and Liberty might be on the other side of the creek is if they tried to run away.

 

[JnRyan]

Unfortunately, I believe we are going to be here a year from now wondering if 'today' is the day and where this killer is. I've seen a lot of cases where LE put on the full court press and put massive resources into an investigation but this appears to be the largest amount of personnel resources I've ever seen applied to a murder or missing person. And to date, we don't have anything. I don't believe this killer has said anything to anyone and if he doesn't live in the Delphi area no one has a clue that he was there that day. I believe this guy is going to have to be arrested for something that causes LE to take his DNA before he gets caught.

 

[Charlot123]

I think the thread has done a good job of coming up with a decent profile, aided by the little we know from LE.

Here's what I've gathered on the thread. Everyone please jump in and correct, add, or delete. Let's see where we end up.

18-24 year old
Student
No school that day
Mentality of serial killer - no empathy, low emotional response
Solid build except skinny legs
Agile, knew that bridge well and navigated it quickly; seems athletic
Voice had a weird combination of familiar* and authority
*Using the term "guys" is a friendly term you use with a group you know, or a nice way to suggest you could be friendly. (Such as hey sister, hi Cousin, etc.)
Being able to manage two young teens (even with a gun) suggests some sort of training in LE, MP, etc.

That's my start. Everyone jump in! Feel free to pull it apart.

Amateur opinion and speculation

- Not sure about a student
- NOT a drug junkie
- either obviously introverted or an «ambivert» (an introvert who learned to fly under the radar)
- extensive imaginary world
- could be staying at home, doing nothing...planning to make a computer game and get rich, or get enrolled into a college, or get a prestigious job..tomorrow
IQ average to high average

 

[HEY YOU!]

Please tell me who said they saw a man in black and when/where.

 

[HEY YOU!]

So please refresh my memory if you can:

1-<modsnip - topic off limits>
2-Was Libby using her phone or her grandmother's phone?
3-Was it a family member who found them?
4-Was it someone who lived less than a mile from crime scene who found them?
5-Did Abby ever have her own phone or was it taken away or broken?

Still praying for an answer.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

She seemed heartbroken to me. Grieving is a very personal thing that people have to learn to live with after something this tragic. I make no judgements on anyone else's grief and how they deal with it. We just don't know unless it's happened to us. I've known people that the only way they made it through another day was to smile and remember the good. Others who have completely shut off from life and everything in it. You just never know.

You and others have pointed out to me how judgmental my post was and you are so right.
Forgive me. I do not know how I would react or grieve in the situation Abby's mom is in.
Her daughter was murdered. Mine was a stupid comment and I sincerely apologize.
I truly am a compassionate person. That was very cruel of me.

 

[Boxer]

dbm

 

[tresir2012]

So please refresh my memory if you can:

1-Did Abby or Libby have a boyfriend?
2-Was Libby using her phone or her grandmother's phone?
3-Was it a family member who found them?
4-Was it someone who lived less than a mile from crime scene who found them?
5-Did Abby ever have her own phone or was it taken away or broken?

Still praying for an answer.

If I answer, do you need links?

On previous one, Google "man in black, delphi murders" and the article should come up or try a search of the media thread with "man in black".

 

[HEY YOU!]

If I answer, do you need links?

On previous one, Google "man in black, delphi murders" and the article should come up or try a search of the media thread with "man in black".

No links necessary, just trying to remember some aspects and what facts are!

 

[Boxer]

You and others have pointed out to me how judgmental my post was and you are so right.
Forgive me. I do not know how I would react or grieve in the situation Abby's mom is in.
Her daughter was murdered. Mine was a stupid comment and I sincerely apologize.
I truly am a compassionate person. That was very cruel of me.

MOO Abby's mom does have a kind of neutral face in interviews. But if you see video of her on the night of the search or watch the virtual detective interview, you see her fear and sadness briefly catch her and her struggle to keep control for being public. I hope this killer gets caught soon!
New age range = more hope for a arrest.