Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #5

[MassGuy]

BBM - wow that's what I was waiting for - clarification that she did have location available on her phone to certain people. It pops up on text messages under "info" if it is enabled.... whoever shut that phone off must have known this about her - leaning more and more towards she knew the person she was meeting in the park. IMO

This person didn’t necessarily have to know that she had her location available.

Even if this is not the case, a phone is basically a tracking device (which many criminals are aware of).

Here’s my issue with this:

There seem to be strong indications that she knew this person, as I can’t imagine a first time meetup at that time and that location.

The Lyft driver also apparently gave indications that there was some familiarity (she was happy to see this person).

So why pick her up and tip your hand immediately?

You probably can’t turn her phone off, or have her turn her phone off without drawing suspicion.

There’s the chance that she could escape, a struggle could ensue, and whatever you’re planning goes to hell.

So I’m struggling to understand the timing of her phone being shut off.

Either that’s wrong, she did it herself, her phone died, or this guy lives very close to that park (or they traveled to a location nearby).

Weird.

 

[oviedo]

WOW, I don’t like this at all

From the article:

Police will confirm that Lueck’s cell phone is currently powered down and that it was turned off once she met up with an unknown person at Hatch Park in North Salt Lake just before 3 a.m. on June 17.

“Pretty much right after the contact was made at the park—that’s when things went dark,” said Detective Greg Wilking.

So they must have some phone records? Pings will be useless then if it was powered off. JMO and I think they knew this...

 

[margarita25]

Another thing, what open cases do we have, if any, that could be similar as far as posssibly disappearing after an online date, specifically in Utah and/or bordering states?

 

[cherrytree9]

<snipped>One last thing, hardly any of my friends use their phones for texting/calling directly. We use apps constantly. My sister and I communicate exclusively through Snapchat or IG. If you looked at my phone records, you'd think I haven't spoken to her in a year! The warrants for social media accounts will be the big break here, if there is one. Hoping for something to come from those soon!

I was just reading an article that quotes a forensics expert who said exactly the same thing! That most people use apps to communicate so they'll have to get info from social media companies as opposed to her phone provider.
https://ksltv.com/416737/forensics-expert-phone-records-may-be-dead-end-in-lueck-disappearance/[URL]https://ksltv.com/416737/forensics-expert-phone-records-may-be-dead-end-in-lueck-disappearance/[/URL]

 

[Snoop Sister]

From what I’ve read that is code speak in sugar lifestyle for a monthly allowance.
Not a pay per meet situation.

Exactly and long term.

 

[liltexans]

Friendly Reminder

We are all in @Tricia's house here at Websleuths. You are, I am, everyone posting here is. When Tricia makes a rule or changes a rule, you can be sure that it is done with good reason and it is based on her many years (decades, really) of experience owning a crime sleuthing forum.

The moderators are all volunteers helping because we are invested in these cases and the overall cause. If anyone has an issue or problem with the rules or TOS here at WS, you are more than welcome to message Tricia with your questions and concerns. She's very easy to talk to.

Thank you.

 

[gingerbread]

Is it possible to tell if her phone died on its own, rather than being physically turned off? That being said, I don’t think it died on its own because she had been traveling and *probably* had a charger. She was holding the phone in her hand in the airport stills, and I feel like she’d have put it in her bag if it was out of battery. It’s very hard for me to imagine a situation in which ML willingly shut off her phone, especially at that time of night.

 

[Amour4mi]

Here’s another thing and what this respectful and academic discussion comes down to (again thanks for that to all. We are all on the same side here I think, even though our opinions may vary):

What are the chances here in everybody’s opinions that a possible meeting as the one we are discussing as a potential was a factor in Kenzie’s disappearance? Imo, the chances are definitely high, at leeeeeeast 33% imo and that’s a conservative estimate on my part.

Of course it could turn out that these factors have nothing to do with any of this, as people are victims of crimes all the time that do not participate in these types of relationships.

But I think common sense tells us that there is a VERY GOOD cHance this could be the key to her missing .

We also know a case can have twists and turns and surprises...for all we know none of this is a factor here. And it could turn out to be nothing we expected. But we would be irresponsible and frankly not quite bright if we were to discount this as a variable. I’m almost positive LE would agree, moo.

So, again goal is not to debate or have a discussion about morals, but rather emphasize the point for young women out there to really think harder about this if you think this is safe behavior. Yeah you might say, “oh well I always tell my friends where I’m going”—-well, that’s not going to help you in the situation, only perhaps afterwards when it’s too late. And even simple things like them having your SM account info, phone number, etc can lead to all kinds of information being divulged about you, who your family members are, where you live, where you work.

Circling around back around to Kensie specifically, let’s hope whomever she met left a trail. If this was premeditated and he is a sophisticated predator, then he may have hidden his tracks well and not left any breadcrumbs.

Also keep in mind that even if her friends know something and know more they have to only communicate that with LE. I'm positive they know more about her relationships because she was very open about it, also leads me to understand why they didn't think anything when they didn't hear from her at first. We also don't know if possibly it's not an SD but an ex or someone she was 'friends' and casual with who wanted more. At this point the only thing that matters regarding any relationship is WHO AND WHERE they are.

 

[JaneEyre]

How about a thread in the Parking Lot where people could debate SB lifestyle and only allow this thread for any MKs SB issues?

I’m going to respectfully suggest that given the mods’ current overload and Tricia’s general aggravation with us and that topic that we skip having a thread (that would still have to be moderated) and instead people who are interested start a group PM for further discussion. Just my opinion based on the last couple of days at WS.

Edited typo

 

[ksmith3271]

BBM:

This may in part explain why LE has repeatedly appealed to the public for help answering the question:

Does ML have an alternate phone that she has used or is using?

LE may not be finding info that would logically be expected to be present in her phone data there.

Do we know if her phone was on a family plan w/ her parents or not?

JMO.

Regarding phone plan, I believe if she were on her parents phone plan the police would not need a warrant, as the parents would grant permission. A warrant is needed bc they are accessing ML without her consent.

 

[mfmfan77]

FWIW, I'm close to Kenzie's age and travel on Southwest often, and even for short weekend trips I always take a checked bag because it's free and more convenient. You drop your bag off as soon as you get to the airport and then don't worry about it again until you land. You don't have to worry about lugging it around and putting it in the overhead bin, and you can obviously pack more stuff that you might end up needing.

I don't think the size of the bag indicates anything at all.

What MIGHT indicate something is the fact that her phone was turned off immediately upon getting in the car at Hatch Park, with LE implying that it was turned off before it ever left that location. IMO, that's pretty quick for someone to incapacitate Kenzie and/or forcibly take her phone and turn it off.

IMO, this might actually mean that Kenzie turned her phone off willingly for whatever reason -- a pre-arranged agreement of no phones? not wanting friends to see her phone's location in a prominent neighborhood? actually planning to escape reality for a bit?

I'm 99% sure this is wishful thinking on my part, but the phone news seems to be more indicative of a possible runaway situation than the suitcase size, IMO. Sadly, it could also mean that Kenzie didn't stand a chance once she got in that car.

MOO

 

[margarita25]

The potential that she was familiar with, knew and trusted this person is high imo—-so if so, how does nobody know about this person? Not a single person? Why is he such a secret? Maybe he’s “hiding in Plain Sight”, posing as an alliance, moo. Maybe someone in her circle that may be obsessed with her.

—-

Again, WHY MEET IN THE PARK. Why would she go to the park? He could’ve come to her house or she could have gone there.

Likely a married man, moo. Or friend she didn’t suspect. Or other man or even woman for all we know with ill intentions.

I want to tell you guys about some cases where a FEMALE poses as a friend, only to be part of the lure (trafficking). How strong of a possibility is this, maybe not that strong but it has happened and I can cite cases.

 

[otto]

Can I beg and plead with the people of this thread to please keep the focus on information that is actually helpful in finding Kenzie. We have covered time and time and time again that she has interest in the SD/SB lifestyle, she has participated in it, she has a private instagram and #CHD in her bio, she has dating profiles and SD/SB profiles, and was involved in certain FB groups. I knew this. I have seen this. The family spokesperson has remarked that her family does not care about what she was into, if she git mixed up in something, or frankly anyone's opinions on the matter. The fact is, Kenzie is an amazing young woman, who deserves some respect while her private life gets blasted all over the internet.

I am trying to preserve some dignity here for my friend. We have covered that her dating choices, preferences, and lifestyle may be risky - multiple times. The person involved in this case could just as well be a co-worker, a neighbor, a friend, a college friend, an ex, a current love interest. But reading this thread one would think the only possibility is a SD. While I don't rule that out, I think we have more than covered it here. If you would like to debate the SD/SB lifestyle and whether or not you think it's common, uncommon, normal, not normal, risky, reckless, what have you please I ask you do this somewhere else.

This forum has the potential to be extremely beneficial to helping find Kenzie. And there are many people who contribute who I feel are helping that. But I believe all this SD/SD, risky, not risky, discussion is taking away from the true fact of the matter. My friend is missing.

Given what police have said, it sounds like the best thing that friends can do to help locate Kenzie is to share with police all information they have about her online profiles. Her phone was turned off after she met with someone at the park. That tells us that either Kenzie or the driver wanted to eliminate the digital trail at that moment. My guess is that this was the driver's decision. Assuming that it was the driver, that suggests that the driver was very careful to avoid a digital footprint in all communication with Kenzie.

Did Kenzie mention using any new apps? Did she have a normal routine in terms of switching to a particular app after initial contact with someone? For example, I typically switch to WhatsApp after initial contact. The identity of the person she met is somewhere in her digital world.

If she had an iphone and an ipad or other Apple product, the devices are usually paired, so it's easy to see which apps are downloaded. Do you know whether she had an iphone? That would be too easy, but it might be the only hope of following the digital trail.

 

[Inthedetails]

Thanks! I've been lurking for quite awhile now, and it's not often that I have any insight to give. You guys are WAY faster than me at finding information! For once though, I can relate to the victim. Young women are judged so harshly sometimes for them just being full humans. MOO - her sexuality has very little, if anything, to do with her being missing. It might be the way she met the person initially in the park, but it doesn't take away from the fact that she is MISSING. I hope to God that if I go missing, they don't focus on what I do in my bedroom or someone else's. I want them to FIND me!

Also, as a woman not too far out of her age group, I would absolutely have taken a Lyft from the airport and refused to let someone pick me up. It was super late, flights get delayed (as hers did) and the rideshare companies have designated waiting areas. You can hop off the plane, grab your luggage, call a car, and be out much faster and easier than having an individual pick you up. I've been picked up at the airport exactly once since ridesharing became a thing, and it was only because a friend wouldn't stop asking to pick me up. I'm independent, comfortable in airports, and use Lyft every time I travel without my car. It's safe & easy 99.99% of the time, and it's super convenient.

One last thing, hardly any of my friends use their phones for texting/calling directly. We use apps constantly. My sister and I communicate exclusively through Snapchat or IG. If you looked at my phone records, you'd think I haven't spoken to her in a year! The warrants for social media accounts will be the big break here, if there is one. Hoping for something to come from those soon!

Understood. I don't question her comfort in taking a Lyft. Totally get that.

I question her date's decision to not pick her up. If he wanted to see a woman at 3am, he can drive the extra 11 miles to pick her up. If he was truly interested in her in any way, other than purely selfish ways, he would have done that, imo. Especially if he was into being the big man who pampers his dates.

It's a big ol' waving red flag to me, as someone who is well beyond this age group, that this was not done. Has nothing to do, really, about ridesharing being a thing. It has to do with what his intentions were, and from what we can see, his intentions were not good. And, I think it has to do with avoiding cameras.

jmo...from someone who has been around the block


jmo

 

[liltexans]

I’m going to respectfully suggest that given the mods’ current overload and Tricia’s general aggravation with us and that topic that we skip having a thread (that would still have to be moderated) and instead people who are interested start a group PM for further discussion. Just my opinion based on the last couple of ads at WS.

Great idea! You all may have as many private conversations about as many topics as you wish. Just keep them private and don't discuss them here. I think you can invite 20 or 30 people to your private conversations.

 

[Cardinal47]

https://ksltv.com/416735/dummy-surv...t-capture-makenzie-luecks-last-known-contact/

https://ksltv.com/416737/forensics-expert-phone-records-may-be-dead-end-in-lueck-disappearance/

no cameras/no phone

Well now that's interesting. Dummy camera's. I have wondered why Mackenzie took a Lyft instead of the somebody she met in the park picking her up at an airport that had to be mostly deserted at 2:30 am. That brings the Lyft driver and park camera's into the picture.
So now I wonder if somebody in town politics is involved? They would know where the real camera's and dummy ones are located. A politician..heaven knows most of them have hungry sexual appetites, policeman or detective? The mind wanders.

 

[Seattle1]

That's interesting. What if there really was no car there to meet her and the Lyft driver just said there was because he didn't want to seem like a callous d*ck for dropping her off alone at a park at 3 AM? I'm thinking that LE has seen a car in the footage surrounding the area to believe him, though, since they're stating it as fact that she was met by another car at the park.

If ML's connection was not present when she arrived, I really hope ML would not get out and strand herself in Hatch Park at 3am. That makes no sense...

It's very easy to continue with your Lyft and/or Uber ride to a revised location -- especially at that hour.

MOO

 

[dub]

Here’s another thing and what this respectful and academic discussion comes down to (again thanks for that to all. We are all on the same side here I think, even though our opinions may vary):

What are the chances here in everybody’s opinions that a possible meeting as the one we are discussing as a potential was a factor in Kenzie’s disappearance? Imo, the chances are definitely high, at leeeeeeast 33% imo and that’s a conservative estimate on my part.

Of course it could turn out that these factors have nothing to do with any of this, as people are victims of crimes all the time that do not participate in these types of relationships.

But I think common sense tells us that there is a VERY GOOD cHance this could be the key to her missing .

We also know a case can have twists and turns and surprises...for all we know none of this is a factor here. And it could turn out to be nothing we expected. But we would be irresponsible and frankly not quite bright if we were to discount this as a variable. I’m almost positive LE would agree, moo.

So, again goal is not to debate or have a discussion about morals, but rather emphasize the point for young women out there to really think harder about this if you think this is safe behavior. Yeah you might say, “oh well I always tell my friends where I’m going”—-well, that’s not going to help you in the situation, only perhaps afterwards when it’s too late. And even simple things like them having your SM account info, phone number, etc can lead to all kinds of information being divulged about you, who your family members are, where you live, where you work.

Circling around back around to Kensie specifically, let’s hope whomever she met left a trail. If this was premeditated and he is a sophisticated predator, then he may have hidden his tracks well and not left any breadcrumbs.

33% sounds in the ballpark to me. I'd probably put that at the high end rather than the low end, but I think that's reasonable.

 

[heed101]

I was just reading an article that quotes a forensics expert who said exactly the same thing! That most people use apps to communicate so they'll have to get info from social media companies as opposed to her phone provider.
https://ksltv.com/416737/forensics-expert-phone-records-may-be-dead-end-in-lueck-disappearance/https://ksltv.com/416737/forensics-expert-phone-records-may-be-dead-end-in-lueck-disappearance/

...which seems might be more difficult

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m confused by your post. I never said I don’t have faith in the FBI or other federal law enforcements, nor did I imply that I don’t think they are highly qualified or work tirelessly for victims.

I feel that everyone is like “The FBI is involved so that means something!” I just don’t necessarily think it means anything except that local LE asked for assistance. That is not a judgement on the feds or their ability, it’s just a simple fact. Sometimes they get involved and it turns out the person hid themselves. Shrug.

The significance of the FBI being involved clarifies that LE does not believe she is voluntarily missing.
So comments are likely referring to the serious nature of the investigation, since it is a major turn. For an entire week there was no indication that there was foul play. As of yesterday the investigation took on a new meaning, I think that's what was meant by those comments. Imo