OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

[Myland]

Jmo was James Manley’s charges dismissed with prejudice or without?

 

[Loomis124]

Theatre....And all the world is FW's stage...For now...JMO

I have a question. In reading yesterday's court entries, it looks like Owen/Kroenig are no longer allowed to talk to FW or anyone publically about the case. Is that correct? TY JMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

In my opinion, the dismissal is due to continued review of what FW provided in her receipts and the speedy trial clock.

If her submitted receipts led to new stuff to be looked into, including IP addresses, it makes me wonder even more about the items in those receipts:
2x bullet proof vest, a second BPV, 4x fringed and flashy coat, slingshot, and a helmet

I have always found the 4x jacket to be an odd one after looking at the style. It doesn't look like one I picture BW wearing, based on what photos I have seen, and while he is a larger man, I could see 2x such as the BPV more so than the 4x.

There could be something to the inclusion of that jacket, the slingshot, and /or helmet in the receipts. Maybe the ip addresses could show one or more of these items were purchased from a different IP address which would demonstrate her account is used to make purchases by others.

Anyhow, just an opinion or initial reaction to what I felt I heard/read in yesterday's news. The items bundled together in the receipts provided seemed strange to begin with.

 

[Cool Cats]

Jmo was James Manley’s charges dismissed with prejudice or without?

It was without. Junk said he may take JM's Case before the Grand Jury at a later date and see if they indict him. We don't know if he did later go to the GJ and they didn't indict him, or if he just never took it to the GJ again. It's been 2 years, the odds of James getting indicted again are nil in my opinion.

I find it very curious that the reason Junk gave for dismissing James Manley's case is that the prosecution did not want to reveal the reasons for the GPS Warrant because it could comprise the murder investigation.

It's curious because Owen, Fred's attorney, asked for the Search Warrant Affidavits (reasons listed why they need the search) of Fred's property and Junk said they couldn't reveal that information because it could compromise the Wagner 4 murder trials. So Owen never got this Discovery request that the Defense was very much entitled to!

So is this the real reason for the Dismissal yesterday? I think it at least added to the
reason for the Dismissal.

........Just My 2 Cents........

 

[Cool Cats]

Best article that explains the 2 Memorandums that were submitted with Fred's Motion for Dismissal. It's obvious to me that the Prosecution is accusing Owen of deliberately "beating out the clock" on the time for a Speedy Trial. You be the Judge on that..lol...

Charges dropped against Fredericka Wagner, at least for now
POSTED ON JUNE 26, 2019

In the first Memorandum filed with the court, prosecutors begin by noting Wagner had been charged with obstructing justice and perjury.

“The conduct underlying these offenses is alleged to have incurred in front of the Grand Jury on July 24, 2018,” the Memorandum continues "On March 14, 2019, the state of Ohio received information from the defense for the first time that is now being investigated and analyzed by the Cyber Crimes Unit and the Criminal Intelligence Unit of the Ohio Attorney General’s Bureau of Criminal Investigation. This investigation is ongoing, and has already led to new and favorable evidence, but it will take more time to complete.”

The Memorandum goes on to note prosecutors need the results of that investigation to complete their case. Prosecutors further wrote the results of the investigation would, by law, need to be shared as discovery with the defense team. Basically, the state argued they did not have time to complete the needed study, then turn results over to the defense team with sufficient time for those attorneys to review that material prior to trial. They further noted the time frame for providing Wagner with a speedy trial continues to tick away.

According to the Memorandum, prosecutors claim Fredericka Wagner told a Grand Jury “repeatedly… that she purchased the items on Amazon, that she had already printed out the records, and that she would provide them to the state.” However, prosecutors later claimed “the defense has arguably engaged in dilatory practices.’

Prosecutors claim they provided the defense with responses to their discovery demands in November, but the Defense never reciprocated as is required by law, until March 14.

The State charged The Defense team with what they called "unjustifiable delay" in providing records and stated any delay in the overall case "can be attributed to no one but Defendant .”

 

[Ann99]

Good article that explains Prosecution possible reasoning for the dismissal.
Hoping Manley, Rhoden and Gilley Families find this strategy comforting, giving confidence in AC and her use of trial strategy.

Expert: Dropped charges likely aren't the end for Pike County matriarch

Can’t cut and paste from the article, so a must read.

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

It was without. Junk said he may take JM's Case before the Grand Jury at a later date and see if they indict him. We don't know if he did later go to the GJ and they didn't indict him, or if he just never took it to the GJ again. It's been 2 years, the odds of James getting indicted again are nil in my opinion.

I find it very curious that the reason Junk gave for dismissing James Manley's case is that the prosecution did not want to reveal the reasons for the GPS Warrant because it could comprise the murder investigation.

It's curious because Owen, Fred's attorney, asked for the Search Warrant Affidavits (reasons listed why they need the search) of Fred's property and Junk said they couldn't reveal that information because it could compromise the Wagner 4 murder trials. So Owen never got this Discovery request that the Defense was very much entitled to!

So is this the real reason for the Dismissal yesterday? I think it at least added to the
reason for the Dismissal.

........Just My 2 Cents........

Due process tolerates variances in procedure depending on the case of law. All is not
apples and oranges, more like deprivation v. separation. Just my opinion...

 

[FrescaandSouthernComfort]

In my opinion, the dismissal is due to continued review of what FW provided in her receipts and the speedy trial clock.

If her submitted receipts led to new stuff to be looked into, including IP addresses, it makes me wonder even more about the items in those receipts:
2x bullet proof vest, a second BPV, 4x fringed and flashy coat, slingshot, and a helmet

I have always found the 4x jacket to be an odd one after looking at the style. It doesn't look like one I picture BW wearing, based on what photos I have seen, and while he is a larger man, I could see 2x such as the BPV more so than the 4x.

There could be something to the inclusion of that jacket, the slingshot, and /or helmet in the receipts. Maybe the ip addresses could show one or more of these items were purchased from a different IP address which would demonstrate her account is used to make purchases by others.

Anyhow, just an opinion or initial reaction to what I felt I heard/read in yesterday's news. The items bundled together in the receipts provided seemed strange to begin with.

JMO, Much more has been learned by LE regarding the purchases and the actual buyer.
Again, JMO...

 

[Cool Cats]

Good article that explains Prosecution possible reasoning for the dismissal.
Hoping Manley, Rhoden and Gilley Families find this strategy comforting, giving confidence in AC and her use of trial strategy.



Can’t cut and paste from the article, so a must read.

Thankx for the article Ann!

Got it:
WAVERLY, Ohio — When the state of Ohio dropped perjury and obstruction charges against Fredericka Wagner, the mother and grandmother of suspects in an 2016 octuple homicide that made national headlines, the 76-year-old former Sunday school teacher put it down to an act of God.

Longtime criminal defense attorney Mark Krumbein said it’s much more likely an act of strategy.

“You can’t get too excited about that,” he said Wednesday night. “Something this serious, they’ll probably refile charges.”

A prosecutor in Pike County court said the charges had been dropped because the state couldn’t guarantee Wagner would receive a speedy trial per her Sixth Amendment rights. Verifying the statements at the center of the case — her claim she did not purchase a pair of bulletproof vests until after the homicides — would involve a lengthy process of sorting through her online history.

According to Krumbein, a “speedy trial” in a felony case means one that begins within 90 days of filing if the suspect is incarcerated and within 270 if, like Fredericka Wagner, they are not.

Dropping the charges for now could give prosecutors a chance to reset the clock by filing them again later. There’s no risk of double jeopardy until a trial actually begins, he added.

In the meantime, putting the case on pause could free up prosecutors’ resources to focus on the other Wagners: George Wagner III, Angela Wagner and their two sons, Jake and George Wagner IV. All four stand charged with aggravated murder and could receive the death penalty if convicted. All four have pleaded not guilty.

“I think it’s a good strategy for the prosecution not to go forward with Fredericka’s case,” Krumbein said. “Here’s the reason: Those are minor, bush-league charges compared to murder. … If her case moves forward, that might give away some of their cards or some information they wouldn’t have to share, ever, until their trial started, give away part of their game ahead of time.

“Not a good move for relatively minor charges.”

Expert: Dropped charges likely aren't the end for Pike County matriarch

 

[Ann99]

Thanks CoolCats!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

JMO, Much more has been learned by LE regarding the purchases and the actual buyer.
Again, JMO...

I think your right, I believe when FW let the prosecution have access to her internet server over her case, that is when LE found a lot more against the Wagners 4

 

[Fletcher73]

RSBM
...All of the other victims were out of sight from the front door and front windows as far as we know. ... potentially could have given the killers more time when it came to the victims being found.

What would have happened had BJM not went in Sr’s house that morning? How long would it have taken for anyone to discover all 8 victims? ... So, it was only a matter of time before the victims were found but still all of the doors were locked. ... Had she not unlocked Chris’ door, more time would’ve passed before discovery. ...

Interesting - your idea that the killers may have staged the victims to gain a lengthy lead-time for discovery - it occurs to me the children would've been alone much longer, chancing greater harm to them.

BR was too little to call 911 but what if his parents' phones were removed by the killers so he couldn't call his mom as the morning wore on?

If the killers were hoping to harm the babies by abandonment, it doesn't make them seem compassionate toward children (& dogs) just manipulative and passive-aggressive. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks CoolCats!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo but she was only being used for pressure and the state had to threaten more charges to try to keep some type of pressure on. The prosecutor knew they couldn’t go to trial and end with an innocent verdict. Jmo

Apparently I was wrong about Fred. The charges have been dismissed against her. While I will not go so far as to say she is innocent, at this time the only thing she has been proven guilty of is wearing a snood to court and having the most fantastic complexion I have ever seen on a 76 year old woman. We should all be so lucky at 76.

Since Fred is no longer charged with a crime I will no longer be discussing her on here.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thankx @RAISINISBACK . I apologize for over-reacting to your post a few days ago. My sister passed and I'm so stressed trying to pay everything and distribute everything fairly as executor of her estate ("I want her grill", "I want her jewelry", "a pipe burst in her house fix it "Cool Cats!", " her mortgage payment is due" "you need to pay it "Cool Cats!" " You better pay it!!! ETC"...) She was divorced with no kids and I'm her only sibling. I was just too emotional to even be posting, the thread isn't about me! I like your posts and look forward to many more posts from you and all the other posters on here.

Justice is coming!.....Sorry, don't want to make the thread about what I'm dealing with. I, we, all of us, just want to see it through and look, wait , and hope, for Justice!

@Cool Cats

My condolences. I know what it is like to lose a sister. Get some rest. It does not do anyone any good for you to be stretched beyond your breaking point. I too enjoyed our discussions and count them among the most intelligent discussions I have had on here.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That's an interesting and plausible theory. I've had the impression all along that the prosecution has some significant evidence that they didn't want to reveal in these pre-trial hearings for FW and RN. Recordings of conversations? Something that bolsters the cases re collusion and pattern of corrupt activity?

That said, its still possible there was something in the discovery the state received from FW's defense that helped bolster their case. I don't see AC making up a story like that when she could be called on it later. Would she?

ETA: I do think RN will go to trial and probably be convicted on her forgery charges. State needs solid evidence for that and assume they have it.

JMO

I too have that impression.

I think RN will plead out to a lesser charge.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Here is your link

Charges dismissed against Fredericka Wagner in Pike County massacre case

Yes, the Plain Dealer almost sounds like they want the other defendants to get out of jail, too. What an odd newspaper. They've always been terrible. JMO

Charges dismissed against Fredericka Wagner in Pike County massacre case - cleveland.com

In documents filed Wednesday, Pike County Prosecutor Rob Junk said that Owen is seeking search warrant affidavits involving the search of Wagner’s home in 2017. Junk said releasing that “information at this time would compromise’’ prosecutors’ cases against Wagner’s family.

Very telling as to why the charges were dismissed. Now Rita is pulling the same trick and requesting the same documents. Will charges against her be dismissed also to keep the information under wraps?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think your right, I believe when FW let the prosecution have access to her internet server over her case, that is when LE found a lot more against the Wagners 4

I have always said that she is not the one who bought that stuff on her account.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

Great articles and analysis by all! Especially the one from the Portsmouth Daily Times.
Charges dropped against Fredericka Wagner, at least for now - Portsmouth Daily Times

Prosecution is very clear in her reasons for dropping the charges and it does sound like they have every intention of filing charges later. FW's online purchasing activities seem to be intricately connected to the murders. JMO, it's obvious FW has been trying to obstruct justice:

According to the Memorandum, prosecutors claim Fredericka Wagner told a Grand Jury “repeatedly… that she purchased the items on Amazon, that she had already printed out the records, and that she would provide them to the state.” However, prosecutors later claimed “the defense has arguably engaged in dilatory practices.’

Agree, FW and her attorneys had a strategy to obstruct and delay to run out the clock. At the same time, they were digging for more information about evidence prosecutors had about the murders. I'm including FW's defense attorneys under the obstruction label because they delayed as long as possible the discovery evidence prosecutors requested. Dilatory practices.

Confuse, obfuscate, delay, etc. will be the defense strategy for RN and the W4 going forward. They'll try to keep the prosecution running in circles while they cry publicly that they're being treated unfairly.

If there's more evidence out there of FW and others past online history, purchasing records, etc. that's relevant to their massacre supply chain and prep management, can the prosecution continue to access that info directly from suppliers, internet service providers, etc. without having to wait for the defense to produce them in discovery?

Crazy to think that, with all the multiple terabytes of evidence that there's still more evidence out there.

Big enmeshed family + big elaborate murder plan = big massacre of another large family over custody. Sounds so similar to organized crime. That's working at the master level. If they were engaged in some sort of business, one might call them a mini-cartel. JMO

FW complained yesterday about social media giving her a hard time. She's probably watching, along with all the defense attorneys.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

FW keeps telling news media that it was a Cartel hit, she better watch what she saying, from all that I have read about the Cartel, they don’t forgive and her relatives are in jail where some Cartel maybe, if you live on a glass farm do not throw rocks! JMO