CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

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" The sighting of her car at Haugen's BBQ in Port Perry at 5:30 am - 6:30 am by JE should not be discounted."
----- which shows RB is innocent because he was at home when Mrs B phoned that morning around 6:20am. The Crown has admitted he couldn't have been in PT Perry at this time. This is why they moved their theory to Friday morning.

This still does not discount RB if the sighting was closer to 5:30 am or even 6:30 am. The call from Bain to Baltovich was between 6:45 am and 7:00 am when Bain's mother reported her missing to the police. The reports I've seen show the call to RB at 7:00 am. Either way, it's an 45 minutes tops at that time of morning from Haugen's to Scarborough and 3R and back home.

The car was dropped off and left outside 3R prior to the employees arriving. Her body was only in the car for a few hours during transport, possibly (likely) immediately after her death. Maybe 8 hours.

But I don't believe for a second the car left the lot at 3R from Wednesday morning until it was found on Friday.

The Crown and the police went with the wrong timeline, but that doesn't exonerate RB. It was easy to sneak out of his parents house when they thought he was asleep and be back when the call came in from Bain's mother. Of course the chance was her mother would call looking for her earlier, but that was a chance that had to be taken.
 
Snoopcat:
The blood is a bit confusing. What the CFS meant is that the blood was deposited within three hours after death in order to retain its reddish color. That blood could have been deposited on Tuesday night in that manner and it would look like it did on Friday afternoon.
If the body was moved in two and some days later, there would have been more of a darkish brown decomposing fluid.

Snively:
Love to see these "reports" that the call to RB's house was at 7am. Mrs B calls the police at 6:45am after she calls RB but doesn't call RB until 7am as per your information.
You'd make a good crown prosecutor convicting innocent people cause you're just throwing a bunch of incoherent information out there.
You're thinking is flawed from the start. You're thinking RB is guilty therefore how did he do it at whatever cost. No matter how silly it is.
There is not one iota of evidence that RB was involved. The Crown fully admitted his alibi was "wrapped so tight" for Tuesday night Wednesday morning.
I think you're having a difficult time wrapping your head around the fact that our system would intentionally fabricate a case around an innocent individual just for a conviction. Not sure how many of these cases have to be proven to have happened for people like yourself to give someone like RB the benefit of the doubt.
Here is something that might blow your mind. There is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty in our system and there never was.
 
Snively:
Hey my friend. Would you mind laying out your full theory of when and how you think RB committed this act.
Then I can offer evidence against those points and maybe I won't be able to.

Thanks
 
Snively wrote:
"" The call from Bain to Baltovich was between 6:45 am and 7:00 am""

Snively, where the heck are you getting this fantasy information. Please do tell.

Mrs B testified at trial:
""...... and between six and six-thirty I phoned Rob's house"

RB himself says the call came in by 6:30am.
 
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Snively wrote:
Either way, it's an 45 minutes tops at that time of morning from Haugen's to Scarborough and 3R and back home.

Hey Snively, my friend. Can you give me what route you think the car would have gone from Haugen's to the 3r Auto.
I think right down 12 to 401 and take the Kingston Rd cut off that goes right to the 3r auto would be the fastest. If you know a faster way, let me know please.
I am going to do that route soon and end up at RB's home to see what the timing would be.

I'll let you know how I make out. And I have no intentions of fudging any of the timing.
I will get to the 3r auto and pretend I'm parking Liz's car and hopping into another car, and then head down to RB's home he lived at the time.

So whatever happened and whomever was responsible, it is apparent that you and I do agree that the Friday morning theory is definitely out of the equation.
If I am wrong about that, please correct me.

Cheers
 
Bernardo question for anyone:

His last reported Scarborough rape was May 26th 1990 if I recall correctly.
The victim gave a pretty darn good description for the composite drawing that was released shortly after.
These posters were plastered all over the place.

Wouldn't the following action by Bernardo be to immediately dye his hair back to its natural color away from the blond hair in the composite description?
 
My comment is purely anecdotal but I can't really think of too many instances where a criminal change their appearance after a composite is released to the media/public. I know it does happen but is it the exception or the rule? I'm not sure. Why Bernardo didn't is anyone's guess. But he did decide to flee the area instead... permanently... and not long after EB went missing.

Where are you going with this, if I may ask?
 
eyesonly said:
Bernardo question for anyone:

His last reported Scarborough rape was May 26th 1990 if I recall correctly.
The victim gave a pretty darn good description for the composite drawing that was released shortly after.
These posters were plastered all over the place.

Wouldn't the following action by Bernardo be to immediately dye his hair back to its natural color away from the blond hair in the composite description?
Click to expand...

People close to him called in tips saying he matched the sketch after the composite was released.

  • July 1990: Two months after police received tips that Bernardo fit the Scarborough Rapist composite, he was interviewed by two police detectives.
Click to expand...
Paul Bernardo - Wikipedia

I couldn’t find anything that mentioned that he changed his hair colour. But here is a photo of him with brown hair, and the composite:

4DF8DBBA-F29E-4059-B024-4EC50E2ACC3D.jpeg 6D00D055-AD02-45FB-9E51-37F6C9133F58.jpeg

I agree Bernardo is a viable suspect, but physically aren’t RB and Bernardo very different?

RB is shorter and had a slighter build than Bernardo at that time. Bernardo had a distinctive swagger when he walked. IIRC, RB was athletic and there was nothing unusual about his walk.

The two are very different ‘types’, IMO. RB was handsome, he seemed focussed and intelligent. Bernardo seemed to be putting on a ‘cool’, animated, hip-hop affect, IMO.

I’ve only seen Bernardo on video, it’s just an impression.

ETA: @eyesonly : Are you referencing court transcripts? Is ‘No Claim to Mercy’ the best reference for the average person? (In terms of accuracy).
 
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@eyesonly EB purchased gas prior to her disappearance. When her car was found they estimated how far her car may have traveled based on how much gas was left in the tank, iirc.

Is there any room for error— she definitely purchased x amount of gas, and the usage was accurate?
 
Sorry for the multiple posts.

@eyesonly, was anything of value missing from EB?

At approximately the 20:00 mark in Bernardo police interview regarding EB, Bernardo states he had just declared bankruptcy (late May/early June 1990).

Yet, at around the 22:00 mark, they discuss a cell phone Bernardo purchased the day after EB went missing.


Also, the composite of him was out in the press days prior to EB going missing, however in the above interview he said he ‘didn’t really watch the news’ at that time and wasn’t following the news of EB’s disappearance.

We know he followed the news closely before he was caught. He kept news clippings of rapes in the States that he likely committed.

Bernardo is believed to have committed rapes in Hawaii while on his honeymoon there; police investigation of his home revealed that he had kept newspaper clippings detailing rapes that had taken place at that time.
Click to expand...

http://ssrsbstaff.ednet.ns.ca/aripl...t/Paul_Kenneth_Bernardo_and_Karla_Homolka.doc


Further about the distance EB’s car may have been driven between the last fill-up and when it was found- is a trip to St. Catharines possible?
 
Snoopcat wrote:
"Why Bernardo didn't is anyone's guess". (about dyeing his hair after the composite drawing)

---- we don't know that he didn't dye his hair back to its normal brown after the composite. If he did, then that takes away any issues of any so-called sightings of EB with a blond male, being assumed as Bernardo.

Lexi wrote:
1) "Is ‘No Claim to Mercy’ the best reference for the average person? (In terms of accuracy)."
2) " When her car was found they estimated how far her car may have traveled based on how much gas was left in the tank"
3) " was anything of value missing from EB?"

------ yes, I would say NCTM is a great reference for the average person. I do have access to the trial transcripts.
------ the gas in the car and how far it travelled is all bs. They had no idea where and how far the car travelled during the day of EB's disappearance. So they had no real starting point. They omitted over an hour of EB's unaccounted time in the car that afternoon. The police and the Crown had no interest in getting the gas milage checked out because it wasn't until after the prelim that it was actually EB's dad who called the test place to get things going. Also, the man named JS in the book NCTM, (the man I search with), actually drove EB's car with her youngest brother PB in the passenger seat out to the Ganaraska forest, where they were searching that day, and they both knew immediately that there was no way the car had gone to Pt Perry and back on the amount of gas that was left in the car. A point that Mrs B (EB's mother) brought up when the car arrived and she saw the faces of JS and her youngest son.
------ also, it was EB's mother who filled the car up on the Monday June 18th, not EB
------ no, there is no evidence that anything of value, or anything at all was taken of EB's.





-------
 
Sorry if this has been posted before, I tried searching but no results came up & wanted to see what you guys thought of this.

Let’s say PB did kill EB, it seems to be thought he would have buried her at lake Scugog, but if we take into consideration his sick thought process and I believe I read on here, someone mentioned, psychopaths think in ‘dark humour’ as PB demonstrated with how he disposed of Leslie and Kristin, it would fit that if EB was his first murder, he would keep her somewhere that he has more of a connection to. Farther up north is where PB was a councillor, at Camp Wabanaki. It was mentioned that this is the place PB started peeping (can’t find the source) it seems, maybe, this is the first place he would think of to bury EB.

Screenshot of drive to Camp Wabanaki- see attached.

Total drive is ~2.26 Hours

If EB was murdered before 9pm that night, this would imply PB would have made it to the camp around midnight, giving him more than 3 hours to hide her body, leaving the camp around 3:30-4:00AM to be spotted at Haugens BBQ around 5:30-630 and making it back before the auto shop opened.

Screenshot of drive back- see attached.

Total drive is ~2.19 Hours


I couldn’t find any information as to what time the shop opened/first saw her car to fill in the rest of the time frame but the rest of it does kinda work. What do you guys think? @eyesonly I’d love to hear your thoughts, if the area has already been searched/considered.
 

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Hey Lochelowke, thanks for joining in.
My own personal opinions.
I don't believe PB was involved in what happened to EB.
I also don't believe EB's car was up in the lake Scugog area Friday morning.
I'm not convinced PB actually killed anyone and the deaths were by the hands of Karla.
PB was basically an idiot. A very very lucky idiot. Karla was the intelligent one. PB thought he could kidnap a slave girl and then let her go when he was done with her. Karla knew better. She was the one fascinated with death.

As per your possible route travelled if in fact PB was responsible. There wasn't enough gas gone from EB's car to make that trip, unless it stopped and refilled somewhere, which there was never any evidence of. The route and time would of course work if EB was transported by another vehicle.
That area on your maps was never searched as far as I know. I don't believe they went any further northeast than Pt Perry area in the search for EB.

Great line of thinking Lochelowke. Please post any further thoughts or theories, all are welcomed.
All questions are welcomed too and will be answered the best they can be.
 
eyesonly said:
Murder Was The Case

Ten part podcast on the case and interview with RB.
Starts at #90 but there is a brief introduction podcast prior to #90.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting about this. It’s very informative.

RB is going carefully through every detail of his relationship with EB and through the timeline of her disappearance.
 
Whichever way you wish to come back south from Haugens, whether 12 straight down or 9th Concession to Brock Rd., at that time of night or morning if you prefer, it's easily done in less than 45 minutes and is far closer to 35 minutes. I did that drive for years and it beats the gravel trucks along Goodwood and 12 by hours. There is plenty of time to get from Scarborough to Port Perry and back and it's very close to 60 km one way. Those small Toyota's would do that return trip on under $10 of gas and that's today's $10. Back then $10 got you a third a tank on those easy if not more.
 
Lets do the math for s's and g's.

The 1981 Toyota Tercel had a 45L fuel tank. The average mileage for the 2-door coupe with 5 speed manual transmission was 6.27L/100km. If the return trip was 120kms, as per Snively, the car would have used about 7.5 liters of fuel or about 17% of its fuel capacity which is far less than a quarter tank.

Toyota Tercel history and information
 
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