Steven Avery: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's Murder? #2

[Laura Mountford]

Go listen to the call with Barb/Scott talking to SA. I'm sure he thinks SA committed the crime and probably suspects SA coerced BD to help him.

Here's a little quote for ya ...

That's when Scott, who was listening in, started loudly yelling at Avery in an attempt to defend Dassey and himself. "F*ck Steven Avery. He is a piece of ****, he's been all his f*cking life," Scott said. "The only evidence they got is against him and he's trying to gasp for air and blame it on somebody else. He's a f*cking loser. I wasn't even on that property that day, you godd*mn idiot."

ST only started saying that about SA and getting mad at him when KZ had decided to put him forward as a possible suspect. In either panic or anger that SA and his lawyer were now looking into him he became furious with SA and started saying he was a piece of scum and that he hated him. I don't recall ST behaving that way toward SA before he was investigated himself...

 

[Laura Mountford]

The only one who was provably obsessed with TH at ASY was BoD.
But i agree with KZ that others should of been investigated. Definitely TH's ex. who was very suspicious, and had been involved with her intimately for around 5 years of which he didn't admit to LE. Wonder why? Yet he was in amongst her personal stuff after she was missing and had no alibi. He also placed himself in charge of the search etc. for TH.

I agree. He managed to hack into TH phone and didn't he delete voicemails or something? I remember it coming up that he had tried to guess her password several times in court. Also, how many times do you see the killer being the one who leads a search team? That doesn't mean he is the killer but it often happens. They are over compensating and trying too hard to hide in plain sight. Look at Skylar Neese' killers. One of her killers led the search party and put up the missing person posters. Clever and creepy....

 

[missy1974]

I agree. He managed to hack into TH phone and didn't he delete voicemails or something? I remember it coming up that he had tried to guess her password several times in court. Also, how many times do you see the killer being the one who leads a search team? That doesn't mean he is the killer but it often happens. They are over compensating and trying too hard to hide in plain sight. Look at Skylar Neese' killers. One of her killers led the search party and put up the missing person posters. Clever and creepy....

The voicemails ... her brother admitted to accessing them, but didn't think he deleted any. I would have to go back and look now, but at one point during those 3 days before she was reported missing, her VM was full, but then there were messages left after that, so it's a bit confusing. It's possible they self deleted after so many days, but... no one asked Cingular those questions. JMO

The ex said he "guessed" her password to her online cingular account, this is supposedly where they got a printout of her calls that day. It's referenced in the first few pages of the CASO report, where Barb's phone number is listed as belonging to "Steven Avery".

 

[Errrr]

I thought websleuths was about analyzing evidence and court proceedings, not sensationalized, highly edited TV programs?
Maybe people should add some transcripts and evidence disallowed at trial and evidence after trial, to their reading list?
I can see why so many people believe in lottery tickets given that they can believe so many people secretly involved in a conspiracy.

 

[Errrr]

“Of course we left out evidence,” Ricciardi later said at the 2016 Television Critics Association press tour. “There would have been no other way of doing it. We were not putting on a trial, but a film. Of what was omitted, the question is: was it really significant? The secret is no.”

 

[missy1974]

I thought websleuths was about analyzing evidence and court proceedings, not sensationalized, highly edited TV programs?
Maybe people should add some transcripts and evidence disallowed at trial and evidence after trial, to their reading list?
I can see why so many people believe in lottery tickets given that they can believe so many people secretly involved in a conspiracy.

Did you read more than just this thread? There are numerous pages of threads with exactly what you say, transcripts, evidence disallowed at trial, evidence admitted into evidence, all of the appeal documents (which included "new" evidence). The netflix documentary introduced the "story" to many, some have actually gone on to read everything available, some have not, and that includes people that believe they are guilty, those that believe 1 or both are innocent, or that they deserve new trials. There are people that are still requesting information through the FOIA and are still finding things that were not known back in 2006. Interestingly enough, it's why I popped back into the forum.. someone finally figured out when Colborn called in TH's plates.

AC on Twitter

Confirmed: Colborn’s call time is at 9:22pm on November 3rd, 2005

If you need any assistance in finding information, let me know

Most documents can be found here: Steven Avery Trial Transcripts and Documents some of the most recent appeal docs can be found here: Filings | WorkWithKZ

 

[Errrr]

Did you read more than just this thread? There are numerous pages of threads with exactly what you say, transcripts, evidence disallowed at trial, evidence admitted into evidence, all of the appeal documents (which included "new" evidence). The netflix documentary introduced the "story" to many, some have actually gone on to read everything available, some have not, and that includes people that believe they are guilty, those that believe 1 or both are innocent, or that they deserve new trials. There are people that are still requesting information through the FOIA and are still finding things that were not known back in 2006. Interestingly enough, it's why I popped back into the forum.. someone finally figured out when Colborn called in TH's plates.

AC on Twitter

Confirmed: Colborn’s call time is at 9:22pm on November 3rd, 2005

If you need any assistance in finding information, let me know

Most documents can be found here: Steven Avery Trial Transcripts and Documents some of the most recent appeal docs can be found here: Filings | WorkWithKZ

Yes, and I also read “Indefensible” which explains really well how information was manipulated, portrayed and intended. The probability statistics of a frame-up is enough for me though. Maybe that is too complicated to understand though. As I said, a lot of people buy lottery tickets. At least the probability of winning is greater than SA of being innocent!

 

[Errrr]

I believe in the jury. Were they a set-up as well?

 

[missy1974]

Yes, and I also read “Indefensible” which explains really well how information was manipulated, portrayed and intended. The probability statistics of a frame-up is enough for me though. Maybe that is too complicated to understand though. As I said, a lot of people buy lottery tickets. At least the probability of winning is greater than SA of being innocent!

That would be your opinion. Others have a different opinion.

The book by Michael Griesbach also didn't have all the evidence, and it also had factual errors, which I believe he acknowledges IIRC from his AMA's on reddit.

The actual transcripts, documents, photo's, appeals filed, rulings are available, no need to rely on a book or a Netflix series at this point IMO.

I believe in the jury. Were they a set-up as well?

I believe in juries as well, however, I also understand and believe that juries do sometimes get it wrong. Just as an example... Casey Anthony.

Also JMO.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

A judge has rejected a man's bid for a new trial in a Wisconsin killing featured in the Netflix series "Making a Murderer."

Judge Angela Sutkiewicz on Thursday denied Steven Avery's request in the 2005 killing of photographer Teresa Halbach.

Halbach's remains were found in the Avery family's salvage yard. Avery argued the state turned over bones to the Halbach family without notifying the defense, but WLUK-TV reports the judge ruled that does not mean Avery should get a new trial.

Judge Turns Down Steven Avery's Request For New Trial

 

[RookieInvestigator]

A judge has rejected a man's bid for a new trial in a Wisconsin killing featured in the Netflix series "Making a Murderer."

Judge Angela Sutkiewicz on Thursday denied Steven Avery's request in the 2005 killing of photographer Teresa Halbach.

Halbach's remains were found in the Avery family's salvage yard. Avery argued the state turned over bones to the Halbach family without notifying the defense, but WLUK-TV reports the judge ruled that does not mean Avery should get a new trial.

Judge Turns Down Steven Avery's Request For New Trial

Was that the same judge Zellner asked to be removed from the case?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Was that the same judge Zellner asked to be removed from the case?

The motion also calls for Judge Angela Sutkiewicz to remove herself from presiding over the Avery case in circuit court. Zellner says Sutkiewicz lacks the ability to be impartial.

Steven Avery's attorney requests new trial, new judge

 

[missy1974]

A judge has rejected a man's bid for a new trial in a Wisconsin killing featured in the Netflix series "Making a Murderer."

Judge Angela Sutkiewicz on Thursday denied Steven Avery's request in the 2005 killing of photographer Teresa Halbach.

Halbach's remains were found in the Avery family's salvage yard. Avery argued the state turned over bones to the Halbach family without notifying the defense, but WLUK-TV reports the judge ruled that does not mean Avery should get a new trial.

Judge Turns Down Steven Avery's Request For New Trial

I don't think this was unexpected at all. I have not read the decision yet myself, but from what I have read about others opinions.... the judge made some leaps to come to the decision that she did. I'm not sure how it can be that the bones aren't human so it was okay to give them to the family. If I was the family, I would be PISSED right now! But that's JMO.

This will just get added to the ever growing list to add to the appeal. If the appeals court decided that any of the issues warrant a second look, this decision may also allow for a new judge as well if it goes back to the lower courts.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I don't think this was unexpected at all. I have not read the decision yet myself, but from what I have read about others opinions.... the judge made some leaps to come to the decision that she did. I'm not sure how it can be that the bones aren't human so it was okay to give them to the family. If I was the family, I would be PISSED right now! But that's JMO.

This will just get added to the ever growing list to add to the appeal. If the appeals court decided that any of the issues warrant a second look, this decision may also allow for a new judge as well if it goes back to the lower courts.

Agreed!

 

[Intutive26]

I think Steven Avery is absolutely innocent as well as Brandon. I think it was a total frame job. I think it’s awesome Kathleen Zellner has the case now but I knew they were innocent after seeing the first making of a murderer. I think the men who are suppose to uphold the law are a disgrace to their badges and everything they stand for. How do they sleep at night? And if there’s a hell they all are going there for what they have done to Steven and his family. It’s appalling and a disgrace to our justice system. I only hope it falls in the right hands or someone has a conscience and tells all the dirty disgusting little lies that’s been going on all these years. My votes on Zellner to find the justice for this man and his family. <modsnip - namecalling> I hope he gets out and everyone that had part in lying and played a part in this witch hunt gets exactly what they deserve. Some deserve to be where Steven is. In prison, shame on those sheriffs that took an oath. Prosecutors and even psychologists, the detectives, all of them should be ashamed of themselves. They know the truth and they sit there and play as if they don’t. They all just don’t want to get in trouble for there part they played in convicting an innocent man. Makes my blood boil and just sick to my stomach.

 

[Errrr]

That would be your opinion. Others have a different opinion.

The book by Michael Griesbach also didn't have all the evidence, and it also had factual errors, which I believe he acknowledges IIRC from his AMA's on reddit.

The actual transcripts, documents, photo's, appeals filed, rulings are available, no need to rely on a book or a Netflix series at this point IMO.



I believe in juries as well, however, I also understand and believe that juries do sometimes get it wrong. Just as an example... Casey Anthony.

Also JMO.

Actually, probability statistics are not considered opinion. They are scientific facts, just like DNA and fingerprints are never expressed as 100% but with a probability of error.

 

[missy1974]

Actually, probability statistics are not considered opinion. They are scientific facts, just like DNA and fingerprints are never expressed as 100% but with a probability of error.

I was addressing your "opinion" of Griesbach's book, I do believe that is your opinion that it "explains it really well".

Yes, and I also read “Indefensible” which explains really well how information was manipulated, portrayed and intended.

What do you think the probability statistics were in Avery's first case? What do you think the probablilty statistics are in other cases where the accused was exonerated? Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying, but because the "stats" aren't on his side doesn't mean it didn't happen. JMO

 

[Errrr]

I was addressing your "opinion" of Griesbach's book, I do believe that is your opinion that it "explains it really well".



What do you think the probability statistics were in Avery's first case? What do you think the probablilty statistics are in other cases where the accused was exonerated? Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying, but because the "stats" aren't on his side doesn't mean it didn't happen. JMO

I think Avery got screwed in the first case. It doesn’t make him innocent of subsequent cases though. My original inquiry was that; does being guilty in the second case prevent him from collecting on a lawsuit in the first case?

 

[missy1974]

I think Avery got screwed in the first case. It doesn’t make him innocent of subsequent cases though. My original inquiry was that; does being guilty in the second case prevent him from collecting on a lawsuit in the first case?

I think this is where some of the debate comes in about whether or not a "frame job" or maybe planting of a few pieces of evidence to "help" was possibly done in the second case because of the lawsuit that was filed and in full swing with depositions being done at the time. I would guess that the lawsuit could have gone ahead but I am not sure if his lawyers were not as confident because of the charges (he wasn't convicted when they settled) or if it came down to settling so he could hire better lawyers. Regardless, he settled in Feb 2006 so we will never know.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Attorney for Stephen Avery announces $100K reward for arrest, conviction of 'real' Halbach killer