Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

[PingTheRouter]

Rolling back to the facts here.... apart from the recently disclosed cap (likely to be Theo's but not confirmed), and the phone route published by News Corp that no one has confirmed or denied, here is something that the parents just told echonetdaily and posted on the FB page LFTH:

Grey cap like Théo’s found near Tallow Beach
Eve Jeffery
[... ]

‘There are many theories circulating and some of them are plausible. We have spoken about some of those theories before but they remain theories. We need solid evidence so we must give investigators the opportunity to gather and verify that evidence.
‘We do believe that there are witnesses that haven’t yet come forward. We believe that Théo did not spend the early hours of June 1 alone.

BBM

So this is confirmed - there was someone, and apparently that someone has not come forward.

IMO Suspect#1 ....

pressuring the suspect i bet, they would be monitoring developments in the case possibly for an escape route when things became too hot or to confess i mean i am not sure why i always go negative side first

 

[Sambam89]

We do believe that there are witnesses that haven’t yet come forward. We believe that Théo did not spend the early hours of June 1 alone.

Yes and if any witness happens to be a drug dealer or in that type of circle, I’m sure they won’t come forward.

 

[Via Marple]

Yes and if any witness happens to be a drug dealer or in that type of circle, I’m sure they won’t come forward.

Or simply, contributed in some way to his disappearance.

 

[PingTheRouter]

Yes and if any witness happens to be a drug dealer or in that type of circle, I’m sure they won’t come forward.

i just find it so hard to believe that someone would cause indirectly or directly someone death over $50 worth of weed or something backpackers are not known to carry much cash so i mean
i get why people are jumping to this its byron bay, big hippe and liberal type place, very known as a weed culture within australia ( what surf town isnt really )

 

[Sambam89]

i just find it so hard to believe that someone would cause indirectly or directly someone death over $50 worth of weed or something backpackers are not known to carry much cash so i mean
i get why people are jumping to this its byron bay, big hippe and liberal type place, very known as a weed culture within australia ( what surf town isnt really )

It could have been an accident, but if they are a dealer or whatever they probably were too scared to bring attention to themselves or panicked in the moment maybe they were high and paranoid themselves, and so hid his body and it’s too late to come forward after that really.. I dunno, fear would stop many people coming forward for any reason.

 

[mussopossum]

Very possible someone he had arrangements with someone from Cheeky Monkey's already. He knew where he was going before he looked on his phone, he looked like he was walking with a purpose and maybe going to meet someone, so went there on the back streets and waited for them. Surely police would be checking out anyone who left after him. They asked for any cam footage from Tennyson St. which is a clue and he walked right to end of it where it ends then turned back to walk across the oval, then up and down behind the tennis courts.
It is so unlikely he made any arrangements before he went to Cheeky's as he would not have known he was going to be asked to leave at 11.00, yet was already walking down Kingsley before he pulled out his phone. So did he have opportunity to tell anyone he was being kicked out before he left? Did someone say in his ear "I will meet you after I finish my drink at such and such place?" after seeing he was being asked to leave? Now even though it appears he had no money on him, using his card just maybe he had a $50 or a note tucked away for the exact purpose of buying a bit of pot so he was not touching it. It is a possibility. Not sure how Byron is but without doubt there would be dealers hanging around places like Cheeky's, known for tourists coming in. I know in Nimbin it takes no longer than a few minutes to be approached by dealers selling pot. So very possible at Cheeky's someone offered, Theo agreed to get some before leaving and seeing Theo had to leave sooner they went and met somewhere private, at the end of Tennyson or behind the tennis courts. Why go to Tallow beach in middle of night? Was it a random idea? An adventure? Or did whoever he was with have something stashed there? If on foot and selling anything and go to a club (if he came from Cheeky's) then he/she would have been unlikely to be carrying drugs on their person.
I am just thinking of possibilities, not saying this is what happened or that drugs were involved, just that cannot rule it out. There could have been a dealer sitting at Cheeky's and it does appear that Theo somehow already had plans by the way he walked and used his phone after already going in that direction. He has only been in Byron for a few days so his circle of people he knew would not have been big. If he wanted some pot for instance, he could have asked a random person at Cheeky's or was approached by one. They met up and walked to beach.
Well if this is the case then if the other person/people with him carried a mobile it should be an easy job for the police to match up location data. If no phone on them well it could be harder to prove they were with Theo or in the same location.
Now the part that interest me along Theo's route he seems to have crossed the road at Carlyle St. There is an accommodation place right there and looking at close up photos on Google his route puts him pretty much as if he walked part way up the drive. Did he know someone staying there? I have included my rough map compared to the one in the paper and highlighted the area in yellow. You can see he was right there, not just on the curb or edge but seemed to walk in a fair way where this accommodation place is. Other backpackers there maybe that he met?

It does appear he has crossed the road yes. Into that accomodation I’m not sure. It appears to be a lodging place and looks like a house that may either lodge people or whole house for rent. Didn’t find much on it on the website. It is strange he does the loop from the field onto Carlyle st then onto Cowper and heads off. It appears that he is looking for something or lost. But like the turn up the end Tennyson st. Could be that he was waiting outside for someone there. I have attached area he loops in at Cowper and Carlyle

 

[mussopossum]

It could have been in passing as simple as the other boy from Wake Up maybe asked if Theo had any cash on him to help pay for his entry into CM’s, and so Theo said no I’ve only got enough for me and my card mate sorry, to get out of paying for him. I often do then when people try to ask me to buy stuff for them, especially people I don’t know. Got no cash on me, sorry.

When pesky charity workers chase me up the street that’s my number one response (other than bugger off) is sorry no cash on me! Sorry just bit humour

 

[mussopossum]

Rolling back to the facts here.... apart from the recently disclosed cap (likely to be Theo's but not confirmed), and the phone route published by News Corp that no one has confirmed or denied, here is something that the parents just told echonetdaily and posted on the FB page LFTH:

Grey cap like Théo’s found near Tallow Beach
Eve Jeffery
[... ]

‘There are many theories circulating and some of them are plausible. We have spoken about some of those theories before but they remain theories. We need solid evidence so we must give investigators the opportunity to gather and verify that evidence.
‘We do believe that there are witnesses that haven’t yet come forward. We believe that Théo did not spend the early hours of June 1 alone.

BBM

So this is confirmed - there was someone, and apparently that someone has not come forward.

IMO Suspect#1 ....

ETA there is a recent photo of the family of 3 too. They look reasonably positive.

"So this is confirmed - there was someone, and apparently that someone has not come forward.

IMO Suspect#1 ...."

And further to your comment Marple, most likely why the police are desperate to obtain and read that last message on Whats App between Theo and the unknown.

I thought originally it was said though that with Whats App they can see a user to a user, IE who sent who a message or a phone number sent a message to another phone number, they just cannot read the message sent due to encryption?

It was confirmed that Whats App were cooperating with police and had handed over information however confirmed that they are unable to provide any messages sent de to the encryptions, even if they wanted to.

Do you consider your referal to suspect #1 could be the mystery Whats App person and may be the person that could have been with Theo that night?

From this below article / link they discuss what information they can provide with their terms of service.

WhatsApp assisting police in Hayez investigation – Echonetdaily

‘We understand the important work being carried out by law enforcement and are assisting them in accordance with applicable law and our terms of service.” – WhatsApp spokesperson

‘In this case, we have provided information to international law enforcement officials,’ they said. ‘While we can’t access encrypted conversations, end-to-end encrypted platforms do have some limited information about users that they collect in order to provide their service.

WhatsApp has published Information for Law Enforcement Authorities that outlines the kinds of information they can disclose when they receive a valid legal request. ‘This may include (if available): name, service start date, last seen date, IP address, email address, profile photo, numbers blocking or blocked by the user or other basic subscriber information about the account, not including the contents of communication.’

 

[Matlock]

It could have been an accident, but if they are a dealer or whatever they probably were too scared to bring attention to themselves or panicked in the moment maybe they were high and paranoid themselves, and so hid his body and it’s too late to come forward after that really.. I dunno, fear would stop many people coming forward for any reason.

Likely any witness has been threatened. In the murder case near where I live I overheard someone being seriously threatened later that night. A witness did contact police at one stage but never contacted them again even though there is a million dollar reward. I think he was likely killed because he spoke to the police.

Police wouldn't be worrying so much about small time drug dealing at this point, so I don't think that would be a big reason for not speaking up. But you would not speak up of someone has seriously threatened you.

 

[Via Marple]

"So this is confirmed - there was someone, and apparently that someone has not come forward.

IMO Suspect#1 ...."

And further to your comment Marple, most likely why the police are desperate to obtain and read that last message on Whats App between Theo and the unknown.

I thought originally it was said though that with Whats App they can see a user to a user, IE who sent who a message or a phone number sent a message to another phone number, they just cannot read the message sent due to encryption?

It was confirmed that Whats App were cooperating with police and had handed over information however confirmed that they are unable to provide any messages sent de to the encryptions, even if they wanted to.

Do you consider your referal to suspect #1 could be the mystery Whats App person and may be the person that could have been with Theo that night?

From this below article / link they discuss what information they can provide with their terms of service.

WhatsApp assisting police in Hayez investigation – Echonetdaily

‘We understand the important work being carried out by law enforcement and are assisting them in accordance with applicable law and our terms of service.” – WhatsApp spokesperson

‘In this case, we have provided information to international law enforcement officials,’ they said. ‘While we can’t access encrypted conversations, end-to-end encrypted platforms do have some limited information about users that they collect in order to provide their service.

WhatsApp has published Information for Law Enforcement Authorities that outlines the kinds of information they can disclose when they receive a valid legal request. ‘This may include (if available): name, service start date, last seen date, IP address, email address, profile photo, numbers blocking or blocked by the user or other basic subscriber information about the account, not including the contents of communication.’

I raise this mystery companion as a suspect, because we now know very likely Theo had company (which was not disclosed before). And this person has not come forward. Not that it's known that they had used WhatsApp that night.

You know I am not allowed to discuss Nick's theories until he gets verified....

But yeah since Theo was booted out of CM unexpectedly, how did he find company so quickly and locally? All his mates were still inside CM, and there must be plenty of evidence to prove that. So he must have used his phone to contact some one else. I guess WhatsApp is also app of choice for shady characters too..

And the data provided by WhatsApp cannot help police to identify the other party. I had wondered if they had kept contacts' phone numbers, but apparently not. Message contents are encrypted and not kept by WhatsApp.

So - drug dealers are all we can think of?

 

[bearbear]

with police saying that theo wasnt alone that night, it doesnt mean he was with someone willingly, it could just as easily be unwanted company

 

[Ann764]

The delay in DNA results as they would also trying to obtain any other person/persons DNA and trying to eliminate known people he came in to contact with and hopefully DNA of anyone who may have been involved in his disappearance if they match any on the system etc. I agree they the police know more than they are sharing hopefully they are closing in now

 

[Ann764]

The message he sent to a friend in Belgium makes it seem that at that time after 12 he was not aware or any immediate danger As he would have used the operator alert someone at this time. If weed/ laced etc would fit that he is sitting somewhere at that time .after that is when things go wrong. Perhaps adverse reaction , scuffle etc and ultimately what lea to his disappearance

 

[mussopossum]

I raise this mystery companion as a suspect, because we now know very likely Theo had company (which was not disclosed before). And this person has not come forward. Not that it's known that they had used WhatsApp that night.

You know I am not allowed to discuss Nick's theories until he gets verified....

But yeah since Theo was booted out of CM unexpectedly, how did he find company so quickly and locally? All his mates were still inside CM, and there must be plenty of evidence to prove that. So he must have used his phone to contact some one else. I guess WhatsApp is also app of choice for shady characters too..

And the data provided by WhatsApp cannot help police to identify the other party. I had wondered if they had kept contacts' phone numbers, but apparently not. Message contents are encrypted and not kept by WhatsApp.

So - drug dealers are all we can think of?

All I can think of is someone else met at the hostel who was in contact and promised a party at the beach, having been kicked out of CM and happy after a few drinks he might have not felt like going home so messaged the person to meet him. I really dont know, I just have no logical explanation as to why he was messaging on his phone the second he turned that corner and went where he did.

We dont know if he was receiving or sending messages inside at CM during his time there to meet up later with anyone. Like it was said earlier he deliberately went that direction as he was booted out of CM. When asked to leave CM they would have pushed him out as soon as they could and due to their 50m rule that you cannot be within 50m of the premises if kicked out it means that he would not have had time to message anyone at this point as he was asked to leave.

If it was a text message/ sms then i presume that they have retrived all sms sent whilst he had been in Byron Bay or even just phone numbers that he received and sent sms. We dont know if his phone sim was an Australian one or one from Belgium and he had international roaming set and I wonder if this is why the Belgian police came to help with access to that data.

 

[Ann764]

They reported that is was a Facebook message about music/ bands messaged to a family/ friend in Belgium. The message so he was using Facebook hence gps tracking. It’s not to say that he didn’t send up in a car or house. He was walking rather unsteady when last seen . If lost he could have been offered ride or gone somewhere to wait to he given directions. His phone done not pin ( move towers apparently until the following day suggests he was in the cbd area or at least his phone was. The delay in official search being launched is. The biggest concern and days of inclement weather etc pivotal to collecting evidence in a timely manner. It suggests police are waiting as mentioned previously here for someone to slip up or or even return to site. Etc

 

[mussopossum]

Theo left CM at 11pm

He sent a message to a friend in Belgium just after midnight

The walk from CM to Cosy corner is about 35 min. This is by walking the road not the track. So if his intention was to go to Cosy corner why did he go through the bush and not on the road?

Give or take the additional time to go through the bush lets say an extra what 15 min? That still comes out about 50 min or so.

So appears when messaged friend after midnight he was either alone or in good spirits and no alarm bells (that we know), then the rest is history.

If there is any suspician of foul play by police,,,,
And he had been reported missing sooner I do wonder if valuable evidence at Cosy corner and the track may have been available, such as foot prints, drag marks, his belongings, blood, cigarette butts, drink cans, collapsed sand dune areas etc.

The amount of people who would have walked through there afterwards plus all the rain we had unfortunately could have taken any evidence with it.

 

[Ann764]

Theo left CM at 11pm

He sent a message to a friend in Belgium just after midnight

The walk from CM to Cosy corner is about 35 min. This is by walking the road not the track. So if his intention was to go to Cosy corner why did he go through the bush and not on the road?

Give or take the additional time to go through the bush lets say an extra what 15 min? That still comes out about 50 min or so.

So appears when messaged friend after midnight he was either alone or in good spirits and no alarm bells (that we know), then the rest is history.

If there is any suspician of foul play by police,,,,
And he had been reported missing sooner I do wonder if valuable evidence at Cosy corner and the track may have been available, such as foot prints, drag marks, his belongings, blood, cigarette butts, drink cans, collapsed sand dune areas etc.

The amount of people who would have walked through there afterwards plus all the rain we had unfortunately could have taken any evidence with it.

View attachment 194281

If he went to Cosy corner that evening you would predict his phone would have pinged earlier as it moved from cbd tower to cape . It seems strange to say the least which suggests his phone was disgarded the following day.

 

[Matlock]

The message he sent to a friend in Belgium makes it seem that at that time after 12 he was not aware or any immediate danger As he would have used the operator alert someone at this time. If weed/ laced etc would fit that he is sitting somewhere at that time .after that is when things go wrong. Perhaps adverse reaction , scuffle etc and ultimately what lea to his disappearance

You would think that he would have smoked marijuana previously and know from last time if he had any bad kind of reaction. I mean of it was so bad to cause what's happened this time then the last time couldn't have been too good either could it?

And would you have to go all the way on that long, complicated and dangerous walk in the dark into the bush just to get marajuana? Surely it would have been available easily elsewhere in town? Maybe it was a more exotic drug he was using for the first time (if the drug theory is true that is) and he had to go to those great lengths to get it (through bush tracks at midnight, no moon etc?. There had to be a point to this)

I read that magic mushrooms can cause someone to panic and they can also be accidently mixed with poisonous mushrooms. It could have been something like this that he tried perhaps? (again if the drug theory is true)

As for him being affected by alchohol which isn't a good mix with drugs, I think most of it would have worn off by then unless they had more there to give him maybe.

 

[Ann764]

You would think that he would have smoked marijuana previously and know from last time if he had any bad kind of reaction. I mean of it was so bad to cause what's happened this time then the last time couldn't have been too good either could it?

And would you have to go all the way on that long, complicated and dangerous walk in the dark into the bush just to get marajuana? Surely it would have been available easily elsewhere in town? Maybe it was a more exotic drug he was using for the first time (if the drug theory is true that is) and he had to go to those great lengths to get it (through bush tracks at midnight, no moon etc?. There had to be a point to this)

I read that magic mushrooms can cause someone to panic and they can also be accidently mixed with poisonous mushrooms. It could have been something like this that he tried perhaps? (again if the drug theory is true)

As for him being affected by alchohol which isn't a good mix with drugs, I think most of it would have worn off by then unless they had more there to give him maybe.

If drugs were involved it could have been a spiked joint etc.

 

[PingTheRouter]

If drugs were involved it could have been a spiked joint etc.

this kind of stuff really doesn't happen, dealers don't sell spiked joints or weed otherwise people won't come back and buy more its bad for business

there was rumors for years about heroin or other things like PCP mixed into weed but this happened in the states and never really much in Australia so its really not a great avenue to go down for this case