CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Australian & Chynna Deese, American, murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #2

[Inthedetails]

If they were posed, is there some significance to north and west? Northwest Territories is what I see on a map.

My hunch, fwiw, is that the compass directions of the bodies don't mean anything, but the fact they were organized does. The perp wants to be in control by telling his victims what to do and is "neat" about his work, imo. He didn't cover them and I don't think other bearded victim was covered either. Maybe he displayed them that way after killing them or he ordered them into position, we don't know. But either way, he decided to organize them and display his work.

jmo

 

[Betty P]

Serial killers certainly capture the public’s fascination but on the other hand I think two (or more) murderers uncaptured is worse than one. Anyone capable of committing a senseless murder is dangerous and two dangerous lunatics are worse than one.

But I do have confidence the RCMP will get to the bottom of what’s occurred and justice will be served....it’s just a matter of time.

I suspect the RCMP is getting a lot of help now. Besides Lucas dad's investigators, the FBI was mentioned, too. RCMP isn't going to say much publicly (for good reason) but JMO a lot more resources have been applied to solving these murders in recent days. If FBI is on the job, we won't hear about it until after the arrests.

When the Rhoden Family Murders of 8 people happened in Ohio 3 yrs ago, the family of killers ended up moving to Alaska during the investigation. We were convinced nothing was happening, that they had gotten away clean. Now that trials are starting, its being revealed that FBI and other LE were trailing them all through the US and Canada up to AK. Never heard a word about it at the time.

I'm guessing and hoping that the highways, roads, parks, businessess up there are now being monitored by many undercover LE.

 

[Herat]

My hunch, fwiw, is that the compass directions of the bodies don't mean anything, but the fact they were organized does. The perp wants to be in control by telling his victims what to do and is "neat" about his work, imo. He didn't cover them and I don't think other bearded victim was covered either. Maybe he displayed them that way after killing them or he ordered them into position, we don't know. But either way, he decided to organize them and display his work

Without more specifics from LE I don't really think this was ritualistic.

I think this was just to move the bodies from the vehicle so he could loot it.

It would be most interesting to hear what all LE thinks he took: Cash, wallets, CC, phones, maps, food, water, sleeping bags? extra gas can? clothing?

 

[kmclaren]

And that is yet another mystery...a caretaker who went missing when the hotel burned down. Thread here for him as well. Michael Draeger from the Old Plaza Hotel in Victoria. Fire was in early May of this year. After the sketch was released, some have stated it looks like him.

Michael Draeger's thread: CANADA - Canada - Michael Draeger, 60s, Victoria BC, May 2019 *hotel arson fire*

 

[otto]

The text of the article doesn't state that they were sighted AT Liard Hot Springs.

In fact, no other reports state they were there. Including LE. That would be a really critical piece of information, if verified.

If they were there, they would have had to turn around and drive south, and then turn around again and drive back up north, as their van was found off the side of the northbound lane, facing north.

It seems that one reporter came up with the idea that maybe they were seen at a lodge at the hot springs, and somehow that has become a fuzzy fact.

What police have said so far is that they were stopped at the side of the road with vehicle trouble, and they were seen by several witnesses in the afternoon and evening at that location. They were found on Monday morning at that same location.

 

[eahatzopoulos]

Without more specifics from LE I don't really think this was ritualistic.

I think this was just to move the bodies from the vehicle so he could loot it.

It would be most interesting to hear what all LE thinks he took: Cash, wallets, CC, phones, maps, food, water, sleeping bags? extra gas can? clothing?

This is interesting; is it possible part of the purpose was to loot unsuspecting travellers? Lure them in with the possibility of work or some other commodity? Regardless of whether or not the cases are linked, it maybe SEEMS unlikely that all three sets of individuals "happened" upon someone wanting to do them harm.

Both Kam and Bryer (two of the four men who have disappeared) were travelling to look for work. Did they maybe make a contact? Did he arrange to meet them in an area known to him? Is this a possible comfort zone?

I'm unsure, but are there forums or FB sites or something of the like where travellers look to make contact re: work?

 

[HockeyMom330]

I believe the last sighting of the camper belonging to K & B was about 3:15 at a gas station south of Dese Lake and they were verified as being there in person.

You're right. Thanks for reminding me. I, probably like all of us here, am trying my best to follow at least 2 fast-moving threads.

Can someone please remind me on what date at 3:15pm was the last verified sighting of the teens with their camper truck? I'm trying to figure out where/when they might have been separated from their vehicle. I realize this is not their thread, but if the cases are connected, I'd love to see an integrated timeline of their movements along with those of CD and LF.

 

[otto]

Can someone please remind me on what date at 3:15pm was the last verified sighting of the teens with their camper truck? I'm trying to figure out where/when they might have been separated from their vehicle. I realize this is not their thread, but if the cases are connected, I'd love to see an integrated timeline of their movements along with those of CD and LF.

Thursday, July 18 they were seen at a gas station at Dease Lake, turning South. Their burned van was found 50km South on Friday, July 19.

 

[Betty P]

Without more specifics from LE I don't really think this was ritualistic.

I think this was just to move the bodies from the vehicle so he could loot it.

It would be most interesting to hear what all LE thinks he took: Cash, wallets, CC, phones, maps, food, water, sleeping bags? extra gas can? clothing?

I'm sure they're tracking everyone's cell phone, GPS, etc. Also assume, if possible, they're checking nearby towers for cell phones and GPS picked up in the area. It might be a lot of data to sort through, but hopefully the killer had a cell phone and possibly took the phones of the victims with him.

 

[otto]

July 13 : couple at Hudson Hope ranch
July 13 : 7:45PM, couple at Fort Nelson gas station
July 14 : couple stranded on side of hwy 20km South of Liard Hot Spring (approx 4PM)
July 14 : stranded couple seen in evening (maybe 11:30PM) with stranger
July 15 : couple found murdered, 7:19AM
July 17 : 2 men last seen in Surrey (suburb of Vancouver), Jeep
July 18 : teens at Dease Lake gas station, 3:15PM
July 19 : teens camper truck burning 50km South of Dease Lake
July 19 : unidentified man, 2km South of burning vehicle
July 22 : jeep found at Logan Lake (near Kamloops), men missing

 

[zecats]

Can someone please remind me on what date at 3:15pm was the last verified sighting of the teens with their camper truck? I'm trying to figure out where/when they might have been separated from their vehicle. I realize this is not their thread, but if the cases are connected, I'd love to see an integrated timeline of their movements along with those of CD and LF.

Thursday July 18 is what I've read in MSM.

"They were last seen in Dease Lake on Thursday traveling in a red and grey Dodge pickup truck with a sleeping camper."

RCMP seeking missing teens after vehicle fire and body found

 

[eahatzopoulos]

This is interesting; is it possible part of the purpose was to loot unsuspecting travellers? Lure them in with the possibility of work or some other commodity? Regardless of whether or not the cases are linked, it maybe SEEMS unlikely that all three sets of individuals "happened" upon someone wanting to do them harm.

Both Kam and Bryer (two of the four men who have disappeared) were travelling to look for work. Did they maybe make a contact? Did he arrange to meet them in an area known to him? Is this a possible comfort zone?

I'm unsure, but are there forums or FB sites or something of the like where travellers look to make contact re: work?

The map itself is also interesting. The map places Kam and Bryer's burning camper truck along the Stewart-Csiar Hwy (Hwy 37) in addition to the body they are working to identify. Lucas and Chynna were found along Hwy 97, the Alaska Highway. Both highways seemingly intersect in Southern Yukon. Let's say for the sake of argument someone travelled from the Watson Lake or Upper Liard region of the Yukon. Dease Lake is approximately 246 km SW. Liard is approximately 221 km SE. For someone moving NS, this isn't an inconceivable feat. The only way these two sites connect is along those highways.

 

[zecats]

The map itself is also interesting. The map places Kam and Bryer's burning camper truck along the Stewart-Csiar Hwy (Hwy 37) in addition to the body they are working to identify. Lucas and Chynna were found along Hwy 97, the Alaska Highway. Both highways seemingly intersect in Southern Yukon. Let's say for the sake of argument someone travelled from the Watson Lake or Upper Liard region of the Yukon. Dease Lake is approximately 246 km SW. Liard is approximately 221 km SE. For someone moving NS, this isn't an inconceivable feat. The only way these two sites connect is along those highways.

And the teen boys were supposedly headed to the Yukon. Family unsure why they were back in BC.

 

[daikon.radish]

Good grief, you’re all very chatty today! It’s taken ages to catch up after being away all day.

Now I’m confused about a second POI - first Whisenand, then now Brandon Texiera? Where did the second man come from? I’ll do my own checking but halp!

@Tarika, no, go to upper BC on your holiday! You can be our “woman on the ground” if things are still unsolved by then.

 

[HockeyMom330]

This is interesting; is it possible part of the purpose was to loot unsuspecting travellers? Lure them in with the possibility of work or some other commodity? Regardless of whether or not the cases are linked, it maybe SEEMS unlikely that all three sets of individuals "happened" upon someone wanting to do them harm.

Both Kam and Bryer (two of the four men who have disappeared) were travelling to look for work. Did they maybe make a contact? Did he arrange to meet them in an area known to him? Is this a possible comfort zone?

I'm unsure, but are there forums or FB sites or something of the like where travellers look to make contact re: work?

BBM

I read in a Times Colonist article that the teens had worked for 5 weeks at Walmart to save money for their 'adventure' but also that they were headed to Whitehorse looking for work that didn't pan out, and read that they were possibly looking for work elsewhere in BC or Alberta. So was this a holiday or a job-seeking mission? Did they have a contact or job already lined up? In the age of the internet don't most people search for and apply for jobs online...and then possibly travel for an interview? With the price of gas in BC being what it is it would cost a fortune to run that old camper around 2 provinces and a territory. Walmart wages are not high, so I'd assume they may have been low on money for fuel, food, and lodging. This could have made the teens vulnerable to a stranger, possibly the same one who harmed CD and LF.

 

[thebedbug]

I have tried to read every post, but sorry if I have missed this being answered.

I've read that one woman drove by them in the afternoon of July 14 and didn't feel comfortable stopping but did call the police. Do we know what happened from that call? Did police come out and chat with them?

As far as we know - they did not.

 

[eahatzopoulos]

BBM

I read in a Times Colonist article that the teens had worked for 5 weeks at Walmart to save money for their 'adventure' but also that they were headed to Whitehorse looking for work that didn't pan out, and read that they were possibly looking for work elsewhere in BC or Alberta. So was this a holiday or a job-seeking mission? Did they have a contact or job already lined up? In the age of the internet don't most people search for and apply for jobs online...and then possibly travel for an interview? With the price of gas in BC being what it is it would cost a fortune to run that old camper around 2 provinces and a territory. Walmart wages are not high, so I'd assume they may have been low on money for fuel, food, and lodging. This could have made the teens vulnerable to a stranger, possibly the same one who harmed CD and LF.

Absolutely. I did a quick search on Kijiji to see what "kind" of jobs would be posted in that region. Some posts were looking for one or two individuals to do some sort of labour work, with accommodations and transportation supplied. Many of these gigs don't require previous experience and to simply email if interested.

A possible theory could involve folks finding a similar posting on some sort of site and subsequently meeting up with an individual.

 

[Zella]

Thanks to whoever posted the timeline regarding witnesses! Seems like they encountered a fair number of cars while they were broke down. I had wondered if the road supervisor who saw someone arguing with them was the last to see them alive, and that seems to be the case.

Fowler had a small wound, he said, but he couldn’t tell what had caused it. Once again, it is odd that Chynna’s condition was not described by Pierre.

However, a link was posted in the first thread that quoted Chynna’s brother indicating that “The injuries inflicted were so “brutal”, Ms Deese’s heartbroken brother said the family was told an open casket would not be allowed at her funeral.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-centre-of-2-northern-b-c-mysteries-1.5221041

SBM
I was a little surprised that Fowler's wound was described as small. It seems like CD took the brunt of the assault. I don't know if that's because she was the intended target and LF was just collateral damage to get to her. He also may have been killed first and suddenly--though am I not correct her body was closer to the van?--which made her fight.

I don't like typing what I just typed because I can't imagine how frightening their last moments were. From what I have seen, they seem like a sweet couple who genuinely loved each other and wasn't bothering anyone.

This explains how he could know she had been beautiful even though a closed casket would be required. He actually saw her prior to the attack.

SBM. Good catch.

I know finding them had to be traumatizing on its own, but knowing he had just seen them the previous day I'm sure made it even worse. I'm sure everyone who passed by feels guilty, but they had no way of knowing what was going to happen.

All MOO.

 

[HockeyMom330]

July 13 : couple at Hudson Hope ranch
July 13 : 7:45PM, couple at Fort Nelson gas station
July 14 : couple stranded on side of hwy 20km South of Liard Hot Spring (approx 4PM)
July 14 : stranded couple seen in evening (maybe 11:30PM) with stranger
July 15 : couple found murdered, 7:19AM
July 17 : 2 men last seen in Surrey (suburb of Vancouver), Jeep
July 18 : teens at Dease Lake gas station, 3:15PM
July 19 : teens camper truck burning 50km South of Dease Lake
July 19 : unidentified man, 2km South of burning vehicle
July 22 : jeep found at Logan Lake (near Kamloops), men missing

Just adding that at approx 8:00pm (July 14) Pierre saw the couple alive and well (not sure if he interacted with them or just noticed them on the side of the road). He is the same fellow who was called out to check on their bodies the next morning.

 

[TheSecondLaw]

Just adding that at approx 8:00pm (July 14) Pierre saw the couple alive and well (not sure if he interacted with them or just noticed them on the side of the road). He is the same fellow who was called out to check on their bodies the next morning.

I never saw a timeframe for the woman who passed Lucas and Chynna 20 mins apart from her Husband. However since we've learnt of the sightings by the road crew later in the evening, that witness sighting is perhaps not so crucial to piecing together the overall time flow of events.