CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #6

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
otto said:
We know that RCMP needed 3 days to identify the victims. That is a very long time in terms of solving a crime. I'm pretty sure that the coroner sorted out that they were shot as soon as he was with the bodies.

From my perspective, the delay in identification of the victims gave the teens an huge head start, and changed the nature and scope of the investigation.
Click to expand...
Agree with your logic on this topic.

The press did jump on the story relatively quickly and some of the more intrepid journalists asked about the possiblity of a serial killer and this put the RCMP on alert and perhaps it also stopped them from releasing any information early in the process as this seems to be their default MO. It wasn't really until the press started talking about public safety of tourists and residents that more info started to be shared but it was in drips and drabs.

Going back and reading the initial articles on the 'missing' story, I truly wonder if RCMP knew earlier than we might even be giving them credit for about what they were dealing with in this case? It seems like RCMP came up the missing narrative in this case and not the families of the 2 suspects. The reason I wonder this is because we have no evidence that any of the family of either of the two suspects ever filed missing reports or even contacted RCMP or local police in BC. We just have the early statements of BS father talking about his son being missing and perhaps heading to the woods to hide, but those statements didn't sound like BS father had reported him missing either. Reading those early 'missing' articles now, it seems like the RCMP declared the two missing and then called their parents/family to confirm. MOO but going back and reading these articles again left me seeing now that from the beginning this wasn't a missing case.

I am curious though about why the RCMP made the choices they did in terms of the info flow to the public as if I recall there was another delay that lasted until the 2nd Press Briefing when the RCMP made the statement that 'gun violence' was involved.

So you have the initial ID delay and another COD delay that related IMO clearly to public safety issues.
 
Murphy1950 said:
Wow, I have read so many stories and post.....couldn't believe that hasn't been confirmed, thought it was me. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I believe at the 3rd Press Briefing as the Press Officer was walking off the podium that one of the reporters asked the question but the Press Officer just kept on walking out of the room.
 
Today’s NY Times story quotes Clint Sawchuk, a Manitoba Hydro electrician who runs tours from Gillam up the Nelson River to York Factory, Hudson Bay. He uses a 21’ jet boat for the 290km/180 mile return journey. Mr. Sawchuk was also interviewed in a CBC National video last week.

Mr. Sawchuk’s web site/FAQ page: Nelson River Adventures | FAQ

Client web page on the trip, with photos: My Wilderness Adventure to York Factory, Manitoba | BCRobyn

Mr. Sawchuk’s comments in the NY Times story:

“A railway from Winnipeg to Churchill passes through Gillam, but walking along it would leave the fugitives exposed. A second, long-abandoned rail line also leaves town, but Mr. Sawchuk said nature had overtaken it, making travel along it as difficult as plowing through swampy bush.

“The lowlands have large areas of peat floating on water that can give way easily, and walkers could fall through. Ponds and streams frustrate anyone trying to cross on foot.

“The black spruce trees that dominate may not be large, but they have unusually dense needles, making them ideal for hiding but disorienting for anyone crossing through the bush.

“And then there are the insects. Mr. Sawchuk said they are “on full force — they’re out there like crazy.”

“Mr. Sawchuk fears the end may be ambiguous. The men could die in the bush, with the bog swallowing their remains.

“But how would anyone know for sure?

““Who knows,” he said. “Why the hell did they come here?””

NY Times Full Story: Manhunt for Murder Suspects in Remote Canada Yields Only Fear and Frustration
 
Last edited by a moderator:
10ofRods said:
If the perps were inside the van, though, it's *possible* some DNA would be found . If the perps dragged bodies out of the van before burning (as it appears they did),
Click to expand...

The blue van of Lucas/Chynna was not burned, so DNA could have been collected from van and bodies.

Prof. Dyck's body was left on a very visible highway lookout, perhaps intentionally, so DNA could have been collected there too.

But the main link was probably ballistics match.
 
SteveP said:
And I frankly do not see how determining the identities of the victims aided in the search for the perps at all, as it seems it was an entirely random encounter. JMO
Click to expand...
Well, prior to identification, there were just reports of two bodies and that the Major Crimes unit was investigating. This (identification) put a face to them and generated international attention. The story wasn't the big news it is until people could connect emotionally with it. People see this young couple and talk about all their potential and love of life and so on. It kept a media focus on the case by humanizing the victims.

Whether or not this would have aided in capturing is just speculation, but it might.
 
JaneEyre said:
Wait, the van was not burned, was it? They burned the Rav and their own truck.
Click to expand...
Yes. Blue van was intact except for damage to rear window which was broken. We have not seen pictures of inside the van to know what if anything was done to it. Other vehicles involved that we are aware of: camper truck and RAV4 were burned.
 
otto said:
When in Rome, do as the Romans. When in Canada, overnight in a campground.
Click to expand...
I know lots of people that have traveled across Canada and never used a campground...myself being one of them. There are many people that work in and around Banff and Jasper that are litterally sleeping in vehicles all summer long due to the lack of affordable housing. If Canadians are not supposed to sleep in vehicles why are Canadian highways littered with pull off spots and sinage that encourages drivers that are tired to pull off the road and rest. Canada is huge and one can be hours away from a designated "campground"....is it better to drive tired or is it better to pull over and sleep?? JMO
 
If I understand, and I may not, even if the couple had been driving a brand new car with bumper to bumper coverage on it the danger would have been the same? I guess there are no car dealerships there either to just come and get it?
 
10ofRods said:
So, if no fire in the van (which is what I originally thought), what, exactly links the van crime to the fire in the truck/camper and the RAV4? In terms of physical evidence, I mean. Only the ballistics, at this point, I'd think. Too soon for complex DNA analysis of the bodies (if that even turns out to be fruitful).

The burn-the-car MO establishes links between the perps and the botanist. But since we don't know that the botanist was shot, we get to sit and guess some more about why and how they linked these crimes.

But there might be DNA evidence in the van, therefore - and that could be matched to objects from the suspects' homes. Pretty quickly, I'd think.
Click to expand...

It's possible that dash cam footage or eye witness account places the truck/camper at or near the location of the van. Or similar wounds were found on the 3 victims. Nothing has been released yet.
 
The first victims Van was not burned. The vehicle that was burned was the original vehicle that Kam and Bryer left home in. Mr. Dyck has never been identified as having a vehicle. Obviously they burned theirs and took his.
 
SteveP said:
Honestly, I am not playing dumb, nor am I trying to be contrary, but how did the delay in identifying the victims give the teens a huge head start? If there had been a proper registration of the vehicle, without ID on the victims, there still was no guarantee that the victims were the owners of the van. The van could have been stolen, for all LE could have known. Also, while surely someone behind a desk was having to run a check on the van registration and try to determine identities of vics, it isn't like the rest of the investigators were sitting around thinking, "damn, sure wish we could start dusting for prints and gathering evidence and trying to find who did this, but I guess we can't until we know who these dead people are." Regardless of whether or not they had ID'd the victims, they knew they had been murdered by someone, and began investigating. And I frankly do not see how determining the identities of the victims aided in the search for the perps at all, as it seems it was an entirely random encounter. JMO
Click to expand...

Well, this is MOO, but it is a publicity thing. The journalism part. Once the identities were known (and I could say quite a bit about why that is), this became international headline news, popped up in sidebars on websites everywhere, and some people (like the botanist) might well have seen it. We'll never know. Until the identities were known, a lot of people did not hear about this case. Given that three different nations and their twitter feeds got involved immediately thereafter, obviously, it could be that other peoples' lives were saved. The killers may have been forced, by the heat of public attention, to change their MO. That's pretty typical and that seems to be exactly what happened, does it not? Have any further burned out cars been found? No more sightings in stores, either, as the story heated up. We here on WS saw their faces fairly early on, but the rest of the world didn't - it wouldn't have run for so many cycles if this were an elderly grandfather shot dead on his ranch in the Sierra Nevada.
 
Murphy1950 said:
So what would be the problem with confirming? It adds clarity.
Click to expand...
RCMP supply details strictly on a 'need to know' basis. Right now, all the public needs to know is: what the teens look like, that they're no long driving the RAV, that police suspect them of killing LD, and that they may be armed.

Here's what I imagine an RCMP officer would respond: 'Loose lips sink ships. We're running a highly professional police organization, not a talk show to entertain the masses. Details such as how the teens acquired the RAV will be presented only at a criminal trial, after the police and prosecutors have gone over the evidence with a fine tooth comb, checking that every t is crossed and i dotted, to ensure the prosecution wins the case and no one gets away with murder on a technicality. Criminals are convicted in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.'.

I deliberately tried to get every cliche I could think of in that paragraph, btw.
 
The RAV4 was left so close to the rail line and even a day spent walking the rail line could maybe get you 10-15 miles out of the area

EAluBMDWkAEoqlS.jpg
 
SteveP said:
Honestly, I am not playing dumb, nor am I trying to be contrary, but how did the delay in identifying the victims give the teens a huge head start? If there had been a proper registration of the vehicle, without ID on the victims, there still was no guarantee that the victims were the owners of the van. The van could have been stolen, for all LE could have known. Also, while surely someone behind a desk was having to run a check on the van registration and try to determine identities of vics, it isn't like the rest of the investigators were sitting around thinking, "damn, sure wish we could start dusting for prints and gathering evidence and trying to find who did this, but I guess we can't until we know who these dead people are." Regardless of whether or not they had ID'd the victims, they knew they had been murdered by someone, and began investigating. And I frankly do not see how determining the identities of the victims aided in the search for the perps at all, as it seems it was an entirely random encounter. JMO
Click to expand...

Hear, hear!!

Same can be said for victim Len Dyck whose body was found on highway turnout.

Len too could have been resting in an authorized or unauthorized highway area, in a properly registered and insured vehicle, and it took a sketch and several days before he was properly identified. (His vehicle assumed stolen/burned by the teens).

The investigation was not placed on hold.

MOO
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 120 more.
Total: 3,447 (members: 121, guests: 3,326)

Online statistics

Members online
121
Guests online
3,326
Total visitors
3,447
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,984
Messages
17,978,944
Members
228,966
Latest member
Tici
Back
Top