Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

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I just assumed either it was taken from one of their family members, or they stole it from their victims.

I think they had a gun before they hit the road.

It would have been important to whatever they planned to do (murder and/or robbery).

Someone close to them is probably missing a gun, and I imagine that law enforcement knows exactly where it came from.
 
No, you misunderstood. They could have gone to Vancouver and committed their initial crimes. They chose to go way up north. Their proclivities are pretty clear, I think, and they don't involve big cities.
They were up north looking for work. I think they found themselves in this situation via circumstance, like a simple robbery gone bad. Regardless, if they are going to live life on the run, they won't be able to do it in the bush. And how better to blend in in Toronto than with a new suit.
 
Be cautious everyone.... that is not a LE page, on the "about" on that FB page...

This stream's contents and internet broadcast are in no way associated with the agencies being streamed. By listening to the information heard on the scanner you are agreeing to use it for entertainment purposes only.
 
Well I sort of think you might be confusing my statements with logical fallacies I have not made. I'm always pretty careful with my language because as an attorney I realize there are rarely absolutes and a comma makes a difference. You know what I mean?

So if I say, "Hmm. The creature has fangs and fur. Thus it's a sign that it couldbe a dog.", you sort of appear to be reading that statement as me saying "All dogs have fangs and fur therefore any creature with fangs and fur must be a dog."

However that's not what I said. Not close.

I don't know, I kind of see this pattern routinely in cases where people will address each issue or item of circumstantial evidence and pick it apart to show how, "well look, I can explain why this one particular item proves nothing and if I can do that for most of them, there's no case," instead of understanding that these things cannot be viewed in vacuum. It is the whole picture, not an individual puzzle piece that matters. Does a cumulation of things paint a picture that makes some conclusion more likely than not?

That's what I look at.

I didn't mention mental illness on the part of any of their parents. I mentioned paranoia, thoughts of revenge and a criminal record, as well as general family dysfunction. But never did I state those are a "proven marker of who a child will grow up to be or what there capable of". That's a super definitive and nonsensical statement that I didn't make and never would. However, parental criminality and family dysfunction when combined with other things, may be a sign that a couple of fresh faced boys aren't so sweet and healthy and may indeed have issues that render them capable of destruction and evil.

No. Long hours playing wildnerness games is indeed not more commonly known as camping. There is zero to suggest these two were avid campers engaged in fun outdoor activities with a group of like minded friends. Bryer's dad was pretty specific: "They considered themselves survivalists. 'They liked to go into the woods and play war.'"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-killings-is-on-a-suicide-mission-father/amp/

That's not how I've ever camped. I think it's cute to think they were just wholesome boys out in the fresh air having fun but that's really not what Bryer's dad described.

Looking at my statement again, about video games, I specifically stated: "hours and hours watching YouTube and playing video games, both of which can appeal to anti-social types and make them less able to learn to cope with the real world."

Sure, there can be and are social aspects to many video games. Many are interactive and involve teams and lots of dialogue and back and forth. But respectfully, so?

Looking back at what Bryer's dad said about them: "He described his son’s upbringing as being troubled, with his parents’ going through a bitter separation in 2005. The teen allegedly turned to video games and YouTube as his main influences, his father said."

From the link above.

I don't think that's healthy.

Video games didn't cause this. Nor violent movies. I think I've been clear on that. I find that laughable.

However, it is undeniable that introverts and people who isolate themselves and lack social skills may be drawn to spending hours online playing games or watching YouTube.

But again, I'm looking at signs that together, not apart, may show that these two displayed evidence that not all was okay. That they had serious issues.

All of the above coupled with statements about wanting to kill or harm people as some schoolmates have discussed, AND an interest in violent and hateful ideology, indicate to me that yes, they seem to match the profile of many young spree killers or mass murderers.

I'm not persuaded by their fresh faces and sweet smiles. There were some indications that there was something going on with these two.

Looks like the jury is still out on whether there is a relationship between violent games and antisocial behavior:

"Research on gaming effects has focused on adolescence, a developmental period in which peer relationships become increasingly salient. However, the impact of peers on the effects of violent gaming on adolescents has been understudied. This study examined whether adolescents’ exposure to violent video games predicted their own and their friend's aggression one year later. Among 705 gaming adolescents, 141 dyads were identified based on reciprocated best friend nominations (73.8% male, Mage = 13.98). Actor‐Partner Interdependence Models indicated that adolescent males’ (but not females’) exposure to violent games positively predicted the aggression of their best friend 1 year later. This effect appeared regardless of whether the friends played video games together or not. The study illustrates the importance of peers in the association between violent gaming and aggression."​

Verheijen, G. P., Burk, W. J., Stoltz, S. E., van den Berg, Y. H., & Cillessen, A. H. (2018). Friendly fire: Longitudinal effects of exposure to violent video games on aggressive behavior in adolescent friendship dyads. Aggressive behavior, 44(3), 257-267.
https://doi.org/10.1002/ab.21748

"The relationship between violent digital games and youth behavior remains contested in the scholarly literature. To date considerable scholarship has focused on university students, with fewer studies of adolescents or children. The current study examines correlational relationships between violent game exposure and bullying behaviors, antisocial attitudes, civic attitudes, and civic behaviors in a sample of 304 children from the United Kingdom (Mean age = 12.81). The paper also considered motivational influences on use of violent digital games. Results indicated that violent game exposure did not correlate meaningfully with either antisocial or civic behaviors or attitudes. These results are discussed in a motivational and developmental context. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2018 APA, all rights reserved)"​

Ferguson, C. J., & Colwell, J. (2018). A meaner, more callous digital world for youth? The relationship between violent digital games, motivation, bullying, and civic behavior among children. Psychology of Popular Media Culture, 7(3), 202-215.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/ppm0000128
 
I wondered about the gun bit. It's possible they bought a gun off the street from someone.

Gun is not substantiated -- probably fb rumor. Sightings, yes.

Coulombe said the OPP is aware of the possible sighting, and while nothing has been confirmed, officers have been deployed to investigate. There has been no report made by anyone about a gun being pulled, either, she said.

The OPP received another report of a possible sighting on Tuesday near Iron Bridge, east of Sault Ste. Marie.

That being said, the OPP is encouraging the public to keep calling with possible sightings of the suspects. The OPP is in contact with the RCMP, and if a sighting is confirmed, then a call will be made to inform them, Coulombe said.

If you think you have spotted the suspects, don't approach them, Coulombe said. Call police, and try to provide as much detailed information as possible.

OPP investigating unconfirmed sightings of B.C. murder suspects in Northern Ontario - Sudbury.com
 
Retracing their steps....

Alexis Daish‏Verified account @LexiDaish
PICS: Police tell us today they’re working on the ground retracing steps from where Mcleod and Schmegelsky torched their car here outside of Gillam. There’s a scorched set of keys left behind.@9NewsAUS @TheTodayShow

EA0V7GbXUAANQbR.jpg


EA0V7HUWsAAlKM_.jpg

9:37 AM - 31 Jul 2019
Interesting... The key ring fob is a little “Leatherman”-style multi-tool. You would think they would have kept that. It’s small, it’s light, and there are millions of identical ones out there. So it’s not really incriminating to be found with it.

I’d definitely have held on to it if I were heading out on foot. This, plus the supposed “pile of matches” suggests to me that they probably left in a vehicle.

Apologies if this has already been noted/discussed. I’m about three pages behind.

The above is 100% MOO.
 
Well I sort of think you might be confusing my statements with logical fallacies I have not made. I'm always pretty careful with my language because as an attorney I realize there are rarely absolutes and a comma makes a difference. You know what I mean?

So if I say, "Hmm. The creature has fangs and fur. Thus it's a sign that it couldbe a dog.", you sort of appear to be reading that statement as me saying "All dogs have fangs and fur therefore any creature with fangs and fur must be a dog."

However that's not what I said. Not close.

I don't know, I kind of see this pattern routinely in cases where people will address each issue or item of circumstantial evidence and pick it apart to show how, "well look, I can explain why this one particular item proves nothing and if I can do that for most of them, there's no case," instead of understanding that these things cannot be viewed in vacuum. It is the whole picture, not an individual puzzle piece that matters. Does a cumulation of things paint a picture that makes some conclusion more likely than not?

That's what I look at.

I didn't mention mental illness on the part of any of their parents. I mentioned paranoia, thoughts of revenge and a criminal record, as well as general family dysfunction. But never did I state those are a "proven marker of who a child will grow up to be or what there capable of". That's a super definitive and nonsensical statement that I didn't make and never would. However, parental criminality and family dysfunction when combined with other things, may be a sign that a couple of fresh faced boys aren't so sweet and healthy and may indeed have issues that render them capable of destruction and evil.

No. Long hours playing wildnerness games is indeed not more commonly known as camping. There is zero to suggest these two were avid campers engaged in fun outdoor activities with a group of like minded friends. Bryer's dad was pretty specific: "They considered themselves survivalists. 'They liked to go into the woods and play war.'"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-killings-is-on-a-suicide-mission-father/amp/

That's not how I've ever camped. I think it's cute to think they were just wholesome boys out in the fresh air having fun but that's really not what Bryer's dad described.

Looking at my statement again, about video games, I specifically stated: "hours and hours watching YouTube and playing video games, both of which can appeal to anti-social types and make them less able to learn to cope with the real world."

Sure, there can be and are social aspects to many video games. Many are interactive and involve teams and lots of dialogue and back and forth. But respectfully, so?

Looking back at what Bryer's dad said about them: "He described his son’s upbringing as being troubled, with his parents’ going through a bitter separation in 2005. The teen allegedly turned to video games and YouTube as his main influences, his father said."

From the link above.

I don't think that's healthy.

Video games didn't cause this. Nor violent movies. I think I've been clear on that. I find that laughable.

However, it is undeniable that introverts and people who isolate themselves and lack social skills may be drawn to spending hours online playing games or watching YouTube.

But again, I'm looking at signs that together, not apart, may show that these two displayed evidence that not all was okay. That they had serious issues.

All of the above coupled with statements about wanting to kill or harm people as some schoolmates have discussed, AND an interest in violent and hateful ideology, indicate to me that yes, they seem to match the profile of many young spree killers or mass murderers.

I'm not persuaded by their fresh faces and sweet smiles. There were some indications that there was something going on with these two.

I do agree with many of the points you’ve made. There’s no doubt that issues were present in their lives, however the depth of those issues simply can’t be assessed based on such little information. I guess the issue I have is many of the comments have been made by people after they were approached by the media. We don’t know if they’ve been twisted, presented differently than they were said or quoted out of context. For example the video of Bryers father breaking down and saying his son was hurting and wanted his pain to end - that seems to have been translated by media into “wants to go [sic] blaze of glory”.
The only time that there will possibly be verification of anything, including statements said to reporters, is if it goes to trial, which I doubt the public will be privy to anything. Haven’t they already applied in advance for a publication ban??
 
Interestingly, if you put in for directions from Gillam to the Sudbury, ON area on Google maps, one of the possible options is Via Rail. Via Rail had been discussed quite a few times in earlier threads.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

We do not like being heavy handed but the last thread became so rife with rumor that we are having to take this action.

There is now a ZERO tolerance in place in this case for rumor posts. Members introducing rumors will be subject to a minimum 7 day thread reply ban.


MSM and LE social media accounts (comments by the reporter or LE official) are allowed. Comments or images by the general public are not allowed.

If you aren't sure if a source is allowed, contact a Mod or Admin to ask rather than posting it.

From Page #1, just a kindly reminder about reliable sources, to save the mods from wasting so much time cleaning up threads. :)
 
[...] For example the video of Bryers father breaking down and saying his son was hurting and wanted his pain to end - that seems to have been translated by media into “wants to go [sic] blaze of glory”.
[...]

The father actually said, “He wants his hurt to end. They're going to go out in a blaze of glory. Trust me on this. That's what they're going to do.” It's a direct quote.

source: Father of suspect in 3 B.C. deaths expects son will go out in 'blaze of glory'
 
Vancouver was too close to the crimes. They'd be too hot. The city would allow them to blend in, find shelter and most importantly give them access to free food. Nobody is going to survive a Canadian winter in the woods, no matter how good a survivalist they are.

That just made me think, if they really wanted to disappear in the woods, there is no better (or closer!) place than the Yukon. They could have zipped up here from Dease Lake in a few hours, taken one of the many side roads and would have had less of a trail and way more time ahead of police.

But yeah, either way, winter will be harsh on them if they're still alive in northern MB!
 
The father actually said, “He wants his hurt to end. They're going to go out in a blaze of glory. Trust me on this. That's what they're going to do.” It's a direct quote.

source: Father of suspect in 3 B.C. deaths expects son will go out in 'blaze of glory'

Yeah but from your link he also predicted this, published on July 24th.

“He's on a suicide mission. He wants his pain to end,” he said, breaking down into tears. “Basically, he's going to be dead today or tomorrow. I know that. Rest in peace, Bryer. I love you. I'm so sorry all this had to happen.”...”
 
Interesting... The key ring fob is a little “Leatherman”-style multi-tool. You would think they would have kept that. It’s small, it’s light, and there are millions of identical ones out there. So it’s not really incriminating to be found with it.

I’d definitely have held on to it if I were heading out on foot. This, plus the supposed “pile of matches” suggests to me that they probably left in a vehicle.

Apologies if this has already been noted/discussed. I’m about three pages behind.

The above is 100% MOO.
I see about 6 keys in the tangle. Would the "leatherman" tool you're referring to be the rectangle object? Thanks.
 
Well I kind of hope they've made their way to Ontario as I believe they'll be found much quicker.

Also.. if it is rumour at least it will get their pictures out there. From the comments I'm seeing on the Nippising OPP statement theres a lot of people that have no clue about this case!
 
I 'm just catching up with all that is going on with string of incidents. We got to our cottage Sunday evening near Midland Ontario Expecting to join up with relatives driving there from just outside of Thunder bay. I sent them a stern warning not to stop for hitchikers along the way.
They left at 5:30 am and arrived here at 7 ish pm.
TB to Midland in and around 14 hours is possible.

I've done Toronto to Atikokan in 16.5 hours by myself
only stopping for gas on Hwy 11 thru Kap and Hearst.

At 6:30 pm Just before our relatives arrived at "Tiny Beaches", OPP dispatch reported a sighting of the two suspects in this case at the beach two minutes from our house.

My wife and I had quite the startle! She did not walk the dog alone Sunday night.

There was a police presence at the beach but for another issue later in the evening..

scanner is a Uniden BCD436HP.

Napper505 :)
 
Looks like the jury is still out on whether there is a relationship between violent games and antisocial behavior:

"Research on gaming effects has focused on adolescence, a developmental period in which peer relationships become increasingly salient. However, the impact of peers on the effects of violent gaming on adolescents has been understudied. This study examined whether adolescents’ exposure to violent video games predicted their own and their friend's aggression one year later. Among 705 gaming adolescents, 141 dyads were identified based on reciprocated best friend nominations (73.8% male, Mage = 13.98). Actor‐Partner Interdependence Models indicated that adolescent males’ (but not females’) exposure to violent games positively predicted the aggression of their best friend 1 year later. This effect appeared regardless of whether the friends played video games together or not. The study illustrates the importance of peers in the association between violent gaming and aggression."​

Verheijen, G. P., Burk, W. J., Stoltz, S. E., van den Berg, Y. H., & Cillessen, A. H. (2018). Friendly fire: Longitudinal effects of exposure to violent video games on aggressive behavior in adolescent friendship dyads. Aggressive behavior, 44(3), 257-267.
https://doi.org/10.1002/ab.21748

"The relationship between violent digital games and youth behavior remains contested in the scholarly literature. To date considerable scholarship has focused on university students, with fewer studies of adolescents or children. The current study examines correlational relationships between violent game exposure and bullying behaviors, antisocial attitudes, civic attitudes, and civic behaviors in a sample of 304 children from the United Kingdom (Mean age = 12.81). The paper also considered motivational influences on use of violent digital games. Results indicated that violent game exposure did not correlate meaningfully with either antisocial or civic behaviors or attitudes. These results are discussed in a motivational and developmental context. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2018 APA, all rights reserved)"​

Ferguson, C. J., & Colwell, J. (2018). A meaner, more callous digital world for youth? The relationship between violent digital games, motivation, bullying, and civic behavior among children. Psychology of Popular Media Culture, 7(3), 202-215.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/ppm0000128

What is the official defined determination a video game is violent though? Rust - personally I wouldn’t call it particularly violent or realistic, especially compared to GTA5 where theft, headshots, stealing, grand theft larceny, consuming drugs, killing innocent people are all the game consists of.
 
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