Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

[Ksask]

Personally, I think if they were both dead they would have been found by the FLIR. Someone earlier had posted info. that IIRC even a deceased person could be found upto about a week later, because of insects.

* I don't believe they would have burned the RAV4, without having another vehicle.
* To assume they ran out of gas after putting in $20, would basically require them to be out of gas at the gas station.
* In rural areas, you gas up early, because gas stations can be great distances apart, so you don't run low.
* RAV4 was burned Monday night, they were not even suspects yet until sometime on Tues.
* It would have taken hours to get the logistics & roadlocks in place.
* Although nobody has reported a stolen vehicle, well there could be a reasons why not...

Maybe a car hasn’t been reported stolen because it hasn’t been missed yet. Lots of people on summer holidays and a family leaves one car at home while gone. I think they committed suicide.

 

[Seattle1]

Alexis Daish‏Verified account @LexiDaish
CANADIAN MANHUNT: There are a lot of things about the Bear Clan Patrol’s ‘sighting’ of the fugitives that don’t add up... and it may have wasted hours of critical police time. The tip-off that’s led to a dead end explained.@9NewsAUS @TheTodayShow

2:41 PM - 1 Aug 2019 PST from Gillam, Manitoba

 

[afitzy]

I have been reading about RCMP press tactics used in some other cases over the years to flush out suspects.

I think we saw one such RCMP press tactic early on in this case when the 2 suspects were declared missing and not identified as suspects immediately.

The RCMP statement about partial retreat yesterday from Gillam along with altering their resource allocation in the region seemed like a definitive statement, but do any of the Canadians on here think that this is just a tactic being used by RCMP to get the 2 suspects to feel more relaxed and then hope they make a mistake?

Curious what the locals think about RCMP plans here. It just seems unrealistic to put an entire Province or country even on high alert looking for these 2 suspects IMO.

 

[sprucetip]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Wasn't the surveillance video footage at some kind of camping supply store or "general store" in a remote town? In that case it could have been mistaken for a hunting outfit (and I assume that's probably what the manufacturers of the outfit originally intended it for) and would be in any rural area in Canada or the US.

I think the reason why some people believe he was the leader is because: a) Bryer doesn't have a driver's license and Kam does, and Kam was doing all the driving according to the confirmed sightings, b) in the surveillance footage, Kam was walking in front and seemed more confident looking straight ahead, while Bryer was more nervous and fidgety.

I think the possibilities at this point are:

a) Still alive and in the northern Manitoba wilderness, with very few resources, living a survivalist existence. Which would be an amazing feat for two fairly sheltered teenagers to pull off (both evading detection and surviving this long) given what the police have said about how unforgiving the environment is -- and in which case, what is their long-term plan, especially when winter comes?

b) Escaped to another region of Canada without any help. Would be nearly impossible to do considering the police have been monitoring the roads, railways, etc. out since right after the RAV4 was found -- again would be very surprising if they did this.

c) Escaped somewhere else with help. In that case, who is helping them and why, how did the police not find any evidence of help (or did they and they're not releasing it?), etc. -- this doesn't really fit into Occam's razor of the general spree killer profile.

d) Died in the wilderness due to exposure, drowning, or any number of other causes (there were heavy freezing rains the day after they burned the RAV4 and the police said it would have been very difficult for them to endure). Possible and if so, high chance they will never be recovered.

e) Planned to commit suicide in the remote wilderness so they would never be found and nobody would know what happened to them, the most "cinematic" and attention-getting ending of all possible options as I mentioned, and therefore appealing to teen killers. Possible and if so, high chance they will never be recovered.[/QUOTE]

Last one makes the most sense to me. The sense of mystery around them would probably be something they would strive for after they're gone, hoping people are worried they might pop up anywhere, etc. Like the panic that is happening now with all the fake sightings. Probably exactly what they wanted.

 

[MistyWaters]

From yesterday’s PC, death is also one of the possibilities the RCMP say they are considering. If so, no answers, no justice, no certainty of death if bodies can’t be found.

Last week, police said someone in the Gillam area may have “inadvertently” helped Bryer Schmegelsky, 18, and Kam McLeod, 19, who are wanted in connection with three murders in British Columbia, leave the area after a stolen SUV they drove across Canada was found burned-out near the town.

That’s still a possibility, but investigators say it’s also possible that the two suspects are now dead.

“The north part of the province is a very unforgiving place … very challenging terrain, lots of wildlife. We’re keeping all possibilities in mind as we go forward with this, but that (the suspects are dead) is just one of the possibilities we’re considering,” MacLatchy said...”
RCMP scale back search for B.C. murder suspects in Manitoba

 

[Jessthinkin]

Thanks for that. It includes a video interview of a pretty insightful classmate who states exactly what he said, why they didn't think much of it at the time (I mean they were 13), and why in retrospect it's significant.

Let me just say that if this is considered normal and just how kids talk nowadays? I have zero hope for our world.

This is the age group I teach (middle school) and in my experience, talk of beheading fellow students and shooting yourself in the mouth is highly unusual and disturbing. More typical, unwanted, middle school age-associated ‘banter’ has to do with sexual topics, ie, boys saying things to girls about pencil sharpeners and pencils (I’ll leave it at that!), etc...

 

[gitana1]

It detects heat in general, and significant insect activity on a deceased person can make them detectable for a few weeks. However, FLIR effectiveness can also be impacted by dense forest overhead. I previously posted a video of a guy bolting after his car was disabled via spike belt, and he's highly visible until he gets in the dense woods:

Yeah I think the assumption that if out there it should be easy to find them evidences a real misunderstanding of how truly vast and dense that territory is.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Isn't this gun chopping head thing from an unnamed person who alleges one of the suspects made these remarks 6-7 years ago? I think we can take it with a grain of salt. If there was any substance to it, the witness would be named and it should have been addressed at the time the remarks were made - not years later when the person who allegedly made the comment is a murder suspect.

The witness isn’t anonymous, it’s a female, former classmate of BS. There’s a videotaped interview with her giving details about these interactions. (Maybe it’s in the media thread...)

 

[gitana1]

Isn't this gun chopping head thing from an unnamed person who alleges one of the suspects made these remarks 6-7 years ago? I think we can take it with a grain of salt. If there was any substance to it, the witness would be named and it should have been addressed at the time the remarks were made - not years later when the person who allegedly made the comment is a murder suspect.

She has been named and gave a long interview on video to the media. She seemed very credible to me and shocked by what's happened.

ETA: Here's the video: Former classmates of northern B.C. murder suspect say he would describe killing himself, others

 

[MistyWaters]

LOL. But usually they manage to carry all their enforcement gear around in navy blue uniforms that comes in various all-weather configurations. Their dress makes them very identifiable as police who are respected citizens of their communities and that identification is, in itself, meant to have a sobering effect in any confrontation with bad guys.

Are we to understand that the RCMP invested in whole new wardrobes for their members before sending them after these fugitives? I've just never seen Canadian police looking like members of the military before all decked out to conduct an ambush in some foreign war. As a taxpayer, I find it somewhat troubling. MOO.

When tracking dangerous fugitives in bush country who may be armed and are considered dangerous I think it’s highly unlikely they’d put their lives at risk by potentially becoming target practise through wearing standard street coloured uniforms.

As a taxpayer, protecting the well-being of our police officers is far more important to me than the cost of tactical attire. JMO

It’s also no longer true the colour of their attire is intended to be identifiable.
National Home Page | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

 

[JuneBug67]

Agree. And if my opinion is right and they died out there, then the folk legend will continue. Forever. They could never be found.

Yes. The danger that they'll be mythologized and copy catted will be high.

 

[Only4Justice]

Unfortunately it seems like that's the most likely explanation. They're a couple of sheltered teenagers, and I find it next to impossible to believe that they outsmarted the RCMP and all the resources of both the police and local community, in one of the worst environments on the continent to try to "rough it." I also doubt they had outside help because that just doesn't seem realistic from all the stories of spree killers we know about -- it sounds like something out of a movie. We also know at least one of them made frequent comments about committing murder-suicide in the past. It could have just been talk, but it seems like it could have some relevance. When they first went into the wilderness and when the purported York Landing sighting was reported, I thought there was a good chance they'd be captured, found dead, or die in a police shootout within a few days. The RCMP has said they are leaving the area and I think it's with good reason. I think the RCMP thinks they're dead and maybe even found conversations between them online or something where they discussed it.

I agree.

 

[they'll get you]

Family, friends to farewell Lucas Fowler at Turramurra Uniting Church today August 2

Port Macquarie's Val Fowler is expected to attend a memorial service for her grandson Lucas at the Turramurra Uniting Church on Friday, August 2

Friday's memorial service is at the Turramurra Uniting Church and commences at 11am.

Family and friends of Ms Deese attended a memorial service on Saturday July 27.

Port Macquarie family of slain Lucas Fowler to attend Sydney funeral service

 

[otto]

I have been reading about RCMP press tactics used in some other cases over the years to flush out suspects.

I think we saw one such RCMP press tactic early on in this case when the 2 suspects were declared missing and not identified as suspects immediately.

The RCMP statement about partial retreat yesterday from Gillam along with altering their resource allocation in the region seemed like a definitive statement, but do any of the Canadians on here think that this is just a tactic being used by RCMP to get the 2 suspects to feel more relaxed and then hope they make a mistake?

Curious what the locals think about RCMP plans here. It just seems unrealistic to put an entire Province or country even on high alert looking for these 2 suspects IMO.

RCMP did not withhold the names of the suspects and falsely announce that they were missing as a ruse. They were missing, their truck was found burning and RCMP had no idea whether there was a connection between the three murders and whether the suspects were victims on July 19.

July 21 their status was changed from missing to suspects. On July 22, the Rav4 was found burning in Manitoba, and on July 23/24 the unidentified man at Dease Lake was identified.

RCMP and military have withdrawn from York Landing and Gillam, other than leaving 20 officers in place. I don't think it's a tactic. I think it's a fact that the suspects are not in Gillam or York Landing. Because the residents of those small towns are fearful, officers are in place to help them feel safe.

 

[SiciC]

Isn't there an assumption here, though? The vehicle definitely arrived in Gillam because it was found torched there. But there has never been any (reported) sign of the fugitives at that location, despite the allocation of significant LE and military resources. I continue to consider the possibility that not only was the car stolen once, by the boys but it was stolen twice, the second time by somebody else. 2018 LE stats 3,100 vehicles stolen in Manitoba. Entirely possible, IMO, that neither of the fugitives were ever in Gillam. Presumably LE has evidence that proves otherwise, though.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/car-theft-keys-left-in-vehicles-1.4988218

While anything is possible, I find that highly improbable imo. What are the chances that someone else stole that vehicle and then coincidentally burned it just as the suspects did with their first vehicle. That and the suspects were spotted in Split Lake, just two hours from Gillam..
jmo

 

[gitana1]

The witness isn’t anonymous, it’s a female, former classmate of BS. There’s a videotaped interview with her giving details about these interactions. (Maybe it’s in the media thread...)

You just linked it a little bit ago:

Former classmates of northern B.C. murder suspect say he would describe killing himself, others

 

[thebedbug]

Yes. The danger that they'll be mythologized and copy catted will be high.

The problem there is that they didn't do anything particularly interesting...

They killed an old man and took his car and maybe robbed him... then killed a couple whose car had broken down and stole $50 or something... and vanished. In this era of social media and crimes with a much greater public impact, they'll be forgotten in a few months.

 

[NJSleuth91]

This is a great video, thank you for sharing! If BS and KM were bunkered down in hiding, there is no way they could be detected using FLIR in the dense shrubbery they are suspected as being in.

You would think that in 2019, we would have technology readily available for LE in situations such as this. It's crazy!

My husband actually used to work on this kind of technology. It's much harder than you think.

Last one makes the most sense to me. The sense of mystery around them would probably be something they would strive for after they're gone, hoping people are worried they might pop up anywhere, etc. Like the panic that is happening now with all the fake sightings. Probably exactly what they wanted.

That's exactly why I think it's what happened. Most of these spree killers are looking for infamy. You know troubled, loner teenagers from a down-and-out town especially would have reason to try to reach "legend" status, and considering they were "raised by the internet," on the internet (especially the 4chan kind of communities they were probably part of) a lot of times fame and infamy are the same thing. If they had committed the murders, torched the victims' van and escaped, they would have easily gotten away with it but nobody would know who they were. They clearly wanted people to know they were the killers. If they had killed themselves in an area where they would be found, or been killed by police, nobody would care about this news story after a few days. Life as a fugitive sucks and they could be captured at any time, thus shattering the illusion of them as mastermind criminals. By killing themselves where they could never be found, it gives a ton of attention to them, and always leaves the question open of "what if they really did escape?" Plus they obviously didn't value their own lives (or other peoples' for that matter) very much anyway since they threw them away that easily.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The problem there is that they didn't do anything particularly interesting...

They killed an old man and took his car and maybe robbed him... then killed a couple whose car had broken down and stole $50 or something... and vanished. In this era of social media and crimes with a much greater public impact, they'll be forgotten in a few months.

And yet there's about 600 pages of posts on this website alone talking about it, and it's all over the news over two weeks later. I would argue it's not even the crimes that are capturing peoples' attention. It's the mystery of the search, the total remoteness of the area they went to, not knowing if they're alive or dead, and so on. Even Bryer's dad's crazy interviews are a part of it, although I don't think that was intentional on his part (his interview was how my interest in this case was captured, because it was so unusual). Or who knows, maybe it was part of the plan and maybe Bryer predicted his dad would act that way, especially with that "book" he wrote just days before the murders.

 

[Tee404]

My husband actually used to work on this kind of technology. It's much harder than you think.

I work in science and tech, so I understand how hard it is. What I am saying is, of all of the advancements we have been able to create in this space (and also the advancements that are currently out there but not yet accessible) it's just crazy that LE doesn't have such additional resources dedicated to them/for them.