Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #54 *ARREST*

[Seattle1]

What I find even worse is she's licensed to practice in at least 15 other states.

Where did I get this fine information? From the following link. I searched under K (first name) and L (last name). Once her information comes up, there is a link you can click to see all of the states she is licensed in.

Nursys®

Even with a felony conviction though?

It appears that KK's saving grace relative to her license status of "unencumbered" is thanks to the State of Idaho Board of Nursing, which is granted statutory authority.

More specifically, unlike some state boards of nursing, the Idaho Board has not identified ‘absolute bars’ to licensure or certification.

I believe there may be one caveat here that will overrule Idaho's liberal guidelines. -- Federal law may prevent her from working even with her "unencumbered" license if that hospital/institution, etc. is receiving public monies.

Here's what the state has to say:

Idaho Board of Nursing

The Idaho Board of Nursing is granted statutory authority to establish standards, criteria, conditions and requirements and to determine eligibility for nurse licensure and medication assistant certification.

Consistent with this authority, in protecting the public interest the Board may deny a licensure or certification application when the applicant’s criminal history warrants such action.

Criminal history is evaluated on a case-by-case basis with consideration given to the type and context of the crime(s) and the applicant’s demonstrated behavior following the commission of the crime(s).

Among other relevant factors, the Board considers the following items in reviewing the criminal history of applicants for licensure/certification:

o The applicant’s honesty in disclosing criminal history on an application for licensure/certification

o Type and severity of the crime(s) committed

o Time elapsed since the crime(s) or conviction of the crime(s)

o Time elapsed since completion of terms of sentence or other court-ordered sanctions

o Whether the applicant is subject to continued court oversight (e.g. probation, parole, or incarceration)

o Demonstrated remorse on the part of the applicant for commission of the crime(s)

o Relationship of the crime(s) to practice or to the behaviors expected of a health care provider

Unlike some state boards of nursing, the Idaho Board has not identified ‘absolute bars’ to licensure or certification. However, evidence of any significant threat to the health or safety of the public will likely result in Board denial of an application.

Such evidence may include, but is not limited to:

❖ Multiple or repeat criminal violations or patterns of similar/related offenses

❖ Criminal mistreatment of children or vulnerable adults

❖ Murder, felonious assault, kidnapping, rape or other crimes of violence against persons

❖ Demonstrated lack of rehabilitation or rehabilitation potential

Applicants for nurse licensure or MA-C certification should be aware that federal laws barring individuals convicted of certain offenses from employment in the healthcare field, especially in institutions that receive public monies (e.g. Medicaid or Medicare), may preclude employment as a nurse or MA-C even if a license/certificate is issued.

Further questions may be directed to the Board of Nursing at (208) 577-2476 or susan.odom@ibn.idaho.gov.

Board Additional

 

[gitana1]

There’s no way in hell he’s taking a plea deal, he’s way too narcissistic for that.

There is plenty of evidence as to time of death. It’s right in the arrest affidavit, and was discussed during the probable cause hearing.

This idea that there is no firm TOD is patently false.

In short:

He lies about when he last sees Kelsey.

He is caught on video returning to her house.

He leaves, and her cell phone leaves at the same time, despite the fact that he claims he had last contact with her hours before.

Her phone goes where his goes, and he maintains contact with her over the next couple days.

This, despite the fact that no one ever saw her alive after he walked through her door.

Kelsey was not alive, driving around with him, and spending time at his house.

Even he doesn’t claim that.

The best outcome is a first degree murder conviction, which I have no doubt is in the offing.

Patrick Frazee ain’t walking, because this arrogant monster decided to tell lie after lie, and engage in deception after deception.

Lies and deceptions that can be proven, with or without KK.

I’m not even the least bit concerned about him walking, because I have rarely seen a case this strong.

Body or not.

Agreed. It's a solid case.

 

[gitana1]

BBM. LOL. Many said the same thing about the Casey Anthony case. Please cite a case of a successful prosecution of premeditated 1st degree murder where there was no body, no TOD, no ME, no weapon, no motive and a cleaned "alleged" crime scene by a co-conspirator.

There is no evidence that places KB's cell phone in PF's hands. KK has admitted she disposed of the cell phone. She admitted to friends months in advance that PF wanted KB dead. She has admitted she twice approached KB's home in order to harm her. There is no way a jury can or will ignore these facts.

The ME usually testifies about TOD and there is no ME in this case because there is no body.

The arrest affidavit lists TOD as "on or about" because it is not known. PF will just say he was confused about when he last saw KB because it was an unremarkable event.

By all means, keep up the optimism toward a conviction but it remains only your opinion because this case has no ME as a witness and sadly lacks evidence that conclusively points to PF.

JMO

How many Casey Anthony cases have we had? One other? (OJ).

Of course that case terrifies all reasonable people as to the precariousness of the legal system but the reality is that it's an anomaly. And easily explained by the fact that the jury was sequestered in a highly punitive fashion that was so awful for them that they failed to find her guilty on any of the multiple lesser includeds and other charges available for a finding of guilt, except one because that one was the ONLY one that didn't necessitate a subsequent sentencing phase.

They just wanted to go home.

Happily, since then judges have wised up and have realized that the zeal to afford a perp every right know to man should've tempered by reason and juries aren't sequestered like that anymore.

For those who don't know the Anthony jurors were not allowed to go home ever during the weeks they were sequestered. They were only allowed to see their family once a week, supervised, on the weekend for a few hours.

They could not access the news, the internet or speak to their families.

They weren't allowed to use the hotel pool or visit the hotel bar unless part of a structured outing supervised by court employees.

They were allowed to go on group outings to various locations, but the outings had to be supervised. They had to stay together.

It was insane. In the zeal to protect Casey Anthony's rights they lost justice for Caylee.

Those jurors were treated more like alcoholic dads who were allowed only monitored visits with their kids, or like mentally ill inmates of a highly restrictive mental hospital, than like people doing their civic duty.

That's not happening again.

 

[MemPat]

How many Casey Anthony cases have we had? One other? (OJ).

Of course that case terrifies all reasonable people as to the precariousness of the legal system but the reality is that it's an anomaly. And easily explained by the fact that the jury was sequestered in a highly punitive fashion that was so awful for them that they failed to find her guilty on any of the multiple lesser includeds and other charges available for a finding of guilt, except one because that one was the ONLY one that didn't necessitate a subsequent sentencing phase.

They just wanted to go home.

Happily, since then judges have wised up and have realized that the zeal to afford a perp every right know to man should've tempered by reason and juries aren't sequestered like that anymore.

For those who don't know the Anthony jurors were not allowed to go home ever during the weeks they were sequestered. They were only allowed to see their family once a week, supervised, on the weekend for a few hours.

They could not access the news, the internet or speak to their families.

They weren't allowed to use the hotel pool or visit the hotel bar unless part of a structured outing supervised by court employees.

They were allowed to go on group outings to various locations, but the outings had to be supervised. They had to stay together.

It was insane. In the zeal to protect Casey Anthony's rights they lost justice for Caylee.

Those jurors were treated more like alcoholic dads who were allowed only monitored visits with their kids, or like mentally ill inmates of a highly restrictive mental hospital, than like people doing their civic duty.

That's not happening again.

Thank you, gitana, for the best explanation I've read of the Casey Anthony fiasco and for some measure of reassurance that it won't become the norm.

I know you have a comparable sizing-up of OJ's trial and I'd love to read that here as well.

Again, thank you!

 

[MemPat]

Nope, nope. Not me. He doesn't deserve a pine box. He doesn't even deserve a black storage tote with silver handles. Now, a horse trough and some gasoline? I could probably get behind something like that. And, a landfill. MOO

A woodchipper out behind the hoosegow? And Sonic for everyone!

 

[Love Never Fails]

No surprise the DP was not decided on in such a case. Too bad, so they now cannot deal from that position down to life in prison not that I think PF will deal.

I still feel this will never go to trial in October, a mere few months away. I have almost never seen it unless there is a plea deal or a guilty plea--under a year for a murder trial, when it took months on end just for the consumptive testing to be decided? Hopefully I am wrong. There are generally all sorts of hearings and motions that occur before trial--are such scheduled?

Therefore I doubt this DA will be in office when this finally goes to trial.

I haven't checked here in weeks and after catching up on the few pages I am making one long post and popping off again because I see that nothing has changed (no new news, etc.) nor is any discussion going on.

There also is no evidence whatsoever that PF was at KB's home at the time of her murder--what was the time of her murder/death?? And no evidence of where KK was on Thanksgiving or any other day surrounding the not determined time of death, yet I saw it stated as fact that KB was in Idaho and PF was at KB's at the time of her murder?? I guess I missed that evidence. That is not to say they might not have same but to claim it as fact at this point without evidence is nothing but purporting theory/speculation as fact. The prosecution has never even stated themselves that she was in Idaho, they did mention her dad saw her on Thanksgiving, no mention of where that was.

I think he is guilty before someone says otherwise (which always occurs because unfortunately I have my own opinion and as I have said repeatedly ad nauseum that PF is guilty imo when I am accused of thinking otherwise) posted) but I also think she erased all of her further involvement or knowledge ideally with getting rid of every bit of evidence that showed it. That is quite obvious, to me and many at least. She lied to the FBI. She turned off google locations, ditched evidence, got PF's was it FB log in, ditched phones, etc., etc, so very much. I would believe a jailhouse snitch first because they are in a cell and cannot do such things.

I am sure here come the attacks but like it or not, this opinion is shared by many despite the fact such thoughts are shut down and it seems a narrative is being forced without any trial or such facts either. Yet that is okay because I remark on a rare occasion anymore and then never check back for a month--so very used to it and I have no agenda or need to be right.

The prosecution has the burden, not the defense. Yes, they may have found some things they can make fit with KK's story but they likely don't have the rest of it thanks to much missing evidence at the hands of KK herself which I am pretty sure would show her further knowledge or involvement--but jmo. I would not easily give her the benefit of the doubt as a juror and yet it would bother me to no end because I believe he is guilty as well.

Then there is the fact was it three entries and both LE and the CBI had no clue a brutal murder occurred in this condo?

There is absolutely no comparison here between the Watts case and this one.

As to the AK case, just much more proof, as in many cases, that you cannot burn a body easily and even when you dig parts up or move bodies or the remains of a firepit, things can still be found and it did not take long either in the AK case.

Hopefully they have far more than we know and I believe they could but that is in no way known at this point, this has not been tried.

There is no doubt the defense will have a field day with KK on the stand. Not in my mind anyhow.

I am pro-prosecution, always. That does not mean one cannot wonder about the holes or if they have things that fill all of those holes or give jurors a reason to think they can believe KK.

I have not been on this thread in a few weeks or month so I am covering a few topics in this post. It did not take me long to catch up on the few pages since the last time I checked so just tried to touch on the couple of topics.

And on that note, I am out of here I hope to see an October trial but I don't believe that will occur for one moment. I would be happy to be wrong.

Jmo. Lengthy post but I post rarely.

Chili,

I completely agree with you. Whether the case is solid or not, there are a lot of questions remaining and information that is out there and not reported by MSM that brings up questions. I am going to believe that LE did check everything out and that hopefully the Berreth family has justice for KB. It still breaks my heart she had to die to satisfy someone’s sick needs. Of course, we see this all the time on Websleuths.

If PF did kill KB, I am not convinced that KKLs story of a baseball bat is true. More likely he took her somewhere and shot her and buried her where she will never be found. I have questions about LE entering her condo three times as a missing person case and didn’t use luminal or something of that nature in the beginningto find blood and only looked when a Berreth family member found blood. And why wasn’t PFs DNA found? He had to have cleaned up in order to take baby K out of the condo. Instead, the police found unknown Male DNA in the bathroom. KB wasn’t reportedly seeing another man. It wasn’t her brothers DNA, nor his partner, nor her Dads DNA. For all we know it could have been the DNA of an accomplice. Or maybe it is the DNA of a plumber. Those are only a couple of questions I would like to see answered. I think the trial might cover everything, if not the DA then the Defense. In any case, I look for parts of KKLs story to be shredded, especially since she destroyed phones and cleaned her FB account. When you consider those things, naturally you wonder what some of the jurors might think.

I am sure that you, like me, don’t care who committed this murder. What matters is that the perp spends his life in a cell so he cannot hurt someone else.

Still, KKL had a lot to hide and she went to party with friends right after the biggest and best clean up of a crime scene ever? I was listening to a crime scene specialist on CNN talk about another case. He said there is always some type of DNA left at a crime. It is just finding it. That’s why the perps get caught.

As far as burning KBs body, I don’t believe you can do that in the short time PF had to do that. In other cases it is stated it cannot be done without finding evidence of that body. I can see where they may have burned other evidence and that is why they found black plastic balls. In any case, PF may well be guilty.

I am not ignoring the evidence they may have. I believe there is more to the story, which is why I am waiting for the trial.

 

[crhedBngr]

View attachment 196321

It appears that KK's saving grace relative to her license status of "unencumbered" is thanks to the State of Idaho Board of Nursing, which is granted statutory authority.

More specifically, unlike some state boards of nursing, the Idaho Board has not identified ‘absolute bars’ to licensure or certification.

I believe there may be one caveat here that will overrule Idaho's liberal guidelines. -- Federal law may prevent her from working even with her "unencumbered" license if that hospital/institution, etc. is receiving public monies.

Here's what the state has to say:

Idaho Board of Nursing

The Idaho Board of Nursing is granted statutory authority to establish standards, criteria, conditions and requirements and to determine eligibility for nurse licensure and medication assistant certification.

Consistent with this authority, in protecting the public interest the Board may deny a licensure or certification application when the applicant’s criminal history warrants such action.

Criminal history is evaluated on a case-by-case basis with consideration given to the type and context of the crime(s) and the applicant’s demonstrated behavior following the commission of the crime(s).

Among other relevant factors, the Board considers the following items in reviewing the criminal history of applicants for licensure/certification:

o The applicant’s honesty in disclosing criminal history on an application for licensure/certification

o Type and severity of the crime(s) committed

o Time elapsed since the crime(s) or conviction of the crime(s)

o Time elapsed since completion of terms of sentence or other court-ordered sanctions

o Whether the applicant is subject to continued court oversight (e.g. probation, parole, or incarceration)

o Demonstrated remorse on the part of the applicant for commission of the crime(s)

o Relationship of the crime(s) to practice or to the behaviors expected of a health care provider

Unlike some state boards of nursing, the Idaho Board has not identified ‘absolute bars’ to licensure or certification. However, evidence of any significant threat to the health or safety of the public will likely result in Board denial of an application.

Such evidence may include, but is not limited to:

❖ Multiple or repeat criminal violations or patterns of similar/related offenses

❖ Criminal mistreatment of children or vulnerable adults

❖ Murder, felonious assault, kidnapping, rape or other crimes of violence against persons

❖ Demonstrated lack of rehabilitation or rehabilitation potential

Applicants for nurse licensure or MA-C certification should be aware that federal laws barring individuals convicted of certain offenses from employment in the healthcare field, especially in institutions that receive public monies (e.g. Medicaid or Medicare), may preclude employment as a nurse or MA-C even if a license/certificate is issued.

Further questions may be directed to the Board of Nursing at (208) 577-2476 or susan.odom@ibn.idaho.gov.

Board Additional

@Seattle1 : Thanks for taking the time to look this info. up. I appreciate it.

ETA: Definition of "unencumbered nursing license" Discipline 101 What Is An Unencumbered License?

 

[MyBelle]

How many Casey Anthony cases have we had? One other? (OJ).

Of course that case terrifies all reasonable people as to the precariousness of the legal system but the reality is that it's an anomaly. And easily explained by the fact that the jury was sequestered in a highly punitive fashion that was so awful for them that they failed to find her guilty on any of the multiple lesser includeds and other charges available for a finding of guilt, except one because that one was the ONLY one that didn't necessitate a subsequent sentencing phase.

They just wanted to go home.

Happily, since then judges have wised up and have realized that the zeal to afford a perp every right know to man should've tempered by reason and juries aren't sequestered like that anymore.

For those who don't know the Anthony jurors were not allowed to go home ever during the weeks they were sequestered. They were only allowed to see their family once a week, supervised, on the weekend for a few hours.

They could not access the news, the internet or speak to their families.

They weren't allowed to use the hotel pool or visit the hotel bar unless part of a structured outing supervised by court employees.

They were allowed to go on group outings to various locations, but the outings had to be supervised. They had to stay together.

It was insane. In the zeal to protect Casey Anthony's rights they lost justice for Caylee.

Those jurors were treated more like alcoholic dads who were allowed only monitored visits with their kids, or like mentally ill inmates of a highly restrictive mental hospital, than like people doing their civic duty.

That's not happening again.

I don't blame the Casey Anthony verdict on sequestration. Jurors knew what it would entail beforehand. The Bill Cosby jury was sequestered and they reached a guilty verdict.

The CA jury foreman gave several interviews and he made it pretty clear their opinions and verdict were all based on evidence and witnesses presented at trial. He said there was no convincing evidence Casey intentionally killed Caylee. He and the other jurors also did not find George Anthony to be a credible witness.

That's my concern in this case. I fear the jury will not find KK credible.

JMO

VAN SUSTEREN: And he's not charged (INAUDIBLE) Casey, but what I find interesting is that some jurors thought that he might be responsible not just for an accident or cover-up but for a murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just -- it was just one of those things where we -- because he was there and there was a gray area there, he was in question for -- you know, for -- for us just being -- having -- having some character issues when he was on that stand. And he was there. He was there at the time, on that day that all the gray area is happening with us. And that puts him in that mix. It put him in the mix for us.

Exclusive - Casey Anthony Jury Foreman: 'Everything Was Speculation'

 

[MyBelle]

Chili,

I completely agree with you. Whether the case is solid or not, there are a lot of questions remaining and information that is out there and not reported by MSM that brings up questions. I am going to believe that LE did check everything out and that hopefully the Berreth family has justice for KB. It still breaks my heart she had to die to satisfy someone’s sick needs. Of course, we see this all the time on Websleuths.

If PF did kill KB, I am not convinced that KKLs story of a baseball bat is true. More likely he took her somewhere and shot her and buried her where she will never be found. I have questions about LE entering her condo three times as a missing person case and didn’t use luminal or something of that nature in the beginningto find blood and only looked when a Berreth family member found blood. And why wasn’t PFs DNA found? He had to have cleaned up in order to take baby K out of the condo. Instead, the police found unknown Male DNA in the bathroom. KB wasn’t reportedly seeing another man. It wasn’t her brothers DNA, nor his partner, nor her Dads DNA. For all we know it could have been the DNA of an accomplice. Or maybe it is the DNA of a plumber. Those are only a couple of questions I would like to see answered. I think the trial might cover everything, if not the DA then the Defense. In any case, I look for parts of KKLs story to be shredded, especially since she destroyed phones and cleaned her FB account. When you consider those things, naturally you wonder what some of the jurors might think.

I am sure that you, like me, don’t care who committed this murder. What matters is that the perp spends his life in a cell so he cannot hurt someone else.

Still, KKL had a lot to hide and she went to party with friends right after the biggest and best clean up of a crime scene ever? I was listening to a crime scene specialist on CNN talk about another case. He said there is always some type of DNA left at a crime. It is just finding it. That’s why the perps get caught.

As far as burning KBs body, I don’t believe you can do that in the short time PF had to do that. In other cases it is stated it cannot be done without finding evidence of that body. I can see where they may have burned other evidence and that is why they found black plastic balls. In any case, PF may well be guilty.

I am not ignoring the evidence they may have. I believe there is more to the story, which is why I am waiting for the trial.

BBM. The story of the scented candles and ball bat sounds like soap opera fiction to me. There is no logic to killing KB in her condo and then taking her body to his home to burn when there was a giant wilderness so close by.

Of course there is more to the story. I'm just glad the local media isn't trying this case in the court of public opinion prior to the trial.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

BBM. The story of the scented candles and ball bat sounds like soap opera fiction to me. There is no logic to killing KB in her condo and then taking her body to his home to burn when there was a giant wilderness so close by.

Of course there is more to the story. I'm just glad the local media isn't trying this case in the court of public opinion prior to the trial.

JMO

Logic, and Patrick Frazee, are rarely said in the same sentence.

If the argument that a murder being “illogical” meant anything, then we wouldn’t have all these killers serving life sentences.

There was blood all over the bathroom, and splatter found on the fireplace.

This corroborates that the murder occurred in that house, and supports the account that he allegedly told KK.

Scorched earth was found at the burn site, as well as the presence of an accelerant.

Again, corroboration.

Stupidity is not a defense.

 

[GordianKnot]

Logic, and Patrick Frazee, are rarely said in the same sentence.

If the argument that a murder being “illogical” meant anything, then we wouldn’t have all these killers serving life sentences.

There was blood all over the bathroom, and splatter found on the fireplace.

This corroborates that the murder occurred in that house, and supports the account that he allegedly told KK.

Scorched earth was found at the burn site, as well as the presence of an accelerant.

Again, corroboration.

Stupidity is not a defense.

Ha. Precisely.

There's a reason prisons aren't teeming with class valedictorians.

No one here is crediting PF with being some sort of criminal mastermind.

The baseball bat makes perfect sense in light of who we're talking about.

Which is to say: This is PF we're talking about here.

He's like Wile E. Coyote's evil twin.

All that's missing is the ACME kit.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Ha. Precisely.

There's a reason prisons aren't teeming with class valedictorians.

No one here thinks PF is some sort of criminal mastermind.

The baseball bat makes perfect sense in the context in light of who we're talking about here.

Which is to say: This is PF we're talking about.

He's like Wile E. Coyote's evil twin.

All he's missing is the ACME kit.

JMO.

We could have a pretty solid debate in regards to the dumbest thing he did.

For me, it was keeping Kelsey’s phone, and texting and making phone calls from the same place.

If he had simply made her disappear, he very well might have gotten away with this.

Instead, he overthought things, and this was the best he could come up with

Good for justice. Bad for him.

 

[GordianKnot]

We could have a pretty solid debate in regards to the dumbest thing he did.

For me, it was keeping Kelsey’s phone, and texting and making phone calls from the same place.

If he had simply made her disappear, he very well might have gotten away with this.

Instead, he overthought things, and this was the best he could come up with

Good for justice. Bad for him.

Sure, debating is good.

Maybe taking a poll on the thread would be better, though?

Posters could cast their votes for "PF's Dumbest Move Ever."

JMO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Good post and I agree.

I'm hopeful we'll see an October trial. So much evidence we still don't know such as what was the true relationship between KK and PF?

JMO

They were boinking. Blaming Kelsey for their problems. And boinking.

 

[MassGuy]

They were boinking. Blaming Kelsey for their problems. And boinking.

Succinct. And likely true.

 

[GordianKnot]

They were boinking. Blaming Kelsey for their problems. And boinking.

I'd liken it to a heifer-stud relationship.

PF's not exactly a stud, but regardless.

Oh, and in addition to being his side piece, KK's also his cleaning lady.

So there's that, too.

JMO.

 

[MemPat]

We could have a pretty solid debate in regards to the dumbest thing he did.

For me, it was keeping Kelsey’s phone, and texting and making phone calls from the same place.

If he had simply made her disappear, he very well might have gotten away with this.

Instead, he overthought things, and this was the best he could come up with

Good for justice. Bad for him.

I'm up for that debate!

I assert that trying to recruit the dimwit Rodeo Queen time after time to murder Kelsey is right up there with the best of the worst.

I don't doubt that LE would have been on Patrick's trail anyway but without KKL, they would have struggled to fill out the story.

 

[MemPat]

They were boinking. Blaming Kelsey for their problems. And boinking.

And today's Internet prize goes to steeltowngirl!
(Extra points for restraint.)

 

[susiQ]

We could have a pretty solid debate in regards to the dumbest thing he did.

For me, it was keeping Kelsey’s phone, and texting and making phone calls from the same place.

If he had simply made her disappear, he very well might have gotten away with this.

Instead, he overthought things, and this was the best he could come up with

Good for justice. Bad for him.

I'm in!! PF's dumbest move ever......involving KK MOO

 

[MemPat]

I'm in!! PF's dumbest move ever......involving KK MOO

Great minds run together. JMO