Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

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otto said:
Looks like we're both 15km off:

"Gillam is 55 kilometres southwest of Fox Lake Cree Nation, where the torched SUV was found in bush off Highway 290 — which links the two communities along the Nelson River."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/manhunt-homicide-suspects-bc-manitoba-1.5222924
Click to expand...

See red dot item 6 in list below map: “A burnt-out RAV4 found 70km northeast of Gillam, on the Fox Lake First Nation, RCMP charge....

https://i.cbc.ca/1.5223989.15644091...line-b-c-homicide-couple-manitoba-manhunt.jpg
 
sillybilly said:
IMO, that's not jet stream going up. Looks more like something coming down, possibly a flare. Hard to tell what distance it's at.
Click to expand...

Not a flare, reporter clarified she saw jet.

I agree that the jet was flying straight forward (not up) given the contrail is more defined at "bottom" than it is at the "top." (Optical illusion implies up and down).

Also, smoke or condensation from a flare would disperse as it fell -- not be more defined.


Melissa Tait‏Verified account @meltait
Replying to @*************
I was very confused at first. I had no idea what it was -then saw the jet at the front of the jet stream. but your guess is as good as mine. There's CF base in Winnipeg, so coulda been that.

8:40 AM - 3 Aug 2019 pst
 
Chynna’s mum Sheila speaks of her anguish.

“I’m just sick to my stomach, literally,” Ms Deese told Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail. “I want them caught. I want them to have consequences … The story is about Chynna and Lucas, but so much of the focus is these boys, these evil, evil boys.”

(She also speaks of looking at the video of Lucas and Chynna fueling up.)

“I have watched that video 1000 times, just literally — the first night it came out, over and over and over,” Sheila Deese told The Globe and Mail.

“My daughter would not be the one to just sit in the van and wait on Lucas to fill up. She’s out cleaning every window — the front, the driver’s side. And I’m watching how meticulous she was, as I watched it over and over.

“On that embrace, I could hear them going, ‘Let’s do this. Let’s go.’ It was such a plan. It was a route they had planned out. It was not spontaneous.

“They had saved money, he had fixed up the van with a camper in the back. That video, being the last thing, is a gift to me, of how happy they were.”
Cops check new CCTV after fugitive teens seen at Ontario cafe
 

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otto said:
No one was reported missing. Chynna and Lucas were not reported missing, Dr Leonard Dyck was not reported missing, the teens were not reported missing. When the burned truck was discovered, police would have tracked the vehicle registration to Port Alberni and discovered that the teens were driving it. RCMP considered considered the teens missing on July 19. On July 21, their status was changed from missing to suspects.
Click to expand...

Wasn’t it Tuesday July 23 the first time they were publicly announced as suspects?
 
Pi Thoughts said:
Chynna’s mum Sheila speaks of her anguish.

“I’m just sick to my stomach, literally,” Ms Deese told Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail. “I want them caught. I want them to have consequences … The story is about Chynna and Lucas, but so much of the focus is these boys, these evil, evil boys.”

(She also speaks of looking at the video of Lucas and Chynna fueling up.)

“I have watched that video 1000 times, just literally — the first night it came out, over and over and over,” Sheila Deese told The Globe and Mail.

“My daughter would not be the one to just sit in the van and wait on Lucas to fill up. She’s out cleaning every window — the front, the driver’s side. And I’m watching how meticulous she was, as I watched it over and over.

“On that embrace, I could hear them going, ‘Let’s do this. Let’s go.’ It was such a plan. It was a route they had planned out. It was not spontaneous.

“They had saved money, he had fixed up the van with a camper in the back. That video, being the last thing, is a gift to me, of how happy they were.”
Cops check new CCTV after fugitive teens seen at Ontario cafe
Click to expand...

Heartbreaking. And so true that in a crime the focus is on the perp(s) and not the victims and this happens for family as well--one cannot almost grieve until justice is served because it is where the focus is, imo anyhow.

They were clearly and happily in love and the gas station video shows just that.

And two teen boys allegedly destroyed that. They had no such right. She is right, they are evil.

Jmo.
 
KR72 said:
RCMP will begin to drag part of the Nelson.

RCMP Manitoba on Twitter
Click to expand...

The first few comments on the tweet though :O

It will add to the cost of the whole manhunt but I think it’s necessary. The families first and foremost deserve closure, I imagine the finding of bodies would be somewhat better than not knowing if they are dead or alive somewhere.
 
RCMP Manitoba‏Verified account @rcmpmb
To assist in the ongoing search for the 2 BC suspects, Manitoba RCMP's Underwater Recovery Team (URT) will be arriving in Gillam tonight & divers will begin to search a section of the Nelson River tomorrow, Sunday, August 4. #rcmpmb

EBFKW_FWwAU4ZJ4.jpg

4:00 PM - 3 Aug 2019 pst
 
Twitter:

“To assist in the ongoing search for the 2 BC suspects, Manitoba RCMP's Underwater Recovery Team (URT) will be arriving in Gillam tonight & divers will begin to search a section of the Nelson River tomorrow, Sunday, August 4.” #rcmpmb
 
scrappinkat said:
The first few comments on the tweet though :O

It will add to the cost of the whole manhunt but I think it’s necessary. The families first and foremost deserve closure, I imagine the finding of bodies would be somewhat better than not knowing if they are dead or alive somewhere.
Click to expand...

Comment from India -- seen often, a standard reply. o_O
 
Seattle1 said:
Not a flare, reporter clarified she saw jet.

I agree that the jet was flying straight forward (not up) given the contrail is more defined at "bottom" than it is at the "top." (Optical illusion implies up and down).

Also, smoke or condensation from a flare would disperse as it fell -- not be more defined.


Melissa Tait‏Verified account @meltait
Replying to @*************
I was very confused at first. I had no idea what it was -then saw the jet at the front of the jet stream. but your guess is as good as mine. There's CF base in Winnipeg, so coulda been that.

8:40 AM - 3 Aug 2019 pst
Click to expand...

It looks wavering though? Jet streams are usually quite straight.
 
ilovechili said:
Heartbreaking. And so true that in a crime the focus is on the perp(s) and not the victims and this happens for family as well--one cannot almost grieve until justice is served because it is where the focus is, imo anyhow.

They were clearly and happily in love and the gas station video shows just that.

And two teen boys allegedly destroyed that. They had no such right. She is right, they are evil.

Jmo.
Click to expand...

It might be best for the families if the fugitives have died and their bodies are recovered. The families might have a few less answers but at least they won't have to see the two of them in the news for years during the trial and so on.

scrappinkat said:
The first few comments on the tweet though :O

It will add to the cost of the whole manhunt but I think it’s necessary. The families first and foremost deserve closure, I imagine the finding of bodies would be somewhat better than not knowing if they are dead or alive somewhere.
Click to expand...

Plus just for public safety reasons. The police have to do all they can to make sure there aren't potentially two killers on the loose.
 
I've been browsing the no-discussion media, maps, information thread (a superb resource BTW!) in another part of this site,
MEDIA, MAPS, TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION* Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, Leonard Dyck, BC, July 2019

and one of the items is exactly what I have been seeking, a map which shows what appears to be the location of the burned RAV4
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/upload_2019-7-31_13-19-47-png.196049/

I went seeking good imagery of that area, and so far, Bing maps gives me the best I've yet found. I'm going to try to link what I think it the precise spot.
Hrmmm, can't find a way to do that. However, here are the coordinates. 56.5158, -94.16349 If you got to bing maps Maps and past in those coordinates, it seems to work.

In one of the first photos of the burned RAV4 (the one first posted on social media, so I have no idea if I can link or post it here) you can see power lines. There appear to be telephone poles and the usual power line brush cut alongside this road. So, I think this, or at least close to it, is the location.

Now, for the reason why (speculation follows). This location is very, very close to some housing at Fox Lake, and also very close to the hydro project at the Nelson River (Limestone generating dam, approx 1 mile ESE of the RAV4 site). The RAV4 site is also just across the dirt road from some side tracks of the Hudson Railway (the Bing maps don't show the actual main line, just the side tracks for some reason, but google maps shows the main line).

So, within one mile of the RAV4 burn site, in this largely uninhabited wilderness, we see residential housing approx. 1 mile WSW (Bird), and a major hydro site, and also a quarry site for the railroad (at the end of that dirt road). There appear to be quite a lot of vehicles at the hydro site in the sat photo.

In other words, the spot the suspects chose to burn the RAV4 is the most populated and infrastructure-rich spot on the entirety of road 280 and 290 (excluding the branch that goes south of the river to Gillam). It is also just 100 yards from the Hudson Bay railway main line. My speculation is that this location was not coincidental - there are plenty of other spots between there and the end of the road where they could have torched the RAV4, places where it would have taken longer to be noticed, giving them added time to escape on foot if that was their intent.

Now, for the timeline. The RAV4 was found burning (and thus soon after being lit on fire) on the evening of July 23rd. July 23rd was a Tuesday. The suspects had been seen by the tribal officers at Split Lake alcohol checkpoint the prior day. Earlier on July 23rd, KM and BS had been publicly identified as suspects by the RCMP. I suspect they might have heard about this on the car radio, which prompted the burning of the RAV4.

Since the burning of the RAV4, no further confirmed sightings or evidence of their presence has been released. The search in the Gillam area reportedly began late on July 24th, a Wednesday. I'm basing this on the timeline in the media thread, media reports, plus the fact it would take the RCMP time to get people and vehicles on the ground and in sufficient numbers in the area, due to distance.

Now, train schedules. That rail line carries both passenger and freight service. Here is a link to the overview of the Hudson Bay railway, listing what that line (from The Pas to Churchill) is used for;
http://omnitrax.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/HBRY-brochure.pdf
The listing includes; "Major customers for HBRY include Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting, Tolko
Manitoba, Gardewine North, Imperial Oil, Petro Canada, Stittco Energy, and
the Canadian Wheat Board. Wheat and durum marketed by the Canadian
Wheat Board as well as other crops grown in Western Canada are exported
through the HBRY's affiliate, the Hudson Bay Port Company
, which is located at the northern terminus of the railway."

That indicates quite a bit of freight train traffic to the northern terminus (Churchill). It is also only one line, so any train heading up it must also return via that same line.

I have not, yet, been able to find any kind of a schedule for the freight trains, aside from an indicator from last year that one of them arrives in Churchill on Tuesdays.

As for the passenger service, on page 26 of this schedule,
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/schedules/VIARail_Timetable.pdf
it shows that in addition to the regular weekly service, there is a train (the 690) leaving Churchill at 19:30 (7:30 PM) on Tuesdays, passing through Bird (Fox Lake) at 4:00AM Wednesday, and then having a half hour stop in Gillam at 5:00AM, and arriving first at Thompson at 11:30 and The Pas at 23:30 (11:30PM).

So, between the time of the burning of the RAV4 (Tuesday evening) and the search in the Gillam area starting to kick off late Wednesday, a passenger train passed in the dark within yards of the RAV4 site, heading south, through curves, bridges, and terrain where it would have to go slow. (on many segments of that track, muskeg settling distorts the rails and causes the passenger train to slow to under 10mph, which would make jumping aboard easy). Likewise, it appears that freight trains pass through on that same line several times a week.

Either way, passenger train or freight, the suspects could reach Thompson or The Pas. I suspect that by the time they could reach The Pas, RCMP would have someone keeping an eye out at the rail yard, but they could simply jump a mile or so out of town, where the train would be going quite slow. It's worth bearing in mind that the suspects would have had ample time to think all this through, even if they are a bit slow on the uptake.
 
Arizona 123 said:
I've been browsing the no-discussion media, maps, information thread (a superb resource BTW!) in another part of this site,
MEDIA, MAPS, TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION* Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, Leonard Dyck, BC, July 2019

and one of the items is exactly what I have been seeking, a map which shows what appears to be the location of the burned RAV4
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/upload_2019-7-31_13-19-47-png.196049/

I went seeking good imagery of that area, and so far, Bing maps gives me the best I've yet found. I'm going to try to link what I think it the precise spot.
Hrmmm, can't find a way to do that. However, here are the coordinates. 56.5158, -94.16349 If you got to bing maps Maps and past in those coordinates, it seems to work.

In one of the first photos of the burned RAV4 (the one first posted on social media, so I have no idea if I can link or post it here) you can see power lines. There appear to be telephone poles and the usual power line brush cut alongside this road. So, I think this, or at least close to it, is the location.

Now, for the reason why (speculation follows). This location is very, very close to some housing at Fox Lake, and also very close to the hydro project at the Nelson River (Limestone generating dam, approx 1 mile ESE of the RAV4 site). The RAV4 site is also just across the dirt road from some side tracks of the Hudson Railway (the Bing maps don't show the actual main line, just the side tracks for some reason, but google maps shows the main line).

So, within one mile of the RAV4 burn site, in this largely uninhabited wilderness, we see residential housing approx. 1 mile WSW (Bird), and a major hydro site, and also a quarry site for the railroad (at the end of that dirt road). There appear to be quite a lot of vehicles at the hydro site in the sat photo.

In other words, the spot the suspects chose to burn the RAV4 is the most populated and infrastructure-rich spot on the entirety of road 280 and 290 (excluding the branch that goes south of the river to Gillam). It is also just 100 yards from the Hudson Bay railway main line. My speculation is that this location was not coincidental - there are plenty of other spots between there and the end of the road where they could have torched the RAV4, places where it would have taken longer to be noticed, giving them added time to escape on foot if that was their intent.

Now, for the timeline. The RAV4 was found burning (and thus soon after being lit on fire) on the evening of July 23rd. July 23rd was a Tuesday. The suspects had been seen by the tribal officers at Split Lake alcohol checkpoint the prior day. Earlier on July 23rd, KM and BS had been publicly identified as suspects by the RCMP. I suspect they might have heard about this on the car radio, which prompted the burning of the RAV4.

Since the burning of the RAV4, no further confirmed sightings or evidence of their presence has been released. The search in the Gillam area reportedly began late on July 24th, a Wednesday. I'm basing this on the timeline in the media thread, media reports, plus the fact it would take the RCMP time to get people and vehicles on the ground and in sufficient numbers in the area, due to distance.

Now, train schedules. That rail line carries both passenger and freight service. Here is a link to the overview of the Hudson Bay railway, listing what that line (from The Pas to Churchill) is used for;
http://omnitrax.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/HBRY-brochure.pdf
The listing includes; "Major customers for HBRY include Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting, Tolko
Manitoba, Gardewine North, Imperial Oil, Petro Canada, Stittco Energy, and
the Canadian Wheat Board. Wheat and durum marketed by the Canadian
Wheat Board as well as other crops grown in Western Canada are exported
through the HBRY's affiliate, the Hudson Bay Port Company
, which is located at the northern terminus of the railway."

That indicates quite a bit of freight train traffic to the northern terminus (Churchill). It is also only one line, so any train heading up it must also return via that same line.

I have not, yet, been able to find any kind of a schedule for the freight trains, aside from an indicator from last year that one of them arrives in Churchill on Tuesdays.

As for the passenger service, on page 26 of this schedule,
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/schedules/VIARail_Timetable.pdf
it shows that in addition to the regular weekly service, there is a train (the 690) leaving Churchill at 19:30 (7:30 PM) on Tuesdays, passing through Bird (Fox Lake) at 4:00AM Wednesday, and then having a half hour stop in Gillam at 5:00AM, and arriving first at Thompson at 11:30 and The Pas at 23:30 (11:30PM).

So, between the time of the burning of the RAV4 (Tuesday evening) and the search in the Gillam area starting to kick off late Wednesday, a passenger train passed in the dark within yards of the RAV4 site, heading south, through curves, bridges, and terrain where it would have to go slow. (on many segments of that track, muskeg settling distorts the rails and causes the passenger train to slow to under 10mph, which would make jumping aboard easy). Likewise, it appears that freight trains pass through on that same line several times a week.

Either way, passenger train or freight, the suspects could reach Thompson or The Pas. I suspect that by the time they could reach The Pas, RCMP would have someone keeping an eye out at the rail yard, but they could simply jump a mile or so out of town, where the train would be going quite slow. It's worth bearing in mind that the suspects would have had ample time to think all this through, even if they are a bit slow on the uptake.
Click to expand...

Thank you for looking into this. I explored options a week ago, with less detail than you discovered, and it looks like you arrived at the same conclusion - that it's equally possible that they hopped a train and left the area before the massive search began.

If they left the area, where did they go? I suppose the goal was to shake off the RCMP and it's possible they did that.
 
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