CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

[Cherwell]

Good list, and I would add no request for businesses to check camera footage, where they might have stopped to get gas, food, etc. Often in missing persons cases requests are made by LE to check video. For example, what if they stopped for gas or food and a strange man was spotted following her?

You assume. He will doubtless have told the police of any stops they made, and they would follow it up directly.

 

[sumzero]

So many of his expressions are concerning. “That’s the last I ever saw of her” sounds final, as if he knows he will never see her again.

When he referred to the “crime scene” grabbed my attention. How does he know there was a crime? How does he know where the “crime scene” is if indeed a crime did take place?

His description of what she was wearing, and stating his thoughts that she was abducted and taken to Las Vegas because she was wearing a bikini and holding a beer? How did he know she was holding a beer? Maybe she finished the beer before she reached the trailer? If she wasn’t able to get into the trailer did he think she just stood out by the road holding her beer can?

"...last I ever saw of her" sounds reasonable in context. He imagines her still holding a beer. So what? If she was holding one the last time he saw her, then he's probably still going to imagine her holding it the last 1/4 mile to the trailer. Besides, I thought it was a thermal cup, which she'd probably carry back to the trailer. I don't think it really matters. But the person who is so inclined can probably make every detail, however unexceptional, fit a narrative.

 

[155etta]

RT stated in the interview that BT wanted to "use the RV" (RT slipped through the word "use" as he described the situation, I had to slow down the interview to determine what he said), which I interpret as she had to use the on-board lavatory. Some people use the great outdoors to relieve themselves; others, not so much. I suppose it depends on what needs to be done.

As for BT's location/distance between the "corner" and the RV it seems tracking dogs were unable to reliably track BT's scent between the two locations for any discernible distance, assuming LE (via the reporter) is telling an accurate story.

Is it possible BT was experiencing an urgent need to relieve herself and maybe the RV was just too far away by enough that she couldn't make that seemingly short distance? If so, to which direction/where c/would she walk/run?

Might BT have turned to somewhere among the rock formations to find an obscured area? How deeply/thoroughly were the formations searched? Could the searchers have assumed BT would have been unable to scale/climb boulders?

Her going off trail to relieve herself (beer goes right through me) makes the most sense to me. I also can't figure out why RT would make up the part about her holding a beer, in a travel cup no less, if it weren't true. But why then, can't they find her? Any chance she might have been stung or bit by something venomous while squatting? If she was already overheated and possibly intoxicated, could she then have wandered off in the wrong direction?
Edited to add: I'm guessing if she had relieved herself nearby the SAR dogs would have picked up on that?

 

[PommyMommy]

LE was able to solve Mollie Tibbett's case due to a video clip turned in by a resident with a security camera. This happened weeks after her abduction. People are busy, especially this time of year, and can be unaware of events. The public can be the key to solving a case. The more attention that we can draw to this case, the greater likelihood that it will be solved, IMHO.

BBM

I couldn't agree more. @Knox, will you please post your list of media contacts again? TIA MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

There is a reason LE has not provided the public with more details about Barbara being missing. Three weeks have passed and not even a press conference asking the public for help. Nothing.

Their silence is telling. LE has so much information that will be out in the open once the investigation is completed.

JMO

Or they have no leads or at least have followed through with all leads and still haven't found any indication of what happened to her.

That may be why there have not been any updates. Imo

 

[PommyMommy]

Good list, and I would add no request for businesses to check camera footage, where they might have stopped to get gas, food, etc. Often in missing persons cases requests are made by LE to check video. For example, what if they stopped for gas or food and a strange man was spotted following her?

And dogs picked up no scent.

BBM

This request would not necessarily be made public. We've seen them go door-to-door to businesses along a particular route without broadcasting it to the public. I can't remember the case now, but I do recall that employees from a couple of the businesses talked to media or we would have never known about it. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, and I'm not a car person but I will add that it's an extended cab, and a dually. I'm guessing those fenders don't come standard but I'm not sure. MOO

I agree. I think that truck could have cost $60,000 out the door. The 5th wheel is probably not the base model, either. The reason I mention it is that there's some research to show that major purchases increase stress levels. Apparently, they'd had a series of recreational vehicles, though.

 

[squareandrabbet]

By "body fluids" I mean not just blood but urine, saliva, etc.
Highly trained tracking and air scenting dogs (which these were) do not require visible clues.
JMO.

Granted, I'm no science person, but would dogs really be able to track off of a (former) puddle of drool in the desert? As others have pointed out, fluids tend to evaporate pretty fast on fry-an-egg pavement at high noon. Whether they leave behind much of a scent, I cannot say.

Urine doubtless would, based upon my experience on the streets of NYC, but it doesn't smell instantly; it takes a while baking in the heat for that signature to evaporate.

I should think "blood" is being concentrated upon by those who are concentrating upon it above all other bodily fluids, because in addition to leaving behind the expected biological spoor, blood would leave behind a stain; and in the pantheon of things likely to happen I should think that someone who hit-and-ran in the desert, then pressure-washing (or similar) the pavement to remove the bloodstains before they move on with their hit-and-run victim, is the least likely.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Thanks, PommyMommy, I added a description as well as a picture.

Thank you @Kapua and @PommyMommy

 

[al66pine]

Fuel & Fuel Stops

...
The AC does not depend on the vehicle engine, so extra fuel stops would not be needed. A fifth wheel RV like the Thomases have is completely separate from the tow truck anyway. You can detach it and drive the truck separately. If the rig isn’t plugged into some source of power, either at an RV Park or a generator, the AC won’t run, although you could run the fans off the RV battery for awhile. Not all RV’s have generators powerful enough to run the AC. I doubt the Thomases would run the generator while parked along the road for a walk, so yes, it would heat up inside pretty rapidly in the desert. They do have insulation, but nothing like a house does. My information comes from eight years of full-time RVing in a 34’ fifth wheel. Fun times.

@Lilibet Thanks for your post. (snipped for focus)
@HongKongPhooey Good questions & I agree w Lilibet's explanation re running a/c in rig and a parked rig heating up quickly.

As Lilibet noted, generator in 5th wheel is entirely independent from pickup truck engine. If generator fuel (usu. gas or diesel) tank runs dry, can still drive pickup. And if pickup tank runs out of fuel, can still run generator to power a/c and other 110 volt elec. appliances in 5th wheel.

If they left Bullhead City, AZ w full pickup tank and full gen'r. tank, at 8:00-ish that morning, drove to Mojave location, no interim fuel stop would have been needed. They would have had plenty of fuel to continue.
Even if they left home, and drove continuously, say 5 hours, making side trips, zigging and zagging, circling back, then to Mojave, no fuel stop needed, imo.
@HongKongPhooey Does this answer your question?
___________________________
For several years post retirement, full-timed in motorhome, then Airstream, & have seen (just about?) everything w RVers' habits, practices, & quirks. As Lilibet said, fun times .

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Too late to Quote “Here’s a possible Interesting TWIST”

I think LE needs to find out what RT was doing earlier in the week before “they” went hiking on Friday.

If something had happened to BT in her Home, after she misses her flight the family would become concerned when she didn’t show up to visit her brother as planned. They would call RT and getting no answers then call LE to report BT missing, BUT the family WOULD NOT be able to report BT missing BECAUSE RT beat them to it by ALREADY REPORTING BT MISSING IN THE DESERT!

That would also account for RTs high intelligence plus the Bikini and Beer to draw attention to SHE WAS REPORTED MISSING in the DESERT!

 

[IceIce9]

Yes, with you on all those points.

What caught me also is all the detail, which really is not needed, i.e. holding the beer. It's almost as if he is relating this as something rehearsed.

This. Holding the beer, Las Vegas, bikini, his reference to the crime scene when LE has never given any indication that a crime was committed.

It all sounded rehearsed to me.

And other than RT’s words there has been no indication that anyone saw her on the trail, in the truck, standing next to the trailer, in the passenger seat, etc.

LE is too quiet. But they found no evidence of abduction.

I am sure they have asked RT to state their travels that day, the route they drove snd any stops they made.

 

[MsBetsy]

"...last I ever saw of her" sounds reasonable in context. He imagines her still holding a beer. So what? If she was holding one the last time he saw her, then he's probably still going to imagine her holding it the last 1/4 mile to the trailer. Besides, I thought it was a thermal cup, which she'd probably carry back to the trailer. I don't think it really matters. But the person who is so inclined can probably make every detail, however unexceptional, fit a narrative.

Yes, it was some sort of travelling cup, or whatever they are called.
He would assume she was carrying it back to the RV, but since it was never found, it would appear that she never made it back.
He believes something happened to her before she returned to the RV.

As for the use of the word "ever," I'm not sure that would suggest he knew he would never see her again, either. The searchers had already looked for several days at that point so the last time he ever saw her was when she was rounding the corner.
Maybe he had already given up hope at that point and was despondent, thinking she must be gone forever. Some people hang onto hope and others assume the worst. Imo

 

[IceIce9]

You assume. He will doubtless have told the police of any stops they made, and they would follow it up directly.

In other cases (Mollie Tibbits, Abby & Libby, etc) LE has made public pleas for business and homeowners to check their cameras.

 

[LAhiker]

Too late to Quote “Here’s a possible Interesting TWIST”

I think LE needs to find out what RT was doing earlier in the week before “they” went hiking on Friday.

If something had happened to BT in her Home, after she misses her flight the family would become concerned when she didn’t show up to visit her brother as planned. They would call RT and getting no answers then call LE to report BT missing, BUT the family WOULD NOT be able to report BT missing BECAUSE RT beat them to it by ALREADY REPORTING BT MISSING IN THE DESERT!

That would also account for RTs high intelligence plus the Bikini and Beer to draw attention to SHE WAS REPORTED MISSING in the DESERT!

While that would indeed have been a clever way to cover up a crime, our VI has reported that BT and RT were seen on a nearby surveillance camera leaving the house at 8:15am on the morning she disappeared. This, of course, does not indicate whether the rest of his account is true (or false), but it does imply that whatever happened to her, it did not happen at their home. MOO

 

[rkendmar]

Granted, I'm no science person, but would dogs really be able to track off of a (former) puddle of drool in the desert? As others have pointed out, fluids tend to evaporate pretty fast on fry-an-egg pavement at high noon. Whether they leave behind much of a scent, I cannot say.

Urine doubtless would, based upon my experience on the streets of NYC, but it doesn't smell instantly; it takes a while baking in the heat for that signature to evaporate.

I should think "blood" is being concentrated upon by those who are concentrating upon it above all other bodily fluids, because in addition to leaving behind the expected biological spoor, blood would leave behind a stain; and in the pantheon of things likely to happen I should think that someone who hit-and-ran in the desert, then pressure-washing (or similar) the pavement to remove the bloodstains before they move on with their hit-and-run victim, is the least likely.

I agree that the "hit-and-run in the desert" is the least likely scenario.
A dog's sense of smell, especially the 'nosey' and highly trained canines used in SAR can detect some amazing things.

"Dogs' sense of smell overpowers our own by orders of magnitude—it's 10,000 to 100,000 times as acute, scientists say. "Let's suppose they're just 10,000 times better," says James Walker, former director of the Sensory Research Institute at Florida State University, who, with several colleagues, came up with that jaw-dropping estimate during a rigorously designed, oft-cited study. "If you make the analogy to vision, what you and I can see at a third of a mile, a dog could see more than 3,000 miles away and still see as well.""
Dogs' Dazzling Sense of Smell

 

[Twistinginthewind]

BBM

This request would not necessarily be made public. We've seen them go door-to-door to businesses along a particular route without broadcasting it to the public. I can't remember the case now, but I do recall that employees from a couple of the businesses talked to media or we would have never known about it. MOO

This happened in the case of Jennifer Dulos's disappearance on May 24th (there's a very active thread here on WS for her). Her husband and his girlfriend were seen on video from a bakery disposing of items in trash bins in front of their business (LE later tied to her disappearance), and one of the bakery employees / owners told MSM about it; otherwise it would not have been public knowledge that LE had video footage from their business. IMO

 

[diggndeeperstill]

RT stated in the interview that BT wanted to "use the RV" (RT slipped through the word "use" as he described the situation, I had to slow down the interview to determine what he said), which I interpret as she had to use the on-board lavatory. Some people use the great outdoors to relieve themselves; others, not so much. I suppose it depends on what needs to be done.

As for BT's location/distance between the "corner" and the RV it seems tracking dogs were unable to reliably track BT's scent between the two locations for any discernible distance, assuming LE (via the reporter) is telling an accurate story.

Is it possible BT was experiencing an urgent need to relieve herself and maybe the RV was just too far away by enough that she couldn't make that seemingly short distance? If so, to which direction/where c/would she walk/run?

Might BT have turned to somewhere among the rock formations to find an obscured area? How deeply/thoroughly were the formations searched? Could the searchers have assumed BT would have been unable to scale/climb boulders?

I had heard this early on as well, then it really wasn’t discussed much. “Use the RV”. It’s interesting why he said that here. Why wouldn’t he put himself last and make sure she got to the RV ok especially because she didn’t just “want” to go back she “needed” to. And why did he not say this in all the other interviews?

If RT's story is truthful and BT was approx 1/4 mile from the RV, that would place her about here when he lost sight of her: Google Maps which is just after a little bend in the trail.

IMO, urgent need or not, unless there was someone else on the trail she wouldn't have walked or run anywhere. If it were me, I'd simply step off one side of the trail. And, although I'm perfectly capable, I'm definitely not going to scale boulders.

I don't know how extensive the search was in the area of the rock formations, just that members certified in cave searches and rope climbing were used. MOO

I think the fact that she was comfy in s bikini also probably says she’d squat where she needed to if she couldn’t make it. Also think as we age we are really in tune with our bodies and how long we can wait till we are desperate.

That's why I've been wondering if the FBI would be willing to help. ETA: Maybe they are helping and we don't know about that yet. MOO

I have as well. I think this is compounded as well by all the different agencies involved. I am not even sure who they all are. SBCO, And who else?

BBM

I couldn't agree more. @Knox, will you please post your list of media contacts again? TIA MOO

Has anyone heard back from reaching out? I haven’t.

Granted, I'm no science person, but would dogs really be able to track off of a (former) puddle of drool in the desert? As others have pointed out, fluids tend to evaporate pretty fast on fry-an-egg pavement at high noon. Whether they leave behind much of a scent, I cannot say.

Urine doubtless would, based upon my experience on the streets of NYC, but it doesn't smell instantly; it takes a while baking in the heat for that signature to evaporate.

I should think "blood" is being concentrated upon by those who are concentrating upon it above all other bodily fluids, because in addition to leaving behind the expected biological spoor, blood would leave behind a stain; and in the pantheon of things likely to happen I should think that someone who hit-and-ran in the desert, then pressure-washing (or similar) the pavement to remove the bloodstains before they move on with their hit-and-run victim, is the least likely.

My dog is not a trained search dog but I think he should be trained. We are selling our house and every time we come back after he is nose to the ground all over where they were. I hope they are t dropping body fluids in all those places! Surely these dogs would have found scent if she was there.

Too late to Quote “Here’s a possible Interesting TWIST”

I think LE needs to find out what RT was doing earlier in the week before “they” went hiking on Friday.

If something had happened to BT in her Home, after she misses her flight the family would become concerned when she didn’t show up to visit her brother as planned. They would call RT and getting no answers then call LE to report BT missing, BUT the family WOULD NOT be able to report BT missing BECAUSE RT beat them to it by ALREADY REPORTING BT MISSING IN THE DESERT!

That would also account for RTs high intelligence plus the Bikini and Beer to draw attention to SHE WAS REPORTED MISSING in the DESERT!

I agree it would be interesting to see what he was doing earlier in the week but not for those reasons. Our VI has stated she was seen at 8:15 that morning. But I am curious if he could have been to the desert earlier in the week to prepare a place there. Not saying the word. :/

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Fuel & Fuel Stops


@Lilibet Thanks for your post. (snipped for focus)
@HongKongPhooey Good questions & I agree w Lilibet's explanation re running a/c in rig and a parked rig heating up quickly.

As Lilibet noted, generator in 5th wheel is entirely independent from pickup truck engine. If generator fuel (usu. gas or diesel) tank runs dry, can still drive pickup. And if pickup tank runs out of fuel, can still run generator to power a/c and other 110 volt elec. appliances in 5th wheel.

If they left Bullhead City, AZ w full pickup tank and full gen'r. tank, at 8:00-ish that morning, drove to Mojave location, no interim fuel stop would have been needed. They would have had plenty of fuel to continue.
Even if they left home, and drove continuously, say 5 hours, making side trips, zigging and zagging, circling back, then to Mojave, no fuel stop needed, imo.
@HongKongPhooey Does this answer your question?
___________________________
For several years post retirement, full-timed in motorhome, then Airstream, & have seen (just about?) everything w RVers' habits, practices, & quirks. As Lilibet said, fun times .

It does thank you. My knowledge of "camper vans" is a VW 1970's style from childhood (think Scooby Doo...). We do have RVs here but our roads aren't really suited to the big beasts so they tend to be quite rare

 

[Kapua]

Granted, I'm no science person, but would dogs really be able to track off of a (former) puddle of drool in the desert? As others have pointed out, fluids tend to evaporate pretty fast on fry-an-egg pavement at high noon. Whether they leave behind much of a scent, I cannot say.

Urine doubtless would, based upon my experience on the streets of NYC, but it doesn't smell instantly; it takes a while baking in the heat for that signature to evaporate.

I should think "blood" is being concentrated upon by those who are concentrating upon it above all other bodily fluids, because in addition to leaving behind the expected biological spoor, blood would leave behind a stain; and in the pantheon of things likely to happen I should think that someone who hit-and-ran in the desert, then pressure-washing (or similar) the pavement to remove the bloodstains before they move on with their hit-and-run victim, is the least likely.

A "trailing" dog was able to pick up Laci Peterson's scent. It indicated that Laci's body left her home in a vehicle. A cadaver dog was able to find small body parts of Charli Scott that were in a dense tropical rain forest. These dogs, while not infallible, can find what humans often cannot. IMHO