Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #12

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NJSleuth91 said:
I mean...the descriptions we've gotten of his behavior pre-murder spree don't really make him look like that great of a person either. Telling classmates in detail about how he's going to brutally murder them and his entire family, harassing and doxxing other video game players so badly that they ended up leaving the game, fighting with his mom to the point that she was afraid of him, losing friendships due to his incessant praise of Hitler and statements about "imagine if we were killing people in real life instead of just a video game?"

I think if anything Kam is more of the Dylan Klebold in this situation because he seemed fairly normal to everyone. Either that or he was REALLY good at hiding his true self. But I do agree that neither of them would probably have killed without the other. I agree with the theory a couple of you guys said, that Bryer had the murderous impulses but not the confidence to carry them out, and Kam had the confidence but his "dark side" was more buried, and they basically fed off each other and convinced each other to go through with it. A big reason why I think this is the case is that neither of them actually had a known history of violence leading up to the murders...threats and other questionable behavior, yes in Bryer's case, but not any known action relating to it. Up until this point he was just your everyday troubled teenage edgelord, and most of those end up growing out of it and don't actually harm anyone. JMO.
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That's a really good summary, IMO.

The apparent lack of real world planning is part of both their generational position and their time spent gaming. I include some basic outdoor skills in several classes, and the gamers get so excited about actually trying to make something simple (like a fish hook...or a simple trap...or a simple net). Their ability to do this is almost always outstripped by classmates who have any kind of real world experience. Some women in the class always do better on all three of these things, because they have experience with sewing and other small handcrafts. The net knotting exercise is probably the simplest, but boy, are the results really bad (and the gamers often get super frustrated and embarrassed). Naturally, some of the gamers are okay, but even such things as choosing proper container size for mixing some lab ingredients may elude them.

Now, Bryer and Kam supposedly had some time in the woods, but I'm guessing they didn't actually have to tie off a boat, or work with oars, or make a fire that doesn't smoke much, or figure out which things are truly essential to survival

I believe that Bryer shot and killed Lucas and Chynna (but am mystified as to where he got his gun). Kam was then part of an ongoing manhunt. The two of them planned to rob people on their way up north, and I believe it was tacit that some killing might happen too. That means they were essentially suicidal or at least willing to die.

The burned camper/truck just screams "we're doing this for excitement!" to me. Everything in their life was boring. They had no intention of finding another boring job, they wanted maximum excitement out of their adventure. Each time the adrenalin wore off, they were in a worse position, survival-wise.

Turning themselves in would seem like losing. Inventing new personae and solving real life day to day problems was exciting, at first. If they are still alive, it still is. The amount of food, alone, that they'd have had to pack or find or steal from some cabin...well, I just seriously doubt they were able to put that much in their backpacks, if they even had it in the first place.

If it's possible that some people living in northern Manitoba have not heard of them, then it is possible they are getting help, as this forum has convinced me that Canadians are super helpful in general. I'm guessing Kam can be quite charming and that's probably part of his online persona as well, whereas Bryer is the more villainous type, online.

It's sad that young people live in a world where scripted lifestyles occupy so much of their time. I should mention that I've also done the above-mentioned crafts with 4th-8th graders, and the 4th and 5th graders do really well, they're still at an age where their fingers learn new things easily. Something happens, though, between that age and college age...for one thing, the college students have a hard time listening to instructions.
 
I have no idea if this is related to the case, but August 7th tweet on RCMP site: The Pas RCMP responded last night to a report of found human remains located near the University College of the North. The Pas #rcmpmb along with RCMP Major Crime Services & RCMP Forensic Identification Services continue to investigate.
 
aphoto said:
We know the boat wasn’t seen in earlier searches but that doesn’t answer the key question. Did they get in the boat the day they arrived in gillam and drown immediately and their belongings just washed up now or did they only drown in the last few days. Nothing else really matters. Either they died early on or they were under the cops noses for days.
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So far there's not enough evidence either way. My guess would be the first one as I just don't see these two evading an entire army's worth of manpower and technology for that long.

missy1974 said:
But we don't know what they could present to a court to have them declared dead or not. I am not ready to say they are dead until we hear more. It's also unclear to me if the RCMP are pulling completely out of Gillam or not right now, or if they are just scaling back. If they really think they are dead, they should be pulling the resources out of there, these 2 are not the only wanted criminals in Canada. JMO
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In the article I posted a couple of pages back, it said they are scaling back but will have at least some presence in the area still. I don't think they can legally say they're 100% sure they're dead for liability reasons unless a body is found. I think based on the evidence they're like 99.9999% certain they're dead but they don't want to take any chances with the safety of local residents. It would be a really, really bad look for the RCMP, and also a huge preventable tragedy of course, if on the off chance these two somehow survived and harmed someone else. Also, they still may want to attempt to recover more evidence and possibly the bodies. JMO.

missy1974 said:
Significant announcement from RCMP at 2:00PM Manitoba time... which is 30 minutes from now.

Twitter
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OMG...sounds like we might be getting some answers to these questions....
 
missy1974 said:
Hopefully the RCMP will be able to tell us exactly what they found on the shore. I am hesitant because they don't like to give us too much info lol
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If it’s linked to Fowler/Deese, they likely won’t mention it till trial.
 
Danaya said:
I think (hoping) the news will be bigger than that. I wonder if they found their remains.
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yeah, it could just be that they have done all that they can do, they may be dead, but they need to pull out of the area. I don't think they will say they are dead without bodies. These 2 were also considered "missing" at one time too, if they say they believe they are dead and they pop up again, ugggh!!! So I don't expect to hear a definitive "dead" unless there are bodies.
 
I have long suspected the killers are dead in the bush somewhere, but perhaps they drowned.
 
NJSleuth91 said:
In the article I posted a couple of pages back, it said they are scaling back but will have at least some presence in the area still. I don't think they can legally say they're 100% sure they're dead for liability reasons unless a body is found. I think based on the evidence they're like 99.9999% certain they're dead but they don't want to take any chances with the safety of local residents. It would be a really, really bad look for the RCMP, and also a huge preventable tragedy of course, if on the off chance these two somehow survived and harmed someone else. Also, they still may want to attempt to recover more evidence and possibly the bodies. JMO.
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IIRC from the early Gillam days, they do have 6 RCMP officers there full time, not like York Landing where there were none.

I agree about the legalities and I don't expect to hear a definitive answer unless they have much more than we know.
 
And even if they did get in the boat, where were they headed? A one-way boat trip to Hudson Bay, with no supplies, is almost as suicidal as just getting directly into the water. If they made it to Hudson Bay, where would they get food and drinking water?
 
scrappinkat said:
I wonder how differently a case like this is handled in USA and NSW where Stephen Fowler has experience. Are family members who’ve lost loved ones in a violent crime kept more informed about details during the investigation? In the case of Stephen Fowler and his years of experience if victim’s family are kept more informed this must be a huge frustration for him. Are there rules about putting in a FOI request? Could the Deese or Fowler family do that if they were so inclined or it something you must be in Canada or a citizen to do so?
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Well look at the LD case. It is sub judice (officially ongoing, since the issue of the charge and warrant) now so reporters are limited in what they can write on it. They have to be extremely unbiased. You'll see many eulogies to LD but nothing that will be tried as evidence like the position of the body, manner of death and so forth. Nothing that could bias a jury like stories all about how the family is suffering.

The LF/CD case is not bound by the same press restrictions right now because the fugitives are only suspects in that case. There's all sorts of stuff out there detrimental to the future defendants' case. The crushed families' pain. Stuff about the families themselves. Stuff not verified by RCMP.

In the Tim Bosma's wife Sharlene was totally kept in the dark on the LE's theory until the trial. The only hint she got was receiving her husband's remains (they were burnt in an incinerator and fit in a smaller than a shoebox-sized box.) LE didn't tell her anything. Then it all came out in days, blow by blow, in court.
 
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otto said:
Last week everyone was convinced that they were eaten by bugs or bears, delirious from exposure or hypothermia. On August 2, 11 days after they burned the car and 9km distance from the car, personal items were found on the shore of the Nelson river - something no one expected. Clearly the bugs, bears and weather did not kill them.
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Yes and the Survivalist-types mostly from afar also jumped right in giving media interviews offering their various “expert” opinions. Next up, experts on river navigation?

I think the RCMP had their eye on the river the entire time, prior to the sighting of the damaged boat. They pulled out of York Landing within 24 hours and announced their focus was on the area the RAV4 was found. Prior to that, media reports led us to believe the RAV4 was found close to the Fox Lake Cree Nation, a different location than on the edge of the abandoned Sundance townsite.
 
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