Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[sprucetip]

Makes me wonder if, initially, they were heading out to play a real life version of the game. However, after the killings of Lucas and Chynna, they had huge regrets so they stayed out of sight for a few days trying to decide what to do. They realized there was no going back and they were pretty well screwed, so they took advantage of Len and his RAV4 and high tailed it out of there. While driving all that time through BC to Manitoba they made a pack to each other. Just my thoughts.

I think it's simple, they knew from the start they weren't coming back at all. They wanted to be badasses and go on a bit of a killing spree. They were rushed, chaotic and had no plan other than to kill themselves at the end so they didn't really care what happened along the way. They probably burnt the vehicles for the thrill of it. I don't think they regretted anything but that's JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

But they need to. I find it interesting that they refer to confirming any link to the other murders, but not to these deaths.

It’s common sense. Most people are going to read what they said, and put two and two together.

They will confirm though.

 

[scrappinkat]

Legally that is. Murderers are considered innocent until convicted by a court of law.
In the court of public opinion, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

What do you make of OJ? Do you think he's innocent because he was found not guilty?

I think the concept of court of public opinion has changed meaning over the years. On the internet court of public opinion tends to be malicious and of a pack mentality.
Not interested in discussing OJ at all though, there’s just not enough time in my day to even consider that lol

 

[olivebpa1]

kam family home.

Did the Dad have guns? You would think he would have reported them missing to the police. Maybe Kam's parents gave him money on a regular basis (thought I read somewhere that the parents are kind of "well off") and he purchased the weapons off the street?

maybe he did tell the police his guns were missing. We don’t have that info. Or maybe the guns are from someone else. It will definitely be interesting to find out where they came from.

 

[Cherchri]

I think the trajectory and entrance wounds would have told them.

I imagine them sticking the barrels in their mouths, and doing it that way.

Especially if these were long-guns, like a rifle or shotgun (which is what I think they used).

They didn’t say murder/suicide, and each of them shooting the other one would require perfect timing.

So my comment appears out of context when not linked to what I was quoting..... I was referring to the RCMP's use of the words " appears to be suicides". We have no idea what sort of guns they are or whether or not they stuck the barrels in their mouths, etc. So LE cautiously phrasing the announcement until it is clear that it was self inflicted.......

 

[FactFinder3000]

Kam's family? That's what I'm wondering and maybe why they lawyered up and have kept quiet.

My problem with that theory is that there would be a risk of the parents noticing that the guns were missing. So I don't see them taking guns from the family home unless, of course, this was a suicide run all along.

 

[KR72]

If long guns then I still wonder how they hell they could hide those in the roadside check. You can't put them under a seat, and chances are they were not hidden in advance to evade detection in a search, since they were not expecting that at all.

I think they would have tried to hide them. Not because they were expecting a roadside check but it's not like you can just drive around with a couple of loaded rifles exposed in Canada. They may not have been expecting that particular roadside check but they must have been worried about being pulled over for the slightest infraction. For all we know they could have hidden them under the mat in the trunk of the SUV, (where the spare tire is located).

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

A suicide pact always seemed a possibility. Makes no sense for them to drive thousands of miles to the end of the road otherwise. R.I.P.

This Wired article tries to pull together research on why spree killers may kill themselves -
Why Spree Killers Kill Themselves

Quote: “Even when such killers have survived, their self-explanations have done little to shed new light on acts the rest of us can only grasp as psychotic. Inevitably, we are left with the bare facts of the attacks themselves to frame our understanding. Such facts may be bare. But they are far from silent.”

Frankly, I think that the theories we come up with at this point to explain the suspects’ behavior in this case (given the lack of facts) say more about each of us and our experience/views of human nature than they say about the case, per se.

For example, I find myself thinking that they may have planned a crime spree and brought weapons to carry it out but maybe found that whatever power (or other experience they expected) did not occur when they actually committed murder (see Wired article for more about possible motivations). Maybe they had some regret/remorse and so they fled without further killings and committed suicide?

But in lieu of any written message my theory of why their spree did not continue probably says more about me and the way I would like to see the world (and likewise for other theories that disagree with me are which are also not supported by verifiable facts) IMO

 

[scrappinkat]

I have every confidence in LE but I am a bit curious about how a suicide's gun would be found "near" his body. An odd turn of phrase, IMO. Not "with" his body or "in his hand" etc. but somewhere near. Probably nothing...

There’s been cases where that very question has been pivotal in deciding it’s solved or not.

 

[1987]

Did the Dad have guns? You would think he would have reported them missing to the police. Maybe Kam's parents gave him money on a regular basis (thought I read somewhere that the parents are kind of "well off") and he purchased the weapons off the street?

my point isn't to say anything abut the family. my point is if the guns came from the kam home then that would mean the guys left home with the guns. if they left home with the guns that would remove all of any little doubt that they planned something before they left home. be hard for someone to stage a death using guns from kam home so any doubts of a third party killing them would be removed for me also if they came from the family home.

 

[KR72]

My problem with that theory is that there would be a risk of the parents noticing that the guns were missing. So I don't see them taking guns from the family home unless, of course, this was a suicide run all along.

Maybe it's the guns that connected KM and BS to the victims after all? After LF and CD were found shot to death and BS and KM were reported missing, IF guns were missing from the McLeod home, the McLeod family would have been obligated to report that to the RCMP. Maybe the RCMP determined that the gun used to kill CD and LF was the same type(s) missing from the McLeod home, and they put two and two together from there.

 

[Peace777]

If long guns then I still wonder how they hell they could hide those in the roadside check. You can't put them under a seat, and chances are they were not hidden in advance to evade detection in a search, since they were not expecting that at all.

Yes that roadside check and those 2 manning it say they searched the vehicle. Those 2 would have been the last 2 guys that KM and BS would have been in contact with before burning the Rav4. How were 2 guns in the vehicle missed in the search? I guess if the guns were pistols they could have been hidden on their person. Hmmm

 

[Gina20]

Further to my statement about school assessments for children, the only way to get one seemed to be acts of violence in the classroom, not the playground. So when a child picked up a chair and hit another child on the head with it, that child was sent for a psychoeducational assessment. Ironically, the parent of the child had been asking for an assessment for two years. The other children in the class were afraid. I am not that parent, but I saw it play out.

Non-violent children did not get help, and they struggled.

 

[CanadianMade]

It’s coming, they’ve promised as much.

My concern was that they would keep quiet about many of the specifics, but that doesn’t appear that is going to be the case.

When they do release the information in a couple weeks, that’ll be the time to determine if it is satisfactory or not.

I was pleasantly surprised that they released as much as they did in that statement today:

Cause of death.

Tentative time of death.

Two guns.

To me "appears to be" isn't actually giving us the CoD and I wouldn't even count that as any sort of time of death, but yes, I know what you are saying.
I'm still waiting for all the details(the ones they actually do give us), but as I've said before I will welcome all 'I told you so's' at that time

 

[sprucetip]

I think they would have tried to hide them. Not because they were expecting a roadside check but it's not like you can just drive around with a couple of loaded rifles exposed in Canada. They may not have been expecting that particular roadside check but they must have been worried about being pulled over for the slightest infraction. For all we know they could have hidden them under the mat in the trunk of the SUV, (where the spare tire is located).

And it sound like that roadside check wasn't all that thorough, especially since they didn't go through everything.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Rapids in rivers are extremely loud, and they were between two big sets of rapids

my point isn't to say anything abut the family. my point is if the guns came from the kam home then that would mean the guys left home with the guns. if they left home with the guns that would remove all of any little doubt that they planned something before they left home. be hard for someone to stage a death using guns from kam home so any doubts of a third party killing them would be removed for me also if they came from the family home.

while I for the most part agree, I think one other consideration would make an exception to that line of thinking. In rural areas, long guns are protection from wild animals...(eg. grizzlies). If they felt they would be spending time sleeping/camping in the woods on their sojourn, they could very reasonably have taken long guns for that purpose.

 

[scrappinkat]

Not surprised by this outcome, both died by suicide.

I am curious though as to why no gunshots were heard, does anyone know why that might be?
Was the bush dense enough to muffle the sound?
Could they have had silencers of some kind?

Maybe this info will be forthcoming.

Even cloud cover on a gloomy day can affect how far the sound of a bullet being shot travels.

 

[webbie]

I’m surprised that they had 2 guns

I'm not. I thought they might have more but then again, they're Canadians. One each seems logic. 2 killers 2 guns.

 

[MassGuy]

Maybe it's the guns that connected KM and BS to the victims after all? After LF and CD were found shot to death and BS and KM were reported missing, IF guns were missing from the McLeod home, the McLeod family would have been obligated to report that to the RCMP. Maybe the RCMP determined that the gun used to kill CD and LF was the same type(s) missing from the McLeod home, and they put two and two together from there.

Excellent point.

And even if law enforcement didn’t have the weapons to perform ballistics on, the presence of both types of weapons at the crime scene (through ballistics), would be incredibly compelling.

If only one gun was used in that crime, it wouldn’t necessarily mean much, but two guns inflicting those wounds that match the missing weapons, would be huge.

 

[10ofRods]

I assume they'd have to douse it with gasoline and light a match, to make sure it burns entirely.

EDIT: If I were doing it I'd use diesel fuel instead of petrol, because petrol ignites far more explosively and can burn the arsonist if not lit up from a distance.

So...if they had run out of gas, what would they use? If they had a jerry can, surely they'd put gas in the tank. I guess they could have kept a can of gas just for that purpose. Which is strange. Maybe they had a can of diesel left from their own truck.

I would assume they needed an accelerant to get the kind of burns shown.