Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[whiterhino]

I was trying to explain that dying and spawning is a common occurrence in most games, but in survival games it's even more common since the point of it is to survive as long as you can against tough odds. The sleeping bag/shelter mechanic is ubiquitous. You could die ten times in a session. It's just a way to save your progress and not lose all of your items.

I do think that in general the media we consume can influence societal attitudes. Advertising works, after all. TV, films, literature and videogames can have a cultural impact.

But also keep in mind that videogames are regulated in the same way films are. At least they are in my country. Some games are age restricted due to mature themes, violence, language and other content not appropriate for kids. It's against the law to sell or supply such games - like GTA -to minors much in the same vein of liquor laws. There's a whole classified rating system.

I presume Canada and the U.S. are similar. If young impressionable kids are getting hold of and playing restricted titles, that's a parental supervision issue that needs to be looked at, not the fault of the game developers. MOO

I'm not sure if this was directed at me?

Yeah I understand how those games work and the whole saving your place/progress and gaining new lives etc. Also, it makes sense that items like sleeping bags, tents, tools etc would be part of the starting point or do-over point in a game that is about survival.

I don't think anyone here is blaming game developers, the media or even their parents for that matter? In fact, I think blaming their parents is against TOS?

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I was speaking in general terms, pointing out that age restrictions are already in place for a reason. Someone was wondering about the influence of violent games on young people. BS and KM are both 18+. I in no way was meaning to imply their parents are responsible for their specific gaming habits. Sorry if it came across that way.

 

[whiterhino]

I was speaking in general terms, pointing out that age restrictions are already in place for a reason. Someone was wondering about the influence of violent games on young people. BS and KM are both 18+. I in no way was meaning to imply their parents are responsible for their specific gaming habits. Sorry if it came across that way.

No problem here! It didn't come across that way to me, I was just trying to cover the bases and avoid trouble!

I agree. They're old enough that they didn't need parental supervision. Sorry if my tone came across negatively, I'm always on defense in this forum.

 

[scrappinkat]

Ok, thank you, that clears that up for me. OT: I have full coverage on my vehicle, as does my boss, on all his vehicles, because we frequently use any of them for work, and want to make sure everyone is covered no matter who is driving. Perhaps the van from the ranch had insurance for all workers, as any ranch hand may have needed to drive it?

If it had insurance then contacting the owner listed on it would have been very quick phone call, at which time the owner would be able to say yes so and so were driving the vehicle today, this week etc. It doesn’t seem like there was any valid insurance.

 

[PeoZ]

I wonder, did they not realize all vehicles are embedded with serial numbers? I’m stuck on the theory the reason the vehicles were burned was because they thought they’d become untraceable.

They'd have to be pretty stupid to think that burning a vehicle will make it untraceable. Surely they had seen movies/read books about serial numbers being filed off cars for this purpose. Surely they must have known that torching a car won't melt the serial number off.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I was dead wrong in thinking initially the two murder scenes were unrelated due to geographical distance. Such a sad, strange set of circumstances.

I wonder what evidence they have which convinced the RCMP they involved the same suspects. I like the theory someone else had upthread that maybe one (or both) of the guns is registered to Kam's family. That makes a lot of sense, I think. But if they took a gun from LD that also works in terms of the double suicide by gun part.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This beautiful First Nations poem was left by a donor on the
g******* page in aid of Helen Dyck.

I give you this one thought to keep
I am with you still
I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow,
I am the diamond glints on snow,
I am the sunlight on ripened grain,
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning’s hush,
I am the sweet uplifting rush,
of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not think of me as gone
I am with you still in each new dawn.

Just exquisite.

 

[missy1974]

That's correct. A man who saw a sleeping bag in Port Nelson came forward after the bodies were found to attempt to claim credit for leading RCMP to the bodies. He's quite a hero with the Globe and Mail newspaper.

The bodies were found 1 km from the "personal items" and the Mop and Pail newspaper has taken creative licence to make stuff up - as usual - pretending that the sleeping bag is one of the personal items. Daily Mail, Globe and Mail, tabloid.

I get that you don't think one has to do with the other, or maybe you just right out don't believe it. But here is an article from the cbc that quotes Sawchuk as well, does it make it more believable now?

Clint Sawchuk, owner of Nelson River Adventures, thinks he might have helped draw RCMP attention to the wide, fast-moving river that powers several hydro-electric dams.

He spotted what appeared to be a sleeping bag caught in willows and reported it to the RCMP. He believes the Mounties spotted the boat as they flew by helicopter to investigate.

"I'm very happy it's over and they found them," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bodies-found-manhunt-fugitives-1.5239053

I don't see this guy jumping up and down looking for attention and trying to take credit for "finding them". And actually, he did some interviews very early on when they started searching the area, he gave some pretty good insight into the area and the river, I believe that was on cbc too. I could only find 2 articles quoting him, one from Globe and Mail, one from CBC, the other articles reference the Globe and Mail from what I see.

 

[Moriarty]

I’m really interested in hearing more from the RCMP about this digital evidence they referenced since the bodies were discovered.

I know it’s just speculation at this point, but any ideas here? A manifesto left online? Messages to family or fellow gamers while they are on the run?

There was decent cell phone coverage for a good chunk of their flight eastwards...did they leave their phones on and ping off every tower from Slave Lake to Thompson?

Or being the badasses and outlaws they may have thought themselves to be, did they take photos of their victims, like screenshots of their greatest in-game victories, that got saved to iCloud or something similar?

Of course we don’t know, but I’m certain there’s something floating about out there. These two increasingly seem to me more Beavis and Butt-head than Holmes and Watson.

 

[PeoZ]

These two increasingly seem to me more Beavis and Butt-head than Holmes and Watson.

I realize the circumstances are dire, but damn did I lol at that!

 

[lettertothestars]

Hi, this is my first post on here, so I hope I’m not going against any rules or getting off topic.

<modsnip: removed info stated as fact without an MSM link>

 

[sprucetip]

I totally agree, for most young people great idea to go be independent and away from home for the first time. I think Whitehorse was random and pulled out of the air possibly to tell family... with no job experience, no skills, why Whitehorse? It's not booming. They would've had better luck entry level construction on the island with all the new construction or Alberta. I feel the Whitehorse story might be fake. JMO

Probably more jobs up here in Whitehorse than PA, every summer is a construction boom since the season is so short. Lots of new housing developments as well. There’s jobs in mines, road construction etc. What is weird is coming up mid July, most of the jobs are picked over by then. And then you’re back to the Walmart or Tim Horton jobs.

 

[PeoZ]

Probably more jobs up here in Whitehorse than PA, every summer is a construction boom since the season is so short. Lots of new housing developments as well. There’s jobs in mines, road construction etc. What is weird is coming up mid July, most of the jobs are picked over by then. And then you’re back to the Walmart or Tim Horton jobs.

I think that looking for work was just the excuse they told their families. Bear in mind that Bryer told his grandmother that they were going to Whitehorse and texted his father that they were going to Alberta.

I can't quite put my thoughts into words on this matter, but I honestly think that what they were doing was more akin to running away, for want of a better term. Going on a long joy ride, like Kam himself put it. Maybe they didn't plan for it to end the way it did, but it seems more and more like commiting a crime (or crimes) was on their list of things to do.

 

[sprucetip]

Their (Kam's family) silence is not comfortable. I feel they have more they are covering up than anything that has been publicized about Bryer. I don't know how you perceive it as 'respectful'. In my view it's not the 'open book' of Bryer that everyone has come to know, but rather the deathly silence of the equally if not more greater other half of the two killers. Silence isn't always golden.

I think it’s because that’s where the guns came from.

 

[sprucetip]

Their personal belonging were on the shore of the Nelson River 4km upstream of the boat, and we are to believe that a sleeping bag 111 downstream is related?

Possible, depends on the speed of the river and it not getting caught up on many thing for that 111km’s. If it’s 10km/hr, 10hrs later the sleeping bag is almost there.

The Yukon river might be comparable in terms of speed, in some areas where it’s as wide as I’ve seen the Nelson, it clips along at about 8km/hr.

 

[sprucetip]

Great. The Cold Lake witness also managed to work the blue sleeping bag into his narrative. It makes for a good story.

He did, he also mentioned it was draped over then fence or something? Which I found really perplexing. I’ve been stuck in mud many times and never pulled items out of my vehicle while doing that. You’re focused on one thing - getting unstuck!

But the RCMP would know if his original story included a sleeping bag.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Their personal belonging were on the shore of the Nelson River 4km upstream of the boat, and we are to believe that a sleeping bag 111 downstream is related?

It was a very swift flowing river and if it did belong to either of the teens, we don't know how long it was in the water for. The autopsies suggested they were dead for several days before they were found so it may well be possible that it travelled a long way down the river. Here's an excellent article on how that sleeping bag led to an exhaustive search culminating in police finding items that linked to the pair.

Tour guide Clint Sawchuk was cruising on the Nelson River, taking a group of tourists to the national historic site of York Factory on Friday, when he spotted a blue sleeping bag in the water, tangled up in some willows. [So he had witnesses]

He knew the sleeping bag could be significant because he was one of handful of local residents who had been helping the RCMP scour the river and shoreline for any sign of fugitives.

Mr. Sawchuk’s find, it turned out, led police to spot a wrecked rowboat later that day, which then triggered a concentrated police search on an area where two bodies were found Wednesday.

The sleeping bag was spotted around 11 a.m. floating near Port Nelson, where the Nelson River spills into Hudson Bay.

“They were on their way to Port Nelson to find the sleeping bag and that’s when they [spotted] the boat,” Mr. Sawchuk recounted.

It’s not yet known whether the teens had used the rowboat, but Friday’s discoveries touched off an intense police search of the shoreline and surrounding bush.

ETA: RCMB even borrowed one of his boats for the search.

How a river guide’s sharp eye, and a sleeping bag, triggered a search that ended the RCMP manhunt

 

[sandbar]

Interesting article from the Georgia Straight: there is a BC law that prevents murderers from profiting from their stories, or assigning a relative as an agent to sell their story, that was put on the books after Willie Pickton wrote and tried to sell his story in a book. Because BS is dead and did not assign rights to AS, AS may be in the clear...legally, but morally? Should the law be fine-tuned?

...

I have a question about an Australian broadcaster's interview last weekend with the father of a suspected triple murderer.

Did 60 Minutes Australia pay money or any other form of consideration to Alan Schmegelsky, the father of Bryer, for speaking exclusively on its TV program?

It's a serious question because in 2016, the British Columbia legislature voted in favour of the Profits of Criminal Notoriety Act.

Profits of Criminal Notoriety Act

And the Australian show's interviews with Schmegelsky occurred on B.C. soil.

...

B.C.'s Profits of Criminal Notoriety Act is designed to prevent people charged with serious crimes—or their agents, including relatives—from cashing in by selling their stories or memorabilia.

...

There are fines of up to $50,000 for those who buy or sell information or memorabilia in violation of the law in British Columbia.

Read the whole thing here:

Australia's history of chequebook journalism raises question about televised interview with father of Bryer Schmegelsky

Has AS become a punching bag?

 

[LoisLane]

Interesting! That wasn't on the site last time I checked, about a week ago, not that I recall anyway.
I wonder if they might have taken a slight liberty with the date range, in order to help sort the wheat from the chaff on any tips? There was a murder a few years ago in central BC where the found the burned-out truck of the victims off a logging road, and didn't mention there was a bullet hole in it. That omission led to finding the killer via one of the tips standing out.

A couple of threads back, I posted something I'd spotted on that Alberni Valley Crimestoppers website (I'd been wondering if the suspects had committed crimes in the area, perhaps prompting their sudden departure from home).
File #2019-3033 | Alberni Valley Crime Stoppers
The picture of the suspect, IMHO (and I'm not good at recognizing people) reminded me of Kam McLeod. I know the report of the red sedan driven by an accomplice raises some issues (Bryer being reportedly unable to drive) but, driving an automatic on quiet streets is incredibly easy (I did that just fine on my first lesson when I was 15) so I'm having trouble believing Breyer was totally incapable of driving. Or, it might have been someone else involved. (or more likely still, I'm wrong and this has nothing to do with the suspects).

Make sense to me! The cig carton heist may have been modified too.. it says a dark coloured sedan. Maybe it belongs to the Grandmother. It certainly does look like it could be either of them.

 

[Castlinghigh]

I’m really interested in hearing more from the RCMP about this digital evidence they referenced since the bodies were discovered.

I know it’s just speculation at this point, but any ideas here? A manifesto left online? Messages to family or fellow gamers while they are on the run?

There was decent cell phone coverage for a good chunk of their flight eastwards...did they leave their phones on and ping off every tower from Slave Lake to Thompson?

Or being the badasses and outlaws they may have thought themselves to be, did they take photos of their victims, like screenshots of their greatest in-game victories, that got saved to iCloud or something similar?

Of course, we don’t know, but I’m certain there’s something floating about out there. These two increasingly seem to me more Beavis and Butt-head than Holmes and Watson.

I agree, also I am surprised that no video from steam or twitch has been uploaded
these two played video games - amongst this type of gaming comes massive online interaction between players
note:
their gaming accts probably didnt have their real names- but, LE can trace the ISP address to them