Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[SiciC]

He seemed very excited by his son's actions, saying "way to go boys", "Kudos", they are smart, etc. He said that his son would go out in a "blaze of glory".

As some others said, this is being misinterpreted as Alan cheering them on for evading police. He was filmed saying that on the day they were seen in Saskatchewan, before they had been named suspects. Alan still thought they were just missing, possible victims themselves. He had no inkling at that point that they were suspected of anything. He heard they were seen alive in Saskatchewan and was happy about that, that's when he made those comments. He said he was happy they weren't "lost in the woods" or dead. It wasn't about them getting away with anything.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Yeah, my reading of that Profits of Criminal Notoriety Act is that it only applies to the actual person convicted of the crime, nobody else. The reason that relatives are mentioned is that the criminal is not allowed to have profits that they make from their story go to a spouse, ex-spouse, or relative.

So AS is not the person convicted of the crime AND he wasn't recounting the crime anyway, so the columnist's suggestion that he was not allowed to be paid for an interview is just way, way off base.

 

[KR72]

It's not like he is out there talking trash about them. He has expressed apologies even to them and their families.
The media is going to be reporting on this no matter what. Every time the victims families turn on the news they are going to have salt poured into their wounds. I don't think he has any intention of doing that.

Free clinics on Vancouver Island are not necessarily a way to solve things considering there is likely a VERY lengthy waiting list for that.
I agree that counseling would be the best choice. I don't agree that it is as easily accessible as people seem to think.
I spent almost 3 years on a waiting list for sexual assault counseling. Luckily I had support of a few close members of my family. I personally think that he may not have that support, and if the media is encouraging him to speak up he may not have someone next to him to remind him that it isn't really the best idea to do so.
And as I mentioned before, if he hasn't received any answers, and has no other way to try and find them....talking to the media could be what he sees as his only option. I wouldn't expect anyone to be thinking clearly in his position right now.

ETA: If him discussing it publicly is wrong, then all of us discussing it publicly is as well.

The difference is we are not relatives of the suspects gaining notoriety here. His victim-hood in this situation is not the same as what the families of his son's victims are experiencing, not even close. The 60 Minutes interview, the timing of sending his book to various media outlets is all for notoriety, not for seeking answers to anything. What answers did he get from the 60 Minutes interview? And what about BS's mother in all this? AS sent out a book where he apparently constantly bashes her after charges of criminally harassing her, only no one seems to care about her and how difficult that must have been for her at a time like this.

If he needs/wants answers, he'll either have to wait until the RCMP are finished with their report or he could call a reporter who could help him deal with the RCMP and ask questions for him instead of appearing publicly.

If there's a long waiting list for free or low cost therapy, then if he truly wants help, he'll get his name on a list, call a crisis line, or press matters with a GP. The man truly needs some serious help and the media isn't the answer to it.

The media is acting like vultures with no regard for him or the victims' families. Talking to them won't help him one bit, and it sure isn't doing anything to alleviate the pain of the others either.

 

[SnooperDuper]

As some others said, this is being misinterpreted as Alan cheering them on for evading police. He was filmed saying that on the day they were seen in Saskatchewan, before they had been named suspects. Alan still thought they were just missing, possible victims themselves. He had no inkling at that point that they were suspected of anything. He heard they were seen alive in Saskatchewan and was happy about that, that's when he made those comments. He said he was happy they weren't "lost in the woods" or dead. It wasn't about them getting away with anything.

No, it was made the day that they evaded the checkpoint in Split Lake.

 

[sandbar]

dbm

 

[missy1974]

Thanks for this information. I edited the post to highlight two things that seem relevant me: 1) the law covers notoriety for those who are charged with a crime and 2) includes relatives of the person.

So, to my way of thinking, the suspect’s father is free to share his views in the media but he should not be able to make a profit from it. Whether prosecutors would or could seek to hold him accountable is another question. I do think this law makes sense and I hope it might inhibit future profit making endeavors based upon the notoriety of the crimes on the part of relatives.

Reading everything at the link, it's a bit confusing to me actually. Just look at the title of Part 2... Part 2 — Contracts for the
Recounting of Designated Crimes.... this to me means that no one can profit from telling their side of the crime, whether directly or indirectly. But in this case, I don't think AS has any knowledge of the crimes that took place to recount them? He has information about what Bryers childhood was like, or his life, but he has no intimate knowledge of the crimes themselves, and Bryer isn't here to ever tell him his 'story' to retell.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

ETA the link
Profits of Criminal Notoriety Act

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

Upon further research I can appreciate the complexity of the laws regarding profiting from criminal notoriety. For example, see this 2016 article “Robert Pickton can't be prevented from profiting from memoir”.
(Quote: “There is nothing to prevent Canada's most prolific serial killer from making money as an author even as he sits in prison for the slayings of six women.”)

I think the combination of the 1) public’s desire to know more, 2) the father’s desire to express/process his thoughts, and 3) the media’s desire to get the scoop/get clicks makes for a perfect storm. I think that public outrage over what seems unethical (see the Pickton story) motivates laws which differ across Canadian provinces as well as globally. So the laws (which may be very hard to enforce) lag behind the public’s ethical views. Public views on the ethics of sharing and possibly profiting from criminal notoriety differ tremendously (eg from not limiting free speech to protecting victims families).

My hope is that eventually a responsible journalist will publish material that includes the RCMP final report to help make sense of the entire matter. And that in the meantime the father’s public attempts to process the event do not add to unduly to the grief/anger of the victims family. I also wish that the media would show restraint and not engage in what I see as an exploitation of the father’s confusion and grief - but given the motivations I know some will not refrain.

 

[MistyWaters]

As some others said, this is being misinterpreted as Alan cheering them on for evading police. He was filmed saying that on the day they were seen in Saskatchewan, before they had been named suspects. Alan still thought they were just missing, possible victims themselves. He had no inkling at that point that they were suspected of anything. He heard they were seen alive in Saskatchewan and was happy about that, that's when he made those comments. He said he was happy they weren't "lost in the woods" or dead. It wasn't about them getting away with anything.

According to this, if true, AS also though the early reports of the Split Lake “band constable” referred to a police checkstop. It certainly appears he didn’t want his son to peacefully give himself up at any point in time and I do wonder why that is. From the very onset all of AS’s comments eluded to his death wish upon them IMO.

“As he feared for his son’s welfare, he revealed he was overjoyed when discovering they had gone undetected when passing through a police check as they headed east across Canada’s north.

“These boys are smart, they’re intelligent.. kudos boys, kudos,” he told 60 Minutes referring to the sighting....”
'Kudos boys': Dad praises suspected killer son after huge Canada murder manhunt

 

[scrappinkat]

Reading everything at the link, it's a bit confusing to me actually. Just look at the title of Part 2... Part 2 — Contracts for the
Recounting of Designated Crimes....

I’m not sure about other countries but deciphering the Criminal Code of Canada can be incredibly confusing (not just a little bit lol). Are there any verified lawyers on site that we can tag

 

[sandbar]

Reading everything at the link, it's a bit confusing to me actually. Just look at the title of Part 2... Part 2 — Contracts for the
Recounting of Designated Crimes.... this to me means that no one can profit from telling their side of the crime, whether directly or indirectly. But in this case, I don't think AS has any knowledge of the crimes that took place to recount them? He has information about what Bryers childhood was like, or his life, but he has no intimate knowledge of the crimes themselves, and Bryer isn't here to ever tell him his 'story' to retell.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

ETA the link
Profits of Criminal Notoriety Act

This matter came up because AS might have been paid by the AUS tv show 60 Minutes, for his interview; it's not about the book he wrote prior to crimes occurring.

Earlier on in the mass that is the discussion someone said he might get as much as five figures. I enthusiastically hoped he made a tonne and uses it wisely. I hadn't considered that transaction under the light that he might be profiting from a crime, hmmm...

 

[scrappinkat]

Upon further research I can appreciate the complexity of the laws regarding profiting from criminal notoriety. For example, see this 2016 article “Robert Pickton can't be prevented from profiting from memoir”.
(Quote: “There is nothing to prevent Canada's most prolific serial killer from making money as an author even as he sits in prison for the slayings of si

This played a major part of the reason that the Profits Of Criminal Notoriety ACT was enacted, or passed, into law on May 19, 2016.

 

[Optics]

Bus his son has committed crimes and the only reason why AS would make any money, be of any notice, is because of his son's crimes.

So it's ok by you for AS to profit from his son's crimes? It's ok for him to continue to disparage his wife in the press after 10 years of criminally harassing her?

Dylan Klebold's mom has made 'profit' not only from her book but from all her speaking engagements, among many MANY other 'relatives' of crimes their own have committed. Having said that in the case of Mr. Schmegelsky, I seriously and hardly think or feel, he'd end up on the New York #1 Best Sellers list, additionally, if 60mins Australia paid him, it definitely was not a Canadian media - which I guess doesn't matter, but I hardly think they've paid him enough money for him to retire into any life of luxury or even remotely close. I seriously feel the word 'profit' is a buzzword that is being used far too loosely in MSM right now. The fact is there are thousands upon thousands of people (and I'll say I am one of them) that watched the interview and waited for 'something' over the past month, and hoping we could glean more insight from AS. Then when we get it, ( I don't for a minute his tears were brought on by holding a raw onion to his eyes)...then when we get it, we rip apart the very source that gives us some insight into in this case his son. What do we the public do? We take those bits and build our theories and then cast the man's own personal devastations aside. Its kind of a double edged sword - he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. So who really is it in this whole tragic horrid situation that is the really 'bad' person? A broken father mourning the loss of everything he wished for in his child's future? Or, is it 'us' - meaning media, general public, social media, etc? We all aren't innocent in this pot of soup, LOL.

 

[MistyWaters]

Reading everything at the link, it's a bit confusing to me actually. Just look at the title of Part 2... Part 2 — Contracts for the
Recounting of Designated Crimes.... this to me means that no one can profit from telling their side of the crime, whether directly or indirectly. But in this case, I don't think AS has any knowledge of the crimes that took place to recount them? He has information about what Bryers childhood was like, or his life, but he has no intimate knowledge of the crimes themselves, and Bryer isn't here to ever tell him his 'story' to retell.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

ETA the link
Profits of Criminal Notoriety Act

AS isn’t accused of murder, he’s not writing or speaking about his direct involvement in the murder of three innocent people so this Act isn’t applicable to him whatsoever. If it were so, no True Crime writer, no TV show would be able to comment on any murder case if it involved profit, which it almost always does.

 

[missy1974]

I’m not sure about other countries but deciphering the Criminal Code of Canada can be incredibly confusing (not just a little bit lol). Are there any verified lawyers on site that we can tag

I know we have some verified lawyers on the site, but not sure if we have any verified Canadian lawyers.

This matter came up because AS might have been paid by the AUS tv show 60 Minutes, it's not about the book he wrote prior to crimes occurring.

Earlier on in the mass that is the discussion someone said he might get as much as five figures. I enthusiastically hoped he made a tonne and uses it wisely. I hadn't considered that transaction under the light that he might be profiting from a crime, hmmm...

I understand why it's being discussed, but if I'm reading the Act correctly, he is not "recounting the crime", he really can't considering he has no knowledge of the crimes and he can't recount Bryer's version of the crime since Bryer is gone. I have a feeling that him talking about Bryer, his life, etc is not against the law according to this Act. JMO I wish the media would just stop giving him the platform, and for those that don't like, don't click it and don't watch it, that's about all we can do I think.

 

[rickcross]

Upon further research I can appreciate the complexity of the laws regarding profiting from criminal notoriety. For example, see this 2016 article “Robert Pickton can't be prevented from profiting from memoir”.
(Quote: “There is nothing to prevent Canada's most prolific serial killer from making money as an author even as he sits in prison for the slayings of six women.”)

I think the combination of the 1) public’s desire to know more, 2) the father’s desire to express/process his thoughts, and 3) the media’s desire to get the scoop/get clicks makes for a perfect storm. I think that public outrage over what seems unethical (see the Pickton story) motivates laws which differ across Canadian provinces as well as globally. So the laws (which may be very hard to enforce) lag behind the public’s ethical views. Public views on the ethics of sharing and possibly profiting from criminal notoriety differ tremendously (eg from not limiting free speech to protecting victims families).

My hope is that eventually a responsible journalist will publish material that includes the RCMP final report to help make sense of the entire matter. And that in the meantime the father’s public attempts to process the event do not add to unduly to the grief/anger of the victims family. I also wish that the media would show restraint and not engage in what I see as an exploitation of the father’s confusion and grief - but given the motivations I know some will not refrain.

Paul Bernardo wrote and published a book from prison. I don't think there is any law preventing that, so long as they don't write about the actual crimes.

 

[Optics]

IMO if that’s the case he should be writing his opinion piece targeting the media who sought out and exploited the father.

OMG @scrappinkat thanks for saying that, that is exactly the scathing response I had to the reporter when he published the first article about this 2 days ago. I agree so much !

 

[Optics]

No, it was made the day that they evaded the checkpoint in Split Lake.

He was being more sarcastic than cheering them on.

 

[FactFinder3000]

According to this, if true, AS also though the early reports of the Split Lake “band constable” referred to a police checkstop. It certainly appears he didn’t want his son to peacefully give himself up at any point in time and I do wonder why that is. From the very onset all of AS’s comments eluded to his death wish upon them IMO.

“As he feared for his son’s welfare, he revealed he was overjoyed when discovering they had gone undetected when passing through a police check as they headed east across Canada’s north.

“These boys are smart, they’re intelligent.. kudos boys, kudos,” he told 60 Minutes referring to the sighting....”
'Kudos boys': Dad praises suspected killer son after huge Canada murder manhunt

This completely ignores what was said in the comment that was being replied to.

The kudos quote is being taken out of context. He was elated to see that his son was alive, as opposed to dead in the woods somewhere, as he may have feared. His son was missing and had not yet been declared a suspect when he said that..

 

[missy1974]

AS isn’t accused of murder, he’s not writing or speaking about his direct involvement in the murder of three innocent people so this Act isn’t applicable to him whatsoever. If it were so, no True Crime writer, no TV show would be able to comment on any murder case if it involved profit, which it almost always does.

I think some are saying that he is an "agent" as defined by the Act.

 

[LoisLane]

It would be interesting to know where BS and KM were when the book was revealed to the media. Could have been another tipping point unfortunately.