Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

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I feel the same way. Many times I have found myself wondering "Am I really doing a positive thing here by discussing this case? Or am I being no better than the sensationalist media vultures?" All the previous cases I've been interested in were missing and unidentified cases, and at least then there is the possibility of an "armchair sleuth" actually solving a case (in fact I've made significant contributions to two unidentified cases that ended up being solved as a direct result of the publicity they got on the internet). I've never had more than a passing morbid curiosity about the perpetrators of a case before. I have no rational explanation for why I am so obsessed with this case in particular, and sometimes I do feel bad about it. If any of the families found Websleuths, I don't think they would be happy about it, and I really hope they never do find it.

But I guess I do have the ultimate goal of trying to make something good come out of this tragedy, which is why I've been talking so much about ways it could have been prevented. I don't know what, if anything, I can personally do, but discussing it is a start. I think my obsession with this case has continued because of my very, very strong feeling, which has only been bolstered by the evidence I've read so far, that it was a slow-moving trainwreck years in the making that could have been stopped if people paid better attention. And because it's just like, a microcosm of all of the problems I've been seeing eat away at our society more and more, and it's reached a point where I just can't watch it happen anymore without trying to do or say something to stop it. So for me personally I do feel like it's much bigger than just morbid curiosity. I've always been the type of person with a bit of a "save the world" thing and I guess this is just the latest iteration of it. JMO.

I see a disturbing trend of young men becoming alienated from society and acting out their anger with guns in mass shootings. Why does this keep happening over and over again? How can it be stopped?

I am certain that friends and family read these threads, and perhaps some comment here. It has happened in other threads.
 
I still haven’t managed to find a video with his saying “blaze of glory”, despite watching many, with a few articles even stating they were the whole interview.

That statement was made in AS's first interview where he was wearing a cream coloured top, not the black T-shirt seen in the second interview. I saw the first interview and know he said it, but later when other posters said they didn't hear it, I searched through a huge cache of articles I had at the time and was very surprised to see that the statement had been deleted from every one of those interviews. I believe someone made a direction to the media to have it removed. However, I still retain some copies of what he said, and from memory, this was pretty much the entire interview. Everything not in quotes was also heard during the interview:

"A normal child doesn't travel across the country killing people. A child in some very serious pain does," Schmegelsky said in an emotional interview Wednesday in Mill Bay, B.C., near his home in Victoria.

Alan Schmegelsky said he expects his son will die in a confrontation with police.

"He's on a suicide mission. He wants his pain to end," he said, breaking down into tears. "Basically, he's going to be dead today or tomorrow. I know that. Rest in peace, Bryer. I love you. I'm so sorry all this had to happen."

Even if his son is caught, his life will be over, the father said.

"He wants his hurt to end. They're going to go out in a blaze of glory. Trust me on this. That's what they're going to do."

They were "everyday, good kids" who didn't get into trouble, but his son had problems at home and, at 16, briefly moved to Victoria to live with him, Alan Schmegelsky said. The boy then returned to Port Alberni to live with his grandmother.

"He hasn't been nurtured. He doesn't have a driver's licence. He never learned to ride a bike. He craved love and affection," he said. "His influences haven't been good. His influences have been YouTube and video games."

He loved strategy and battle video games, in particular, Schmegelsky said, and two years ago his son asked for an airsoft gun for Christmas. Schmegelsky bought it for him and the teen and his friends would "battle" each other in the woods, he said.

Schmegelsky said his son doesn't own any real guns and doesn't know how to drive. He worked at the Port Alberni Walmart after graduating from high school earlier this year, but was disappointed with the job and told his dad he was setting off to Alberta with McLeod to look for work.

The father recalled that his son bought a nice black suit with his second paycheque from Walmart.

"Now I realize it's his funeral suit."

https://infotel.ca/newsitem/father-...cts-son-will-go-out-in-blaze-of-glory/it64300

A second link:
Canada murder suspect Bryer Schmegelsky's father says son is on "suicide mission" as police hone in on Gillam, Manitoba - CBS News
 
I want to know what all those keys are for...
:D

Posted by @Cdndadeh on Thread 10, p.44 #874

I worked as a locksmith for 10 years in my younger days... I can say with reasonable assurance that there are two Toyota keys at least one house key either a kwikset or weiser brand and the smaller keys belong to small cam locks they could be locks for a camper, mailbox, filing cabinet, padlock or many other things. But I would put money that those keys are Toyota keys!
 
Generalizing any national character is always a fool's game.

From our BC perspective though, within days of the tourist's murders their grisly fate had all but disappeared from the msm, seemingly filed away as just another 'Highway of Tears' killing. That all changed suddenly once the couple's identities were revealed, and the story vaulted back onto our front pages while Australian and US press began to vent some national outrage.

It would appear then, that given our rcmp's dramatically more urgent (and appropriate) response to the International coverage, that some crimes do shock more than others.

And yet, here in Ontario - and during my vacay in NS - we watched and read daily MSM coverage from the day they were discovered deceased, through the days of trying to figure out who they were as well, to the end. So it may have fallen of the BC media radar, but we followed since the beginning on the opposite coast. Weird.
 
In a thread wayyyyy back, we went over the “blaze of glory” thing, and it was stated that he never said that exact phrase, instead the media made that up and attributed it to him.

I think people are scrutinizing him because he’s so out there with everything and basically trashing his ex-wife. Plus there’s not a lot of sympathy for someone who was charged with harassing his ex. Repeatedly. He’s got a lot to answer for in terms of not being there and helping raise his son in a healthy environment.
This keeps being brought up and I have no hatred towards this man but in his second interview, AS was a complete mess, walking to and fro, fidgity and red eyed and he said, 'they would go out in a blaze of glory', and that's the Bryer he knows.

Those few people who didn't watch the original video, can blame the 'demon' media all they like because they believe they misrepresented what AS said, but in this case, it happened, those were HIS words.
It was a terrible interview, reminded me of Anna Nicole Smith's last interview before she committed suicide. Terribly irresponsible of the reporters to speak to a person who's deeply distressed and showing clear signs of mentally instability, be upset about the interview taking place and aired, they've removed it for good reason but they won't remove his words.
I normally wouldn't defend the media but gee, they didn't put those words in his mouth and I'm sure someone has downloaded the video, not the one where he's sitting calmly on a grassy slope, speaking, that's NOT it. If one likes facts, there's one.
 
I have wondered if either one of this pair were facing homelessness in the near future. If so, that could explain why they decided to leave. The "long joy ride": what does it mean? No longer welcome at home?

I never assume that people with means will help their children with vocational training or post-secondary education expenses. I never assume that parents will allow their children to stay at home while getting an education. I have seen students whose parents could have afforded to help them out without batting an eyelash, but wouldn't lift a finger to go with them to an open house day or even to arrange a student loan. Step-parenting situations seem to complicate things in some cases.

Some parents still tell their children to get out as soon as high school ends. Others give their children deadlines to get on with their lives. BS wasn't living with a parent, and his school years had just ended. He would have understood what being homeless means.

We've never heard if either of these two had any long-term goals of any kind. We've never heard if either one had been told to move on and move out.

More things we may never know.

This is something I’ve been wondering about too. KM graduated in 2018 and as far as we know was working at Walmart for 5 weeks before they left. What was he doing for the last year? Did he have another job before the Walmart?
 
That statement was made in AS's first interview where he was wearing a cream coloured top, not the black T-shirt seen in the second interview. I saw the first interview and know he said it, but later when other posters said they didn't hear it, I searched through a huge cache of articles I had at the time and was very surprised to see that the statement had been deleted from every one of those interviews. I believe someone made a direction to the media to have it removed. However, I still retain some copies of what he said, and from memory, this was pretty much the entire interview.

You can still find that very first interview video on youtube. I don't think I'm allowed to link it. However he definitely doesn't say the "blaze of glory" thing in that first interview in the said cream colored top. At that point, he thought they were missing and essentially says he thinks that they witnessed something and went to hide in the woods because they knew how to hide out there from all their practice "playing war". His quote at the end of the interview is this: "If there was any threat, they would've done what they've actually trained themselves to do, and they would camouflage themselves in the woods. If there's any hope that Bryer and Kam are alive, it's because they play airsoft and they would've gone in the woods and they know how to hide. Cause they've been doing this for the last two and a half years. I'm saying, as a dad, those two boys are still out there. Go find them."
(yes I really did just listen to his exact words to relay them here lol)

So he didn't appear to think anything off at the time, he didn't think his kid was going to end up a dead fugitive at that point. He just thought they were out there missing or lost somewhere in that first interview.

That being said, I do believe he said the blaze of glory thing in the 2nd interview, but it was snipped out of the video. You can tell that parts were edited in that 2nd interview video. It's not a full, non-stop recording.. its clipped together. He also isn't heard saying anything about the funeral suit in that interview, it was just reported. He is heard saying the "RIP Bryer, I love you. I'm sorry this had to happen, I'm so sorry I couldn't rescue you" in the video though.

ETA: Everything in the comment I'm replying to was accurate and spot on except that it was all reports and quotes from the second interview, not the very first. Both videos can be found on YT. :)
 
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<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>

1) I don’t think morbid curiosity is pathetic but instead research suggests it stems from empathy. “But think of the empathy that can arise from witnessing death or destruction. This emotion—possibly the ground of all morals—is rare, but it frequently arises when we are genuinely curious about dreadful occurrences.” From The Moral of the Morbid | Psychology Today

2) And, to follow-up, our expectations for how we think the suspect’s parents should or should not respond may stem from the empathy we are feeling (e.g., whether we are empathizing more with the position of the suspect’s parents, the victim’s parents, or even the general public expecting some response). It seems to me that there has been some expectation (and perhaps disappointment) with the lack of information regarding the McLeod suspect/family as evinced by past discussion posts. It probably has skewed ideas about the relative roles played by the suspects. Perhaps when a final RCMP report is issued the McLeod family, with adequate advice, will make a second statement. But I can certainly understand their desire for privacy and their right to try to achieve it.
 
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I have wondered if either one of this pair were facing homelessness in the near future. If so, that could explain why they decided to leave. The "long joy ride": what does it mean? No longer welcome at home?

I never assume that people with means will help their children with vocational training or post-secondary education expenses. I never assume that parents will allow their children to stay at home while getting an education. I have seen students whose parents could have afforded to help them out without batting an eyelash, but wouldn't lift a finger to go with them to an open house day or even to arrange a student loan. Step-parenting situations seem to complicate things in some cases.

Some parents still tell their children to get out as soon as high school ends. Others give their children deadlines to get on with their lives. BS wasn't living with a parent, and his school years had just ended. He would have understood what being homeless means.

We've never heard if either of these two had any long-term goals of any kind. We've never heard if either one had been told to move on and move out.

More things we may never know.

This is a really good theory. I've read that usually a bad life event, such as a job or relationship loss, happens shortly before a mass killing that pushes the perpetrator(s) over the edge. Plus we've speculated on whether Kam's parents were pressuring him to get his life together, since it's possible he was not even working for a year after graduating if he did graduate in 2018 (there's some question about whether he graduated in 2018 or 2019), and if he just decided to leave abruptly because of that. There's also evidence to suggest (ie. the lack of mention in the school records) maybe Bryer didn't actually graduate and just pretended to his family that he did. If so, he could have been concerned about being kicked out when his family found out. Especially because articles stated he quit school in Grade 10 and then when he went to live with his grandma he went back to school, so she likely took education seriously. And because his dad was long-term homeless, that was a subject he was very familiar with.

I see a disturbing trend of young men becoming alienated from society and acting out their anger with guns in mass shootings. Why does this keep happening over and over again? How can it be stopped?

I am certain that friends and family read these threads, and perhaps some comment here. It has happened in other threads.

Well, a multitude of studies show that social isolation is rising in our society, especially among men. Mental illness is also rising, which could be both the cause and effect of social isolation. Suicide rates are rising as well. Our mental health system is overburdened and a lot of people do not have access to services. And when they do have access to services, a lot of times those services are less than ideal in their execution. We do not have strong communities anymore where people keep an eye out for each other. Instead we have a highly individualistic society where it's very easy for people to fall between the cracks, and people prefer to pass the buck on these kinds of situations so that they don't have to face liability. When there's a situation where a family unit goes off the rails, often nobody steps in. On top of that we also have a stagnation of socioeconomic mobility in the past few decades, which just compounds the other issues. We have a culture that has a contradictory relationship with anger and violence, where basically we have all this over-the-top glorified violence in the media, but also expressing anger is often frowned upon. And, you know what, guns are very easy to access too. This is probably controversial but I was pro-gun before this case...this case changed everything for me. Something is clearly very wrong in our culture when an 18-year-old with a history of disturbing behavior posts a picture on social media with a gun in their mouth, and the picture is not removed for weeks or months, and all of their friends either think it's a joke and don't tell anyone, or just avoid them.

I sincerely hope none of the affected friends and family are reading here, but if they are, I send them my condolences and apologies for anything posted here that may have upset them.
 
Hey, y'all, just dropping in with some more info I found. Nothing ground-breaking but thought might be useful in light of previous discussions about Steam and their schooling (separate post).

I know we've talked a lot about whether or not Kam was a game mod/admin. After someone mentioned it was for a Rust group specifically and not the game, I think I was able to trace the source of this information. It's true he was a "group officer" for 1 of the Steam groups Bryer belonged to--it's called Terrorist Deniers but from what I can gather from the public group comments they played Rust together. Or they talk about Rust. I have no idea. Took me forever to parse what was going on. LOL The visible comments and activity are all from 2014-2016, but it seems like as a group officer he did have some admin abilities.

Source: Bryer

He also was in a couple of the same Counter-Strike: Global Offensive groups that Bryer was in, but they were both just members.

The most interesting thing I found about it, though, is that Bryer did belong to quite a few groups that Kam wasn't in, ranging from gaming groups to interest groups (mostly politics, anime, and hentai). Since Kam's profile is private, I can only see the ones that he was in with Bryer, and they are all gaming specific.

In any event, though, I get the impression that Bryer was probably more of a social butterfly on Steam than Kam was, which kind of makes sense. I imagine that since Kam was more outgoing, it wasn't as important of a socialization outlet for him, but for Bryer, it seems like it was definitely a big part of his online social scene.
 
I think he said it.

---

However, few things annoy me more than when I use an idiom and then people try to claim I said something I never meant to say. It's a idiom. Here's a definition, from Collins Dictionary:

blaze of glory: If you go out in a blaze of glory, you do something very dramatic at the end of your career or your life which makes you famous.

There is no reason to think that AS was praising BS's actions. He was just using a common idiom. The words are not meant to be taken literally.

idiom: an expression whose meanings cannot be inferred from the meanings of the words that make it up

And here is a list of synonyms to "blaze of glory", lest the meaning be lost:

claim to fame
crowning moment
day in the sun
finest hour
heyday
hour of glory
in a blaze of glory
magic
minutes of fame
moment in the sun
moment of glory
moment of triumph
shining moment
swan song
swansong


93 Blaze of glory Synonyms - Other Words for Blaze of glory
 
As for schooling: I need help from someone with familiarity with the Canadian/British Columbia school system.

The internet leads me to believe (High school in Canada) that Canadian high schoolers usually finish school when they are 17 or 18 years old. This would mean that Kam graduating last year when he was 18 would be on time and Bryer having the possibility of also finishing last year at 17 (on the verge of 18) was not outside the realm of possibility. Is this correct?

I had at one time wondered how much older Kam was but since the court records system gives him and Bryer as both being born in 2000 (CSO - Search Traffic/Criminal By Participant Name) we know that they were just a few months apart. So, I think it is reasonable to assume they usually were in the same grade. In my experience, it's much more unusual for close childhood friends from school to be from different grades, especially in elementary school, though not impossible.

I am wondering if the amount of time Bryer dropped out of school put him back a year, and that's why Bryer was finishing a year later than Kam. If Bryer didn't finish--which, again, we don't know because we have conflicting information--I suspect Kam not being there with him might have been less of an incentive for him.

Or is it possible since Bryer was a few months younger, he just ended up in a lower grade? My birthday is a day before his and I always just barely made the deadline for my school district and was almost always the youngest kid in class. I couldn't figure out if Canadian school districts worked the same way, though.

The one tidbit I came up with is I was searching the PA school district website for their names. I could come up with nothing on Bryer--though I did learn I have memorized how to spell his last name correctly and it made me feel creepy LOL. The only listing for Kam was a staff bulletin from February 2015 for the Alberni District Secondary School noting he had an excused absence for one day. (https://www.sd70.bc.ca/school/adss/...etters/Documents/Feb - 2015.pdf#search=mcleod). Unless VAST staff bulletins carry the ADSS letterheard, it seems like Kam at least spent Grade 9 at the regular high school before transitioning to the alternative school at some point in his high school career.

I think it is equally likely that Kam went to VAST first then Bryer followed or that Bryer went to VAST first and then Kam followed. In any event, if they were in separate grades, I think it makes sense that they'd think being in the same school together but not the same grade was better than nothing.

Searching the school website and coming with nothing on them except 1 absence suggests to me they weren't involved in any extracurricular activities, though it's possible the district scrubbed the website of any mention of them after they became infamous. But I've also searched their hometown newspaper and can't find mentions of them before "the long joyride."
 
Hey, y'all, just dropping in with some more info I found. Nothing ground-breaking but thought might be useful in light of previous discussions about Steam and their schooling (separate post).

I know we've talked a lot about whether or not Kam was a game mod/admin. After someone mentioned it was for a Rust group specifically and not the game, I think I was able to trace the source of this information. It's true he was a "group officer" for 1 of the Steam groups Bryer belonged to--it's called Terrorist Deniers but from what I can gather from the public group comments they played Rust together. Or they talk about Rust. I have no idea. Took me forever to parse what was going on. LOL The visible comments and activity are all from 2014-2016, but it seems like as a group officer he did have some admin abilities.

Source: Bryer

He also was in a couple of the same Counter-Strike: Global Offensive groups that Bryer was in, but they were both just members.

The most interesting thing I found about it, though, is that Bryer did belong to quite a few groups that Kam wasn't in, ranging from gaming groups to interest groups (mostly politics, anime, and hentai). Since Kam's profile is private, I can only see the ones that he was in with Bryer, and they are all gaming specific.

In any event, though, I get the impression that Bryer was probably more of a social butterfly on Steam than Kam was, which kind of makes sense. I imagine that since Kam was more outgoing, it wasn't as important of a socialization outlet for him, but for Bryer, it seems like it was definitely a big part of his online social scene.

I’ve noticed it mentioned here quite often that K was more outgoing of the two. This media report from yesterday, featuring their hometown, indicates B was more outspoken of the two. Outspoken typically refers to the opposite of quiet and introverted so different people seem to have varied impressions about who was most outgoing. Maybe both were?

“But some remembered Mr. Schmegelsky, who enjoyed military battle video games, as the more outspoken of the two, who had been best friends since they were children....”
Hometown of Canadian Teenage Murder Suspects Grapples With Infamy
 
This is also old, but this guy called it. Interesting interview and the expert said the two had about a three to seven days to remain alive in the Northern Manitoba wilderness. He was right about just about everything aside from being holed up in a cabin.

 
As for schooling: I need help from someone with familiarity with the Canadian/British Columbia school system.

The internet leads me to believe (High school in Canada) that Canadian high schoolers usually finish school when they are 17 or 18 years old. This would mean that Kam graduating last year when he was 18 would be on time and Bryer having the possibility of also finishing last year at 17 (on the verge of 18) was not outside the realm of possibility. Is this correct?

I had at one time wondered how much older Kam was but since the court records system gives him and Bryer as both being born in 2000 (CSO - Search Traffic/Criminal By Participant Name) we know that they were just a few months apart. So, I think it is reasonable to assume they usually were in the same grade. In my experience, it's much more unusual for close childhood friends from school to be from different grades, especially in elementary school, though not impossible.

I am wondering if the amount of time Bryer dropped out of school put him back a year, and that's why Bryer was finishing a year later than Kam. If Bryer didn't finish--which, again, we don't know because we have conflicting information--I suspect Kam not being there with him might have been less of an incentive for him.

Or is it possible since Bryer was a few months younger, he just ended up in a lower grade? My birthday is a day before his and I always just barely made the deadline for my school district and was almost always the youngest kid in class. I couldn't figure out if Canadian school districts worked the same way, though.

The one tidbit I came up with is I was searching the PA school district website for their names. I could come up with nothing on Bryer--though I did learn I have memorized how to spell his last name correctly and it made me feel creepy LOL. The only listing for Kam was a staff bulletin from February 2015 for the Alberni District Secondary School noting he had an excused absence for one day. (https://www.sd70.bc.ca/school/adss/StaffInformation/Newsletters/Documents/Feb - 2015.pdf#search=mcleod). Unless VAST staff bulletins carry the ADSS letterheard, it seems like Kam at least spent Grade 9 at the regular high school before transitioning to the alternative school at some point in his high school career.

I think it is equally likely that Kam went to VAST first then Bryer followed or that Bryer went to VAST first and then Kam followed. In any event, if they were in separate grades, I think it makes sense that they'd think being in the same school together but not the same grade was better than nothing.

Searching the school website and coming with nothing on them except 1 absence suggests to me they weren't involved in any extracurricular activities, though it's possible the district scrubbed the website of any mention of them after they became infamous. But I've also searched their hometown newspaper and can't find mentions of them before "the long joyride."

In Canada, you begin school according the year you are born. So if Bryer and Kam were both born in the same year, but Kam finished high school a year earlier than Bryer, that means the either Bryer was held back a year, or dropped out and then returned or Kam would have had to advanced a year (skipped a grade).
 
I’ve noticed it mentioned here quite often that K was more outgoing of the two. This media report from yesterday, featuring their hometown, indicates B was more outspoken of the two. Outspoken typically refers to the opposite of quiet and introverted so different people seem to have varied impressions about who was most outgoing. Maybe both were?

“But some remembered Mr. Schmegelsky, who enjoyed military battle video games, as the more outspoken of the two, who had been best friends since they were children....”
Hometown of Canadian Teenage Murder Suspects Grapples With Infamy
Yes, I remember seeing that but multiple people have said Kam was more outgoing, though, and there are references to him being more engaged in with people and events than Bryer. He's reported to have attended LAN tournaments that Bryer apparently wasn't seen at. Friends seem to recall Kam fondly as someone fun to hang out with, and people who encountered him as acquaintances also say he was likable, indicating he wasn't super withdrawn. One of the people who knew Bryer said he was very quiet until he was in a group of his friends. Even Bryer's great-uncle admitted Kam was more outgoing than Bryer.

I wondered if "outspoken" was being used in the context of that article as a synonym for "blatantly disturbed." And though I found that article interesting, it also seemed a bit sloppy. They couldn't decide if they spelled Kam's last name as Mcleod or MacLeod, it said they worked at WM for several "months" as opposed to "weeks," and they gave Kam's dad's occupation as commerical fisherman when he actually co-owns a barge towing service.
 
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And yet, here in Ontario - and during my vacay in NS - we watched and read daily MSM coverage from the day they were discovered deceased, through the days of trying to figure out who they were as well, to the end. So it may have fallen of the BC media radar, but we followed since the beginning on the opposite coast. Weird.
With the decline of newspapers aren’t most of us following non-local news via national sources anyways? If somebody asked me about the ‘Ontario media’ I’d probably just look confused. Maybe I’d come up with the Toronto Star if pressed, but even that is a pseudo-national source.
 
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