CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[Micheline]

How Many Times Did BT Vanish?


@firstsleuth Thx for your post w quote from @dbdb11's sister's text msg, which I snipped for focus. Let's say for sake of discussion, RT literally/verbatim
said on the phone to fam member - "We lost sight of each other for 5-10 min before she vanished."

Huh? What's that? If RT & BT had already lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes, then she had already vanished/was out of site, before she "vanished."

How to understand/explain ^ stmt?
1. Under stress of the situation, RT spoke less precisely/less accurately than we sleuthers would wish for in every MisPers case? IOW maybe he just repeated that she vanished, a slip of the tongue anyone could make. Jmo, <<< possible.

2. During the 5-10 min RT & BT lost sight of each other, they were still within hearing range of each other, and they were speaking to one another? Then BT visually "vanished" afterward. Jmo <<< possible. (What would they be talking about, presumably talking loudly, then more loudly, as she walked further away?)

3. They lost sight of each other. Then something happened, something he does not want to talk about. Afterward he returned to RV. Jmo, <<< possible.

4. Other??? What explanation am I overlooking?

Taken w a few of his other stmts (polygraph, crime scene, prime suspect, etc.), ^ seems a bit unusual.

Since Barbara was walking ahead of Robert, she would be walking with her back facing Robert, Robert not being in her sight at this point.

Since Robert was making pictures of something, he did not have Barbara in his sight at that point, just like he wasn't in Barbara's sight.

He did see her briefly in the distance when putting his camera away. She turned a corner, and vanished shortly after.

She did not vanish twice. IMO

 

[Jim_M]

Photo of MisPer, Same Day or How Recent?
Hesitating to post on ^ topic because I think this horse is already on the way to the glue factory, but.....

Yes, in many cases these days, LE releases same-day photo of MisPer wearing same outfit/clothing as when they went missing. Media releases typically specify w pic 'MisPer was last seen in this outfit on [day]' or describe the clothing. Alternatively 'MisPer at her birthday party in February' or 'MisPer at her 2016 retirement party ' and 'She was last seen wearing [blank].' The point - w pic, LE/PIO usu gives date or year. IIRC, SBCSO released pic of BT, w no date or year, which seems uncommon.

Seems some think it's hinky that RT did not/could not provide LE a pic of BT from earlier that day in same outfit as lost (if that is accurate), but imo, not unusual or suspicious per se. Maybe he does not take 'ppl pix' maybe just landscape pix. Can anyone tell if RT took many or all fam pix that @dbdb11 shared w us? Thx in adv.

I think I understand where this could lead. And that you appear to be on the right track. There is something hiding in all this picture taking. IMO as always.

@PommyMommy notes that @sroad found that cell service was poor in the area.

@sroad said:


CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

@10ofRods said "there's cell service at Kelbaker."
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

The site Campendium has reviews for campgrounds in the area, including cell phone service. This one seems to be the closest:
Hidden Hill Road Reviews - Campendium

Bottom line, there seems to be some cell service there, but it's not very good. So RT might or might not have had cell service there, and might've had to drive to call 911. I think some may have expressed suspicions if he did move the truck/RV. But as far as I know, LE has not said they thought the vehicles were moved. Confirming the time-frame -- when RT/BT did their hike and when he called 911 -- might help clarify this.

My guess at this point is that RT stayed at Kelbaker/Hidden Hill and that the initial LE report "20 miles north of the I-40, east of Kelbaker" came from poor localization of his cell phone by the 911 system. But that's just a guess, and I don't know whether cell localization can be that incorrect.

JMO

We know he made that call. Do they really know exactly from where?

Apologies for asking as no doubt this was clarified days ago. But what facts do we have verified from LE re timings of the calls?

Those are the only details I'm interested in.

Because any other info told to our VI by RT or another relative is just that - info told, second hand and not proven.

I think it's important to be crystal clear to avoid creating perceived fact out of hearsay?

JMO

Spot on as always. Thank you for your clarity.

 

[katydid23]

LE said they have photos of Barb on the 12th, and they do believe Barb was there. LE have not shared much else with me.

As far as I know LE have NOT released any photos from that day. I don't know why they haven't, but at this point, like you @Micheline, i dont think it matters.

LE have the photos, as well as bodycam footage on the day. They have roberts initial statements and they scoured the surrounding area for ten days.

whether she was wearing bikini or underwear.... irrelevant to me. hat color also of little consequence to me. There may be very talented sleuths here who can make a lot out of those details.

i didnt even think to ask the kennel what she was wearing. i am looking for motive, including backstory. because, imo, Barbara could not have gotten lost where robbie claims they were, and she could not have been abducted without robert knowing, based on his own accounts.

my own opinion.

somebody has been lying to me about what happened on july 12th.

Great post, and I agree with your sentiments.

 

[oviedo]

I know we can never assume anything in these cases - but surely LE has the camera and has examined it ? Why not release the picture of her (there is one right?) which confirms what she was wearing at the time the picture was taken ?? Why the secrecy in this case ? Unless they have evidence that the release of the picture does not matter because they aren’t searching for a kidnapped alive BT now? JMO

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

 

[distracted]

I think I understand where this could lead. And that you appear to be on the right track. There is something hiding in all this picture taking. IMO as always.



We know he made that call. Do they really know exactly from where?

It appears the answer is maybe. As of this time last year, the answer would likely be no based on this article. The iPhone at that time did not have that capability for 911 calls. It relied on cell towers, wifi access and gps and could only give an approximate location, which could very well be the case in this situation because of the remoteness of the area.

BTW, as is often the case, the headline of the story is misleading. It is unclear whether Apple has been able to update the software with this capability. Another wrinkle is whether or not there is infrastructure in place to identify a location.

iPhones will share your exact location with 911

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Why would the Family not have been shown the photos of BT that was taken in the desert the day she went missing?

 

[PommyMommy]

Apologies for asking as no doubt this was clarified days ago. But what facts do we have verified from LE re timings of the calls?

Those are the only details I'm interested in.

Because any other info told to our VI by RT or another relative is just that - info told, second hand and not proven.

I think it's important to be crystal clear to avoid creating perceived fact out of hearsay?

JMO

BBM I couldn't agree more. So, to be crystal clear...

Dispatch Call Log – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
7/12/2019 3:26:24 PM CR CR191930018 CRR1900230 MISPER NAT 936** HIDDEN HILLS RD, KEL

 

[k-mac]

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'

that statement makes me forever uncomfortable for totally unrelated case.
chris watts porch statement anyone....

I know o/t but these cases hit us hard and we shall remember them x
#shinelikeshanann

 

[HongKongPhooey]

BBM I couldn't agree more. So, to be crystal clear...

Dispatch Call Log – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
7/12/2019 3:26:24 PM CR CR191930018 CRR1900230 MISPER NAT 936** HIDDEN HILLS RD, KEL

Perfect thanks

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I think I understand where this could lead. And that you appear to be on the right track. There is something hiding in all this picture taking. IMO as always.



We know he made that call. Do they really know exactly from where?



Spot on as always. Thank you for your clarity.

Ah thanks

 

[dbdb11]

that statement makes me forever uncomfortable for totally unrelated case.
chris watts porch statement anyone....

I know o/t but these cases hit us hard and we shall remember them x
#shinelikeshanann

for fear of TOS violations, i won't say more than... weren't shannon and husband part of murky mlm world?

not trying to connect imaginary dots, just sayin...

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Shadows

A shadow is formed where light is 'missing'.

A dark shadow (umbra) is formed where no light falls and a light shadow (penumbra) is formed where some light falls, but some is blocked.

If the light source is very tiny and concentrated in one place (a point source) only a sharp shadow is formed - an umbra.

If the light source is broader light from the top of the source causes a lower shadow than that from the top.

You therefore get partial shadow or penumbra as well as umbra.

Cyberphysics - Shadows

 

[PommyMommy]

for fear of TOS violations, i won't say more than... weren't shannon and husband part of murky mlm world?

not trying to connect imaginary dots, just sayin...

Nothing murky about it as far as I know. Shanann and he-who-shall-not-be-named sold Le-Vel. Shanann was quite successful at it.

https://le-vel.com/Products/THRIVE

MOO

 

[dbdb11]

<modsnip>

can we steer this discussion towards where Barbara could be? if her light was extinguished on July 12, and abduction/kidnapping/accomplices did not come into play, there is a large, though limited range the dually could have reached in the time between the kennel and the 3pm dispatch call. even smaller range between the last photo of barb near kelbaker/hidden hills and the dispatch call.

on the otherhand, if RT is telling partial truths and she was abducted, Las Vegas? We have determined the mojave is a bit of a body dump, are there perhaps small towns within a thirty minute radius of kelbaker/hidden hill? how about an hour/2 hour/3 hour radius? anyone know anything about gangs or groups who specialise in kidnapping/trafficking of ppl? any of those gangs active in these areas?

 

[dbdb11]

Nothing murky about it as far as I know. Shanann and he-who-shall-not-be-named sold Le-Vel. Shanann was quite successful at it.

https://le-vel.com/Products/THRIVE

MOO

murky would be moo. anything mlm gives me goosebumps at this point

 

[Auntie Cipation]

What if...

What if RT and BT had stopped at that same pullout/trail for a hike not too long ago -- say, within the last few months? A nice walk was had, and photos were taken.

If those photos showed BT in a bikini top, it might actually make more sense that in one of the warm days of spring, a desert fan like her might relish getting some sun on her skin, without the worries that accompany a 100+ degree day.

Then what if, on July 12, after they left home & the neighbor's camera, the kennel, etc, they headed out somewhere within a few hours driving time of their home.

Then what if something happened to BT at that unknown location?

Then what if the RV, without BT, went to the Kelbaker location and parked and LE was called and the recent photos were shown and told they were of that day. This probably requires alteration of metadata, unless they were Polaroids or other old-school photos?

A stretch, but I'm looking for ways that "I last saw her at noon" could be a true statement combined with LE call at 3:26.

Also entirely possible that, at Kelbaker location, he last saw her at noon and then searched for 3 hours, without realizing how much time went by, before calling LE?

 

[Reasonable & Just]

More searches, with a broader radius once it is safe for searchers to go back out. Check out as many of those "caves" mentioned by RT as possible. Bless you, our beautiful sun-goddess Barbara.

 

[happyday]

What if...

What if RT and BT had stopped at that same pullout/trail for a hike not too long ago -- say, within the last few months? A nice walk was had, and photos were taken.

If those photos showed BT in a bikini top, it might actually make more sense that in one of the warm days of spring, a desert fan like her might relish getting some sun on her skin, without the worries that accompany a 100+ degree day.

Then what if, on July 12, after they left home & the neighbor's camera, the kennel, etc, they headed out somewhere within a few hours driving time of their home.

Then what if something happened to BT at that unknown location?

Then what if the RV, without BT, went to the Kelbaker location and parked and LE was called and the recent photos were shown and told they were of that day. This probably requires alteration of metadata, unless they were Polaroids or other old-school photos?

A stretch, but I'm looking for ways that "I last saw her at noon" could be a true statement combined with LE call at 3:26.

Also entirely possible that, at Kelbaker location, he last saw her at noon and then searched for 3 hours, without realizing how much time went by, before calling LE?

This is what I wonder too. But that unknown location could be ANYWHERE.

 

[cazador]

<modsnip>
can we steer this discussion towards where Barbara could be? if her light was extinguished on July 12, and abduction/kidnapping/accomplices did not come into play, there is a large, though limited range the dually could have reached in the time between the kennel and the 3pm dispatch call. even smaller range between the last photo of barb near kelbaker/hidden hills and the dispatch call.

on the otherhand, if RT is telling partial truths and she was abducted, Las Vegas? We have determined the mojave is a bit of a body dump, are there perhaps small towns within a thirty minute radius of kelbaker/hidden hill? how about an hour/2 hour/3 hour radius? anyone know anything about gangs or groups who specialise in kidnapping/trafficking of ppl? any of those gangs active in these areas?

@dbdb11
9 days of searching by trained SAR .. That could be a huge search area
I would like to see you ask detectives as concerned family member to see what areas were searched. They have a grid map. Your purpose is to search the area again..
Take pictures of the map. Do not post them online. Share them in private.

No gangs or groups that I know of.. You never know..

Only a missing man who attempted to kidnap a wife 3 hours away from where Barbara disappears at the same time. That man was never identified and your detective should call that detective and compare notes.
'I'm going to use this knife': Hiker says she got lost in Calif. wilderness fleeing attacker

When I first posted in this case I posted where I think RT parked as he said she BT had to cross the hiway..
Where the SAR group parked their unit was further down the road.

The most common is she fell for some reason and is right there someplace.
She needs to be found.