CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[rosesfromangels]

@dbdb11
'I'm going to use this knife': Hiker says she got lost in Calif. wilderness fleeing attacker
The most common is she fell for some reason and is right there someplace..

Respectfully snipped for commentary focus.
YES. I agree the searchers simply have not found her, despite the efforts.
They need to keep searching.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Stripehaven]

What if...

What if RT and BT had stopped at that same pullout/trail for a hike not too long ago -- say, within the last few months? A nice walk was had, and photos were taken.

If those photos showed BT in a bikini top, it might actually make more sense that in one of the warm days of spring, a desert fan like her might relish getting some sun on her skin, without the worries that accompany a 100+ degree day.

Then what if, on July 12, after they left home & the neighbor's camera, the kennel, etc, they headed out somewhere within a few hours driving time of their home.

Then what if something happened to BT at that unknown location?

Then what if the RV, without BT, went to the Kelbaker location and parked and LE was called and the recent photos were shown and told they were of that day. This probably requires alteration of metadata, unless they were Polaroids or other old-school photos?

A stretch, but I'm looking for ways that "I last saw her at noon" could be a true statement combined with LE call at 3:26.

[snip]

This is very similar to my current imaginings, except I imagine it all could have happened in one day. IMO JMO etc etc That would be less complicated in terms of having the “correct” time stamp on the photo. But your suggestion certainly could work. IMO. I wonder if neighbors recall seeing the rig come and go during the weeks prior to July 12.

Does anyone know how much time and effort it would take to uncouple and re-couple a fifth-wheel like RT’s from a pickup?

 

[distracted]

@dbdb11
9 days of searching by trained SAR .. That could be a huge search area
I would like to see you ask detectives as concerned family member to see what areas were searched. They have a grid map. Your purpose is to search the area again..
Take pictures of the map. Do not post them online. Share them in private.

No gangs or groups that I know of.. You never know..

Only a missing man who attempted to kidnap a wife 3 hours away from where Barbara disappears at the same time. That man was never identified and your detective should call that detective and compare notes.
'I'm going to use this knife': Hiker says she got lost in Calif. wilderness fleeing attacker

When I first posted in this case I posted where I think RT parked as he said she BT had to cross the hiway..
Where the SAR group parked their unit was further down the road.

The most common is she fell for some reason and is right there someplace.
She needs to be found.

Goodness, that incident occurred on the same day. And as CA goes, not that far apart.

 

[DancingMuse]

Respectfully snipped.
They need to keep searching.
Amateur opinion and speculation

BBM, agreeing with you Rosefromangels.

@dbdb11,

Thank you so much for your patience with our “Websleuths thinking process”. Your comments, suggestions and answers to our questions have been amazing. The emotional turmoil from having a missing relative must be staggering. I am praying for you and your family, and still praying for BT’s safe return, while remaining realistic. Much gratitude to you for spending the time, effort and thought with us, when you obviously have heavy concerns on your plate.

My questions below refer to the lower photograph you posted of your stunning aunt. See bottom jpg-image barbset#5 from your post.

My sole purpose is:

... to determine how athletic the Thomas’ were. How strong were they? I’m interested in ascertaining “What were they willing to attempt to get a great photograph?” Maybe LE’s (or a private investigative firm) could widen their perimeter if you, or other family members insist on searching again out in the desert? Maybe BT walked WAY FURTHER than originally thought, because she had so much stamina?​

Questions about the Bottom photo: (You may not have ever been told HOW the photo was taken, which is fine and you wouldn’t know the answers to these inquiries. )

a) Year of the photo? (You stated all pics were 2002 onward. ) Where? Desert? Same Desert? Beach?

b) Did RT and BT own a drone? (If pic is not drone-produced, did RT most likely climb atop a rocky outcrop? Did RT or BT regularly climb rocky outcrops to get an exciting photo? )

c) Was this pic taken from a Look-out-Tower, of sorts? (such as, a platform for Fire Dept. ? for Hunters?)

d) Would RT have likely lugged a heavy Tripod up onto a higher elevation to take a great picture like this?

e) The photo might be on the older end (circa 2002) because they don’t have their RV yet? On trips when they had to pitch a tent and prepare food outside, how far might Barbara hike?​

Thanks in advance if you know any of the above, or any circumstances surrounding the LOWER image of the two photos below.


For what happened on that day (July 2019) when BT went missing, I’m still leading leaning towards this:

BT was feeling adventuresome and beneficent. She wanted to go back to the RV to start preparing Lunch for them. But she told RT she was returning for another reason, so as to have a little extra time to prepare his favorite “camping meal” for him, and surprise him. On the way back, BT became distracted, and made a wrong turn, and then another. Hiking well away from the RV, after about 15 minutes, BT kept increasing her speed, thinking, its “just around the next bend”. Becoming more dis-oriented, and therefore, judging distances and times worse and worse, she wandered between 2 to 4 miles away from her intended destination, and sadly succumbed to the elements.

Purely MOO type of thoughts; Based on a variety of Life Experiences, some of which resulted in Near-Death hiking accidents.
ETA: clarity

 

[debbiegarcia36]

If someone snatched her, why would the only motive be robbery? I just want to note for the record that older women can be victims of sexual crimes as well.

Its so easy to be misunderstood when writing a text or post. My point is - how could BT disappear so quickly based on the timeline RT provided. Pure speculation.....someone could have been parked next to the RV when BT approached and took her but IMO its a long shot. I am just having a hard time deducing BT was abducted for ANY reason in a 5-10 minute window.

 

[LAhiker]

Snipped and bolded by me for focus:

@dbdb11


No gangs or groups that I know of.. You never know..

Only a missing man who attempted to kidnap a wife 3 hours away from where Barbara disappears at the same time. That man was never identified and your detective should call that detective and compare notes.
'I'm going to use this knife': Hiker says she got lost in Calif. wilderness fleeing attacker

When I first posted in this case I posted where I think RT parked as he said she BT had to cross the hiway..
Where the SAR group parked their unit was further down the road.

The most common is she fell for some reason and is right there someplace.
She needs to be found.

Goodness, that incident occurred on the same day. And as CA goes, not that far apart.

As far as I know, Sheryl Powell was near Grandview Campground on White Mountain Rd in Bishop when she said a knife-wielding man attacked her, causing her to run into the wilderness. Her husband called 911 at 2pm and said he'd been searching for her for a while -- maybe an hour.

That same day, RT reported BT missing; the search area was located at the intersection of Kelbaker Rd and Hidden Hill Road, and it looks like that was where he and BT pulled over for their walk. While reports vary as to when he found her missing, it seems like that must've been between around noon and 3:26 pm when he called 911. By his accounts, it was between noon and ~2 or 2:30.

According to Google maps, the shortest route between those two points takes around 4 3/4 hours. So even if Sheryl Powell was missed at 1pm and BT was first missed at 3:30pm (though BT was probably missed sooner), it seems physically impossible for the same perpetrator to be involved. JMO

 

[cherrymeg]

I keep thinking there will be news when I check back on here.

 

[distracted]

Snipped and bolded by me for focus:




As far as I know, Sheryl Powell was near Grandview Campground on White Mountain Rd in Bishop when she said a knife-wielding man attacked her, causing her to run into the wilderness. Her husband called 911 at 2pm and said he'd been searching for her for a while -- maybe an hour.

That same day, RT reported BT missing; the search area was located at the intersection of Kelbaker Rd and Hidden Hill Road, and it looks like that was where he and BT pulled over for their walk. While reports vary as to when he found her missing, it seems like that must've been between around noon and 3:26 pm when he called 911. By his accounts, it was between noon and ~2 or 2:30.

According to Google maps, the shortest route between those two points takes around 4 3/4 hours. So even if Sheryl Powell was missed at 1pm and BT was first missed at 3:30pm (though BT was probably missed sooner), it seems physically impossible for the same perpetrator to be involved. JMO

Absolutely too far but CA is a huge state so this is not far for us locals. And there are major roads connecting. I live in the Central Valley and can be in Mammoth in four hours, passing through the Mojave.

My surprise was really that two women went missing on the same day in remote areas within a few hours' drive. I mean, what are the odds?

 

[PommyMommy]

This is very similar to my current imaginings, except I imagine it all could have happened in one day. IMO JMO etc etc That would be less complicated in terms of having the “correct” time stamp on the photo. But your suggestion certainly could work. IMO. I wonder if neighbors recall seeing the rig come and go during the weeks prior to July 12.

Does anyone know how much time and effort it would take to uncouple and re-couple a fifth-wheel like RT’s from a pickup?

 

[LAhiker]

Absolutely too far but CA is a huge state so this is not far for us locals. And there are major roads connecting. I live in the Central Valley and can be in Mammoth in four hours, passing through the Mojave.

My surprise was really that two women went missing on the same day in remote areas within a few hours' drive. I mean, what are the odds?

While we Californians may not regard it as far, if the distance is too great for the incidents to be related, then it must just be an unfortunate coincidence.

(Or are you saying that you could get from one point to the other in 2 1/2 to 3 hours? Note that I tried to choose the earliest time Sheryl Powell might've been missed and the latest time that BT might've been missed, and I still came up with only 2 1/2 hours.)

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

BBM, agreeing with you Rosefromangels.

@dbdb11,

Thank you so much for your patience with our “Websleuths thinking process”. Your comments, suggestions and answers to our questions have been amazing. The emotional turmoil from having a missing relative must be staggering. I am praying for you and your family, and still praying for BT’s safe return, while remaining realistic. Much gratitude to you for spending the time, effort and thought with us, when you obviously have heavy concerns on your plate.

My questions below refer to the lower photograph you posted of your stunning aunt. See bottom jpg-image barbset#5 from your post.

My sole purpose is:

... to determine how athletic the Thomas’ were. How strong were they? I’m interested in ascertaining “What were they willing to attempt to get a great photograph?” Maybe LE’s (or a private investigative firm) could widen their perimeter if you, or other family members insist on searching again out in the desert? Maybe BT walked WAY FURTHER than originally thought, because she had so much stamina?​

Questions about the Bottom photo: (You may not have ever been told HOW the photo was taken, which is fine and you wouldn’t know the answers to these inquiries. )

a) Year of the photo? (You stated all pics were 2002 onward. ) Where? Desert? Same Desert? Beach?

b) Did RT and BT own a drone? (If pic is not drone-produced, did RT most likely climb atop a rocky outcrop? Did RT or BT regularly climb rocky outcrops to get an exciting photo? )

c) Was this pic taken from a Look-out-Tower, of sorts? (such as, a platform for Fire Dept. ? for Hunters?)

d) Would RT have likely lugged a heavy Tripod up onto a higher elevation to take a great picture like this?

e) The photo might be on the older end (circa 2002) because they don’t have their RV yet? On trips when they had to pitch a tent and prepare food outside, how far might Barbara hike?​

Thanks in advance if you know any of the above, or any circumstances surrounding the LOWER image of the two photos below.
View attachment 199006

For what happened on that day (July 2019) when BT went missing, I’m still leading leaning towards this:

BT was feeling adventuresome and beneficent. She wanted to go back to the RV to start preparing Lunch for them. But she told RT she was returning for another reason, so as to have a little extra time to prepare his favorite “camping meal” for him, and surprise him. On the way back, BT became distracted, and made a wrong turn, and then another. Hiking well away from the RV, after about 15 minutes, BT kept increasing her speed, thinking, its “just around the next bend”. Becoming more dis-oriented, and therefore, judging distances and times worse and worse, she wandered between 2 to 4 miles away from her intended destination, and sadly succumbed to the elements.

Purely MOO type of thoughts; Based on a variety of Life Experiences, some of which resulted in Near-Death hiking accidents.
ETA: clarity

This is precisely what I believe happened, and Barb is out there waiting to be found and brought home to rest.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[distracted]

<modsnip>
can we steer this discussion towards where Barbara could be? if her light was extinguished on July 12, and abduction/kidnapping/accomplices did not come into play, there is a large, though limited range the dually could have reached in the time between the kennel and the 3pm dispatch call. even smaller range between the last photo of barb near kelbaker/hidden hills and the dispatch call.

on the otherhand, if RT is telling partial truths and she was abducted, Las Vegas? We have determined the mojave is a bit of a body dump, are there perhaps small towns within a thirty minute radius of kelbaker/hidden hill? how about an hour/2 hour/3 hour radius? anyone know anything about gangs or groups who specialise in kidnapping/trafficking of ppl? any of those gangs active in these areas?

It's pretty desolate in that area, to be honest. Barstow, the closest town, is an hour away. And there's a lot of secluded area between I-40 and I-15 since Kelbaker stretches between the two so not much need to leave the desert unless you were going to Vegas. From the spot she went missing, there isn't a direct path to Vegas so it could take a couple hours at least.

 

[distracted]

While we Californians may not regard it as far, if the distance is too great for the incidents to be related, then it must just be an unfortunate coincidence.

(Or are you saying that you could get from one point to the other in 2 1/2 to 3 hours? Note that I tried to choose the earliest time Sheryl Powell might've been missed and the latest time that BT might've been missed, and I still came up with only 2 1/2 hours.)

JMO

No, I think there's too much overlap in the timing for it to be the same person.

 

[proctorelites]

I'm sure this was answered but please refresh my memory.

• Was Barbara retired?
• If so, what was her line of work prior to retirement?
• In prior years when she visited Hong Kong did she express any concerns about leaving her husband & dog in the U.S.?
• What were her hobbies outside of hiking?
  
• All the photography Barb must be the focal point in, were these photos submitted anywhere or on social media?

 

[Tillicum]

I keep thinking there will be news when I check back on here.

I keep hoping for that but if I'm to be honest, it feels like we're all chewing on an old piece of gum that lost all of it's flavor long ago.

We're making the effort but not producing much IMO. I think it says a lot for Barbara that we've all grown to love and admire her in such a short time and we simply can't give up. Flavor or no flavor.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Heatstroke?

You can only stagger off so far in the throes of heatstroke. Vomiting, convulsions, muscle cramps, etc. are common. While Barbara appears to have been at least somewhat acclimated to the desert, she wasn't in possession of water. Was she taking in more fluid than she was losing? With that outside temperature it won't take long to overheat without adequate water, and sufficient protection from the elements.

Would SAR canines have missed her curled/rolled under vegetation? Would they have alerted on vomit?

All JMO, MOO, IM Old McDonald.

This is all I can think of. And this scenario doesn't allow her to wander far.

 

[MassGuy]

Heatstroke?

You can only stagger off so far in the throes of heatstroke. Vomiting, convulsions, muscle cramps, etc. are common. While Barbara appears to have been at least somewhat acclimated to the desert, she wasn't in possession of water. Was she taking in more fluid than she was losing? With that outside temperature it won't take long to overheat without adequate water, and sufficient protection from the elements.

Would SAR canines have missed her curled/rolled under vegetation? Would they have alerted on vomit?

All JMO, MOO, IM Old McDonald.

This is all I can think of. And this scenario doesn't allow her to wander far.

And that’s precisely the issue.

Say she became disoriented and wandered away from the RV.

It’s not like she could have traveled a tremendous distance.

People don’t get heat stroke, and deliriously wander for days.

I don’t think search teams missed her.

 

[10ofRods]

Goodness, that incident occurred on the same day. And as CA goes, not that far apart.

Well...as California goes, fairly far apart. Far enough apart that the same man cannot be responsible for both disappearances. Sadly, the other disappearance got more media coverage, IMO.

314 miles and 5 hours of driving. You can find crimes of a similar nature way closer to Kelbaker Road. Just looking at the SBCS missing persons list (Barbara is not on it yet) gives a person pause (especially the couple who both went missing about 15 miles from where Barbara did - he was found dead of heat exhaustion...):

Search Results for “Missing Person” – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department

(Look for the Amboy - Missing Person summary). Couple went missing, extensive search, his body was found, she is still not found).

Amboy is a tiny town (think like the movie "Bagdad Cafe" which is now in a larger town called Newberry Springs, still very small). It is the closest town to where Barbara went missing.

IOW, people do go missing out there, extensive searches are conducted and people known to be there (like Susan Schmeier) are still not found.

 

[CSIDreamer]

And that’s precisely the issue.

Say she became disoriented and wandered away from the RV.

It’s not like she could have traveled a tremendous distance.

People don’t get heat stroke, and deliriously wander for days.

I don’t think search teams missed her.

Me neither.

 

[Tillicum]

@10ofRods how much longer in your opinion before temps will be safe for further searches?