Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #16 *ARREST*

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Newthoughts said:
I still don't understand the failure to place his prints and DNA onto police records statement. This is ignorance on my part but - clearly they kept those records from his prior offences otherwise they couldn't have charged him with those crimes.

Clearly he'd never been arrested so prints and DNA wouldn't lead to him initially.

But surely prints and DNA should / must go onto some kind of database so that when someone is arrested or the same evidence appears in a different crime scene - it would flag it up?

In his case couldn't that have meant something would have come up when DNA and prints from his second and subsequent offences were found, at least alerting LE to the fact they had a serial offender even if they didn't know who it was.

Otherwise what is the point of a DNA database of evidence?
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I don't quite follow your problem with this.

The police may have had his prints and DNA on file in connection with the earlier offences, but they were unidentified.

They were only able to match them to PR after he was arrested in connection with the Libby case, presumably following the CCTV evidence.

Some of the offences for which he has now been jailed may only have been reported after his arrest, when the victims recognised his face from the media reports.
 
CoverMeCagney said:
Euuwww. I agree, he started off just like PR did. Question is whether PR would have followed the same path of rape and murder, that night or ever?
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On that note It would be very intetesting to see what kind of psychological profiling has been done in missing Libbys case. But I guess it wont be very telling unless they know place/manner of death.
 
Cherwell said:
I don't quite follow your problem with this.

The police may have had his prints and DNA on file in connection with the earlier offences, but they were unidentified.

They were only able to match them to PR after he was arrested in connection with the Libby case, presumably following the CCTV evidence.

Some of the offences for which he has now been jailed may only have been reported after his arrest, when the victims recognised his face from the media reports.
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My confusion is simple. It arises from the fact that the press reports suggest he was allowed to continue offending (I prefer the word able rather than allowed) because DNA and prints were not put on police records. Police then saying that that had to join dots which took time.


It doesn't matter that he wasn't known to the police and they didn't have his DNA.

It doesn't matter that they couldn't match his DNA to him at that point.

What matters is the same DNA cropped up in several similar reported offences - as pointed out in court.

Yet the prosecution suggest no links were made.

Isn't the point of a database to flag up the same prints or DNA being found at several crime scenes occurring at different times? Shouldn't they flag up that fact? The police wouldn't have to search it would be there for them. Same person that did this also committed an offence two months ago and three years ago and whatever.

I'm assuming the prosection are suggesting that didn't happen because records weren't uploaded? Suggesting individual officers were working on individual cases unaware the same DNA had appeared before - indicating a serial offender? That DNA wasn't compared until later?

If that wasn't the case what were the prosection referring to

What else could they have meant?
 
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Newthoughts said:
My confusion is simple. It arises from the fact that the press reports suggest he was allowed to continue offending (I prefer the word able rather than allowed) because DNA and prints were not put on police records. Police then saying that that had to join dots which took time.


It doesn't matter that he wasn't known to the police and they didn't have his DNA.

It doesn't matter that they couldn't match his DNA to him at that point.

What matters is the same DNA cropped up in several similar reported offences - as pointed out in court.

Yet the prosecution suggest no links were made.

Isn't the point of a database to flag up the same prints or DNA being found at several crime scenes occurring at different times? Shouldn't they flag up that fact? The police wouldn't have to search it would be there for them. Same person that did this also committed an offence two months ago and three years ago and whatever.

I'm assuming the prosection are suggesting that didn't happen because records weren't uploaded? Suggesting individual officers were working on individual cases unaware the same DNA had appeared before - indicating a serial offender? That DNA wasn't compared until later?

If that wasn't the case what were the prosection referring to

What else could they have meant?
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I agree with you.

They couldn't link the samples to him, but they could link them together and know that all of these crimes are being committed by the same person. Living in Hull, I know for sure that this link was never made public if they did know about it. No awareness spread that an individual like this was active. You'd think it was in the best interests of the public to know? So yeah, I don't think they made the link themselves at all.
 
CoverMeCagney said:
I reckon the park bench is part of his story, and after he told them he (or they) was there they went down pronto and tested it. In fact, as that testing was done quickly and under cover of darkness, is it possible PR actually took them to it?

In all honestly, everything he says happened up until the moment of her disappearance is probably nicely backed up by forensics and in some ways is a moot point. e.g. (and imo):

Yes, the CCTV showed her willingly getting into his car
Yes, there is evidence she was in the passenger seat, alive
Yes, there is evidence of sexual activity on the bench
No, she was not in his car deceased
No, she was never in his car boot or his house

Aside from the police saying homicide I don't honestly think I could (as a juror) convict him of anything. I'm still pretty certain he knows more and it would be interesting to know just how much he has told the police about that night. My gut says whatever evidence they have matches his version of events.
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I agree with all of this.
He’s quite clever I think and is playing a long game.
I’m not convinced he actually laid his hands in LS but I’m more on board with him being the cause of her death in one way or another.
 
DiploRed said:
I agree with you.

They couldn't link the samples to him, but they could link them together and know that all of these crimes are being committed by the same person. Living in Hull, I know for sure that this link was never made public if they did know about it. No awareness spread that an individual like this was active. You'd think it was in the best interests of the public to know? So yeah, I don't think they made the link themselves at all.
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Do we know how many of his offences were actually reported to the police before his face was in the media?
 
Cherwell said:
Do we know how many of his offences were actually reported to the police before his face was in the media?
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No, I don't think so. And you've reminded me of something I meant to post after details were revealed in court - I wonder if anyone else will come forward about incidents involving a man in a Scream mask?
 
Newthoughts said:
My confusion is simple. It arises from the fact that the press reports suggest he was allowed to continue offending (I prefer the word able rather than allowed) because DNA and prints were not put on police records. Police then saying that that had to join dots which took time.


It doesn't matter that he wasn't known to the police and they didn't have his DNA.

It doesn't matter that they couldn't match his DNA to him at that point.

What matters is the same DNA cropped up in several similar reported offences - as pointed out in court.

Yet the prosecution suggest no links were made.

Isn't the point of a database to flag up the same prints or DNA being found at several crime scenes occurring at different times? Shouldn't they flag up that fact? The police wouldn't have to search it would be there for them. Same person that did this also committed an offence two months ago and three years ago and whatever.

I'm assuming the prosection are suggesting that didn't happen because records weren't uploaded? Suggesting individual officers were working on individual cases unaware the same DNA had appeared before - indicating a serial offender? That DNA wasn't compared until later?

If that wasn't the case what were the prosection referring to

What else could they have meant?
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I have read that as two separate things from the court
They commented that he could go on offending because hed never had need to have his prints taken

And that it took a while to link all the cases because they were varied and not sure if all involved DNA or prints
I'm not sure if it was available for all the voyerism incidents for example
Maybe anything with DNA or prints flagged up straight away other things took longer to link eg the stuff in the boot also
 
Cherwell said:
Do we know how many of his offences were actually reported to the police before his face was in the media?
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The Voyeurism and masturbation crimes he admitted to were ones that seem to have DNA and fingerprint evidence suggesting they were reported fairly quickly and dealt with reasonably quickly. Evidence like that doesn't last for years.

In addition I cannot imagine any student I know not reporting such terrifying crimes.

However having re read the original report it does sound like they meant they couldn't catch him rather than specifically that they couldn't link the crimes. So yes I agree in that respect

But surely DNA they had they could have noted it was a very small area of offending. It could have added extra detail from one crime to others - for example his accent, his build.

As all the offences are close to Newlands Avenue which is teeming with shops, including a Polish shop at the end of his road why not circulate his descriptions?.
 
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motherofdaughters said:
I agree with all of this.
He’s quite clever I think and is playing a long game.
I’m not convinced he actually laid his hands in LS but I’m more on board with him being the cause of her death in one way or another.
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In that respect do you mean he had an accomplice?

I think his bizarre story to his sister is to explain her DNA on him so I think he will have laid his hands on her.

I think much rests on what we know we don't know. Why doesn't spidercam show him parking and leaving his car? Libby's bench is about 30 seconds from spidercam why is he away for as long as he is?

What is the significance of the scream mask? It doesn't appear in any of his known offences
 
Marulinka said:
How Queen’s private pilot became a “sadosexual” serial killer

I hope its okay to post this article here...if not pls delete. After @Armchair_Defective mentioned Russel Williams case I had to look it up and there are certainly similarities..
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Looking back on that, it's interesting to note he escalated from breaking in to steal the underwear - to violent assault in just 2 years. As soon as he started physical assaults it escalated to rape and murder in just a few weeks. Breaking into houses to scare victims and then returning to do it again, reminds me of Pawel the perv!
 
nohopehere said:
This beast would deserve death for what he did. Unfortunately moronic British politicians abolished years ago the capital punishment, and he won't be punished properly... :mad:
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I think we should have a strike system. If every 2nd violent or sexual assault resulted in 25 years ( no parole) we would protect so many people from these offenders. Prisons would be bursting at the seams though o_O
 
nohopehere said:
This beast would deserve death for what he did. Unfortunately moronic British politicians abolished years ago the capital punishment, and he won't be punished properly... :mad:
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Nah, it's a good thing they got rid of the death penalty. It has no place in a civilised society IMO. But they do need to make sentences stronger. Life should always mean life in jail.
 
Newthoughts said:
In that respect do you mean he had an accomplice?

I think his bizarre story to his sister is to explain her DNA on him so I think he will have laid his hands on her.

I think much rests on what we know we don't know. Why doesn't spidercam show him parking and leaving his car? Libby's bench is about 30 seconds from spidercam why is he away for as long as he is?

What is the significance of the scream mask? It doesn't appear in any of his known offences
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I'm interested in what we can learn from this (I just revisited spidercam for first time in a while!)
Personally I think 1 min 40 seconds is about right in terms of getting to her persuading her to take his "help" and getting back to car
But regards spidercam not showing him park and leave.. I presumed that was because they just wanted to show the relevant bits public could help with ? What's your thinking?
 
Armchair_Defective said:
Looking back on that, it's interesting to note he escalated from breaking in to steal the underwear - to violent assault in just 2 years. As soon as he started physical assaults it escalated to rape and murder in just a few weeks. Breaking into houses to scare victims and then returning to do it again, reminds me of Pawel the perv!
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Sarahlou said:
Nah, it's a good thing they got rid of the death penalty. It has no place in a civilised society IMO. But they do need to make sentences stronger. Life should always mean life in jail.
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To me life in prison is just a waste of money.
To me country without capital punishment are not civilised...I can't see anything "civilised" in not properly punish criminals!
Death is the most effective punishment you can imagine. Have you ever seen an executed criminal doing something bad after his execution?
Just my humble opinion of course! :cool:
 
Armchair_Defective said:
I think we should have a strike system. If every 2nd violent or sexual assault resulted in 25 years ( no parole) we would protect so many people from these offenders. Prisons would be bursting at the seams though o_O
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25 years without parole...not a bad idea but if the criminals kill (even if he's a "first timer") he should get death. Nothing less. :mad:
 
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