Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

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I don't think so. I'm still not sure we even know if the woman seen was actually swimming or bathing. Imo

Hmm.. yeah, good point. I wonder if it was even deep enough to swim in, since all the other water source seem to be shallow enough to walk through. I imagine she was just kind of wading, if she exists at all!
 
It occurred to me today that if Nora had been found a few days earlier (and alive), this would have been one of those "overcoming the odds," "rising above expectations" and "miracle!" feelgood stories. That she kept herself alive and was able to travel such a great distance, in difficult terrain in an extreme climate would be a testament to the inner strength and survival instinct that drives people in extreme circumstances to accomplish what was thought to be impossible.

Obviously, this ending was a complete tragedy. But, if it turns out (as the preliminary evidence dictates ) that she did, in fact, travel to the waterfall alone after surviving long days in the jungle, in doesn't change the fact that she did accomplish what others deemed to be impossible. IMO

Oh absolutely!!! This is one of the hangups for me in terms of how her mom described her disabilities at the end. What she was capable of just doesn’t reconcile with what her abilities were described to be.

That said, whether Nora has as many struggles as it sounds like or not, and whether she was dropped off in the jungle or made it there on her own... the fact that she kept herself alive for a week out there all alone for a week, without a serious injury, is quite impressive.
 
I don’t know of a single soul locally that pays one bit of attention to missing persons cases. Whenever I have brought it up in the past.... something I’ve since given up on... they were completely oblivious.
I know, I don’t get it either. I personally find it a bit disheartening.

Yeah, that is my experience as well. I have 2-3 friends who follow true crime or read here or listen to crime podcasts, but most people have no idea about most of these cases. There are several people missing from my county and nobody I know is aware of this. I can be sure that if I was the woman bathing in the river or even if I had just happened to return from Malaysia, not one of my friends would bring this case up to ask if I could be the woman.

Sadly most of my friends are the kind who block out the stuff like this either because it’s very sad, or because they are cynical after hearing story after story all shake out the same.

Many of these cases have the same pattern from the child being reported missing to finding out the child isn’t missing, s/he is dead and thrown away like garbage, and it was mom’s boyfriend or the parents. Or a woman is reported missing and turns out it was the soon to be ex husband or boyfriend. So when people hear a missing kid story they automatically think “hmm, mom’s boyfriend/kid’s parents did it,” and that is the extent of the thought they give it. And 9/10 times they are probably spot on. I can’t just push these stories out of my mind though.
 
https://www.derrydaily.net/2019/08/...eartbroken-for-nora-quoirins-grieving-family/
August 18, 2019
"THE heartbroken mother of Danielle McLaughlin who was murdered in India has said Nora’s grieving relatives will endure their nightmare for the rest of their lives.

Speaking to the Belfast Telegraph, Andrea McLaughlin revealed the most torturous part of her daughter’s death two years ago was trying to deal with the unanswered questions — something she believes the Quoirin family will also face over her death in Malaysia during a family holiday in the Dusun rainforest resort."
........................................................................................................................................
"Referring to the Quoirins’ statement that the results of the post-mortem into Nora’s death gave them “some information”, Mrs McLaughlin urged them to consider getting a second opinion just as she did two years ago in Danielle’s case.

“The family now should get another post-mortem done in the UK or Ireland,” she said.

“I did and I don’t regret it.

“It was one of the best decisions I ever made.

“It took around eight months but it clarified answers for me and it gave me peace of mind.”

She added: “And, if there is a criminal aspect to what happened to Nora, hopefully they’ll get answers to that.”
 
OT & Jmo but it sometimes seems that surviving family members in certain ambiguous cases almost seem to prefer the idea of foul play, over accident, natural,or suicide...which always surprises me. Granted, if murder occurred, one wants to know, but I can never think what comfort/closure (wrong words) would be obtained to find out a death was indeed murder, over what was originally ruled.

Not specifically Nora’s death but some cases when the death was very unlikely to be foul play, the insistence seemed loudest. I have lost five immediate family members in various horrible ways (none murder) but it would never have made it any easier to accept if I had someone to blame. Anyway...just an off-topic observation.
 
There's no schools for "severely disabled" children, only hospitals and care facilities. There is no place in the world for children specifically with Nora's disability because it's so rare. So the family will take whatever they can get. Nora may have needed a lot of help, but as long as she wasn't violent to herself or others any mild-moderate special needs school/class would welcome her.
That isn’t true in the UK at all, there are lots of different types of SEN schools. Each council has a local offer and each child is only placed into a school that can meet their needs (if the council find they can’t cope in mainstream school).
 
Mother of Danielle McLaughlin ‘heartbroken’ for Nora Quoirin’s grieving family
August 18, 2019
"THE heartbroken mother of Danielle McLaughlin who was murdered in India has said Nora’s grieving relatives will endure their nightmare for the rest of their lives.
<RSABBMFF>
.....
"Referring to the Quoirins’ statement that the results of the post-mortem into Nora’s death gave them “some information”, Mrs McLaughlin urged them to consider getting a second opinion just as she did two years ago in Danielle’s case.

“The family now should get another post-mortem done in the UK or Ireland,” she said.

“I did and I don’t regret it.

“It was one of the best decisions I ever made.

“It took around eight months but it clarified answers for me and it gave me peace of mind.”

She added: “And, if there is a criminal aspect to what happened to Nora, hopefully they’ll get answers to that.”

RBBM

I'm not surprised at all. I think we suspected another postmortem might be done, as the family still has many questions.
 
I don't think we even know if she was able to swim.
She may have spent time in a pool as part of her therapy, but I doubt she was a strong swimmer, if she could swim independently at all.
I agree. And the sighting was on Sunday 7pm.
A direct flight from London arrives at KL at 5pm...... I posted this earlier.
Other *non direct* flights from London arrive later than 7pm ....
 
What does this mean.... that the waterfalls were mixed up on purpose.
And to try and prove Nora got there on her own..... Who would do that and why? I guess I’m a bit confused.
It was my impression that a poster here had mixed up two waterfalls intentionally, referring to a deep ravine and also placing a map. But in the meantime the poster has explained that he mixed them up by mistake , not intentionally.
 
OT & Jmo but it sometimes seems that surviving family members in certain ambiguous cases almost seem to prefer the idea of foul play, over accident, natural,or suicide...which always surprises me. Granted, if murder occurred, one wants to know, but I can never think what comfort/closure (wrong words) would be obtained to find out a death was indeed murder, over what was originally ruled.

Not specifically Nora’s death but some cases when the death was very unlikely to be foul play, the insistence seemed loudest. I have lost five immediate family members in various horrible ways (none murder) but it would never have made it any easier to accept if I had someone to blame. Anyway...just an off-topic observation.

I think it's because some people do find it easier when there is someone to blame. Easier to accept than it just being "one of those things". Some people have a great deal of trouble accepting the randomness of the good and bad things that can happen in the universe. I think sometimes too people have an idea of a person in their mind and when that person does something that contradicts that idea, you just can't believe it. The cognitive dissonance is too much. I think of that in a lot of suicide cases: to the family's mind they can't fathom it because the person never told them they were depressed or suicidal. They smiled/laughed/had so much to live for. It breaches that mental concept of who that person was too much when the loved one commits suicide. Combine that with grief and you get a refusal to accept the truth.

With Nora it's hard to say because have we yet got a truly clear, unambiguous, objective description of her abilities? But it does make me think of how small missing children are often discovered at a very great distance further than anybody thought they could have gotten in a given amount of time.
 
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I think some of my personal confusion in the beginning came from interpreting what the family was saying about Nora's abilities (which may have come from extended family and I understand the parents have now distanced themselves from these statements). At first, I thought she just had learning delays, so the insistence that it was a kidnapping seemed odd. Then, it seemed like the family was saying that her condition was such that she was all but physically unable to have left the room and maneuvered down the stairs on her own, so abduction just about had to be the only option. But, abduction from a room with numerous other people planned within a few hours of their arrival? That seemed so odd. Stranger abduction is pretty rare and in a foreign location like this and invovling foreigh nations, it seems even less likely, so the idea that it was all planned within hours of their arrival and carried out by some abductor bold enough to break into their room or somehow lure her out without alerting anyone else just defies belief. It isn't impossible, but it certainly doesn't seem likely.

However, now, it seems like it was more that they were saying that it wasn't physically impossible for her to have left on her own, just completely out of character, which I can understand in their minds made it seem almost impossible. After all, they wouldn't put her in a second story bedroom, with the bathroom and another bed option on the first floor, if she was truly physically incapable of leaving the room on her own. They probably wouldn't have chosen this vacation spot if she was so severely physically limited. They couldn't have been worried that if they put her on the first floor she would leave b/c they obviously never thought that was a serious concern since it would be so out of character. So I really think a lot of my initial confusion was because I accepted the idea that she was far more physically limited than she may actually have been, making abduction almost the only possible scenario, when really, the parents were maybe saying it wasn't physically impossible, just so wildly out of character for her that the didn't believe it was possible. When I take the physical impossibility away, by far the most likely scenario is that she left on her own for a hundred possible reasons that we will never know and got tragically lost in an unfamiliar place.
..., and the family didn’t hear a squeak when she left with the other person(s)?

I think after #5 sets of forum for this case, we are still going on and on in circles!
 
But for me it comes back to WHY? Why would someone steal what is apparently a significantly disabled teenager? How’d they get her out of that tiny house? She’s bigger than I am. (Not that she is large, I just stopped growing at like 10, but I suspect someone would struggle to carry me out in that house) With no evidence of abuse, what was the point of taking her? Just to hang out?

I have a few theories but none seem very likely. Every single possible scenario about how she went missing and how she got to the waterfall don't seem likely to me. Obviously one of them happened though! Probably the most baffling case I've followed on here.

I still can't get that out of my brain what the shaman said though. That someone took her to be their 'daughter' as she had special needs. Seemed such a strange thing to say.
 
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OT & Jmo but it sometimes seems that surviving family members in certain ambiguous cases almost seem to prefer the idea of foul play, over accident, natural,or suicide...which always surprises me. Granted, if murder occurred, one wants to know, but I can never think what comfort/closure (wrong words) would be obtained to find out a death was indeed murder, over what was originally ruled.

Not specifically Nora’s death but some cases when the death was very unlikely to be foul play, the insistence seemed loudest. I have lost five immediate family members in various horrible ways (none murder) but it would never have made it any easier to accept if I had someone to blame. Anyway...just an off-topic observation.

I can honestly say I’ve never ever heard of someone say anything like that or come anywhere near to that way of thinking.

“I so wish my child hadn’t got lost and was murdered instead” ...
 
I’ve lost track of the location the “white woman” was seen in the river. Was it near the resort or near where Nóra was eventually found?
So I am getting the dates confused. This report is from 7p.m. the evening of the first day she was missing. So she was discovered missing early that day by her parents. Why would police dismiss this? Did they actually identify who that person was?
 
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Oh absolutely!!! This is one of the hangups for me in terms of how her mom described her disabilities at the end. What she was capable of just doesn’t reconcile with what her abilities were described to be.

That said, whether Nora has as many struggles as it sounds like or not, and whether she was dropped off in the jungle or made it there on her own... the fact that she kept herself alive for a week out there all alone for a week, without a serious injury, is quite impressive.
Quite impressive or quite incredible. As in, not credible. IMO
 
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