Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[sprucetip]

BTW, random question I thought of. Do you guys think the York Landing sighting was a deliberately false lead that the RCMP itself orchestrated, in case Kam and Bryer had access to a radio or something, in order to make them think the search effort wasn't as focused on Gillam so that they might slip up and be caught? Or am I reading into it too much?

Interesting thought but that would mean putting the reputation of the Bear Clan in jeopardy. I actually think it might have been a couple local kids messing with everyone. Maybe they didn’t realize the seriousness of it, who knows.

 

[CinNC]

Wasn't there an early article stating that the two had left PA with plenty of cash? I'm paraphrasing and don't remember the exact wording, but the implication was there in several articles.

AS was generous with BS, and he may have done so out of love or to try and assuage his own guilt for not being there for B - or perhaps both. So he may have coughed up some cash. And perhaps K's family gave him some cash, too.

But my point here is that the fact that they left town with plenty of cash was known by someone close to the two. Who knew this, and how? (rhetorical question). It seems that it is the kind of info that the families would be privy to since they likely contributed, at the very least.

AS could very well have provided BS with cash on an ongoing basis. KM's family may have done the same. Both families could have funded at least part of their "trip". If either or both were getting cash from their families they could easily have pooled their resources to purchase a gun or guns; legally or otherwise.

I'm waiting patiently for the investigative results to be released.

 

[cartman]

BTW, random question I thought of. Do you guys think the York Landing sighting was a deliberately false lead that the RCMP itself orchestrated, in case Kam and Bryer had access to a radio or something, in order to make them think the search effort wasn't as focused on Gillam so that they might slip up and be caught? Or am I reading into it too much?

I like how @Moriarty phrased their thoughts on this.

Has it been determined that the suicides were committed with rifles, and not handguns? If so, seems I missed that detail.

I posted a link to the CTV National News broadcast that aired a report done by Jill Macyshon. In the segment she said BS and KM were found with two firearms believed to be rifles.
That has been the only time I’ve heard reference to the types of guns.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Wasn't there an early article stating that the two had left PA with plenty of cash? I'm paraphrasing and don't remember the exact wording, but the implication was there in several articles.

AS was generous with BS, and he may have done so out of love or to try and assuage his own guilt for not being there for B - or perhaps both. So he may have coughed up some cash. And perhaps K's family gave him some cash, too.

But my point here is that the fact that they left town with plenty of cash was known by someone close to the two. Who knew this, and how? (rhetorical question). It seems that it is the kind of info that the families would be privy to since they likely contributed, at the very least.

AS could very well have provided BS with cash on an ongoing basis. KM's family may have done the same. Both families could have funded at least part of their "trip". If either or both were getting cash from their families they could easily have pooled their resources to purchase a gun or guns; legally or otherwise.

I'm waiting patiently for the investigative results to be released.

My guess is their parents, or at least Kam's parents, gave them a bunch of cash in addition to whatever money they had from Walmart and other random savings. If you had two teenagers who were pretty sheltered up until this point, going off on their own for the first time, to a remote area where a lot of places are probably cash only and there aren't many ATMs, you would want to make sure they didn't run out of money and get stranded, right? You know how parents are, they worry about things (that makes me feel even worse for them, thinking about this). Plus they already gave them the pretty expensive truck and camper.

I posted a link to the CTV National News broadcast that aired a report done by Jill Macyshon. In the segment she said BS and KM were found with two firearms believed to be rifles.
That has been the only time I’ve heard reference to the types of guns.

I knew there was a report that said that, but I couldn't find it again. My guess is they only had the two guns and both were rifles, and both probably purchased legally, and Kam probably had a PAL, and his family was probably aware he had a license and guns, and were fine with it because it would be pretty normal to bring guns for safety in such a remote area (again, not blaming them).

 

[CinNC]

My guess is their parents, or at least Kam's parents, gave them a bunch of cash in addition to whatever money they had from Walmart and other random savings. If you had two teenagers who were pretty sheltered up until this point, going off on their own for the first time, to a remote area where a lot of places are probably cash only and there aren't many ATMs, you would want to make sure they didn't run out of money and get stranded, right? You know how parents are, they worry about things (that makes me feel even worse for them, thinking about this). Plus they already gave them the pretty expensive truck and camper.

Absolutely - I would want to make sure my kid had enough money to be safe, well-fed and have the option of a hotel if it was inclement weather and a hotel was even an option. I've done it many, many times with my stepkids when they were going on trips without my husband and I. I never thought twice about it; we just gave them as much as we could.

Not only that, we were always the ones letting them use our minivan when they were off on a trip somewhere with friends. Somehow, vehicles belonging to other families were never an option. We weren't thrilled that it was always our vehicle being requested, but we acquiesced. Not only that but a few times we forked over big bucks for advance repairs to make sure they would not break down.

As you said, its a parent thing.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Absolutely - I would want to make sure my kid had enough money to be safe, well-fed and have the option of a hotel if it was inclement weather and a hotel was even an option. I've done it many, many times with my stepkids when they were going on trips without my husband and I. I never thought twice about it; we just gave them as much as we could.

Not only that, we were always the ones letting them use our minivan when they were off on a trip somewhere with friends. Somehow, vehicles belonging to other families were never an option. We weren't thrilled that it was always our vehicle being requested, but we acquiesced. Not only that but a few times we forked over big bucks for advance repairs to make sure they would not break down.

As you said, its a parent thing.

Plus they didn't have any phone service for most of their trip, so if they had gotten stranded, they might not have been able to contact their parents.

Basically, I think "where did they get the money?" is the least mysterious question of this case. It would be weirder if their parents let them go off without a bunch of money, with Kam's family being as well-off as they were.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Wasn't there an early article stating that the two had left PA with plenty of cash? I'm paraphrasing and don't remember the exact wording, but the implication was there in several articles.

AS was generous with BS, and he may have done so out of love or to try and assuage his own guilt for not being there for B - or perhaps both. So he may have coughed up some cash. And perhaps K's family gave him some cash, too.

But my point here is that the fact that they left town with plenty of cash was known by someone close to the two. Who knew this, and how? (rhetorical question). It seems that it is the kind of info that the families would be privy to since they likely contributed, at the very least.

AS could very well have provided BS with cash on an ongoing basis. KM's family may have done the same. Both families could have funded at least part of their "trip". If either or both were getting cash from their families they could easily have pooled their resources to purchase a gun or guns; legally or otherwise.

I'm waiting patiently for the investigative results to be released.

The reference about how much money they had came from the interview with John McNabb, Bryer's custodial grandmother's brother.

. At about 5:20 he says "they had a fair amount of cash in their pockets"

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Where I grew up in the US high school graduation was a big deal. Announcements, invitations to open houses, photographs and gifts of money from all sorts of people. I don't know if this is a custom in Canada. But that photo of Bryer wearing a purple shirt and black suit (that's what I remember anyhow) looks like it could be from a graduation event. I'm just putting that out as a potential source of money for him.

 

[CinNC]

Plus they didn't have any phone service for most of their trip, so if they had gotten stranded, they might not have been able to contact their parents.

Basically, I think "where did they get the money?" is the least mysterious question of this case. It would be weirder if their parents let them go off without a bunch of money, with Kam's family being as well-off as they were.

The point of my original post was exactly what you mention, but I have a tendency to state things rhetorically and my point isn't always clear.

If the two boys had plenty of cash, their parents no doubt knew since it was likely that they gave it to them. This renders the whole debate over where they got money for a gun moot.

I only posted this because I'm sure the parents and RCMP know more about this, and where they would have gotten the money was the subject of several posts.

 

[MistyWaters]

The reference about how much money they had came from the interview with John McNabb, Bryer's custodial grandmother's brother.

. At about 5:20 he says "they had a fair amount of cash in their pockets"

“A fair amount of cash in their pockets”.....I think he said this to dispute SM rumours the two had been kicked out and were destitute and as a result robbery was the primary motive of murdering their victims. That was not the case as they weren’t impoverished and had enough money to pay for expenses while job hunting, according to what their family members initially believed they set out to do.

To spend the money on guns and then murder with robbery as a motive....there has to be something more to it than that. But if that’s what they did I’d bet the rest of the money was blown on booze or illegal drugs.....which is what they did and reasons why will never be completely understood.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Rewatching that interview with the uncle, I can help but wonder at them still swallowing that story of making their fortune up in Whitehorse. Bryer could of had a career in marketing. He knew what each person wanted to hear.

 

[Kiantra]

From my memory since I can’t find the direct link. July 28/29 there were reports of shots fired? At the time, it was thought to be the RCMP indicating their location in the bush because their radios weren’t working properly? Has this ever been confirmed? Is it possible it was Bryer and Kam, the day they committed suicide?

 

[MistyWaters]

Rewatching that interview with the uncle, I can help but wonder at them still swallowing that story of making their fortune up in Whitehorse. Bryer could of had a career in marketing. He knew what each person wanted to hear.

What must be incredibly difficult for parents and senior family members to deal with is their betrayal.

Imagine the array of emotions, from initial shared enthusiasm over this adventure up north, to being contacted by police about the burned truck and camper and their whereabouts unknown, to them named as suspects in the murders of three totally innocent strangers and learning they’d fled to northern Manitoba in a stolen car....then found dead by suicide.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm not sure. The thought had occurred to me also. But I also think that the RCMP may have been trying to keep the suspects contained in the bush by holding them there with dogs and armed officers. The RCMP never completely moved out of Gillam, even during the York Landing search.

Plus the York Landing search was over within 24 hours. I recall police were criticized for pulling out so quickly. I think that was because the sighting was confirmed to have been of 2 local youths and that’s the reason it was known to be “instantiated”.

 

[MistyWaters]

From my memory since I can’t find the direct link. July 28/29 there were reports of shots fired? At the time, it was thought to be the RCMP indicating their location in the bush because their radios weren’t working properly? Has this ever been confirmed? Is it possible it was Bryer and Kam, the day they committed suicide?

No the distance is far too great between the two locations for it to have been K&B. It’s 200km or 120 miles apart.

 

[Kiantra]

No the distance is far too great between the two locations for it to have been K&B. It’s 200km or 120 miles apart.

Thank you. I couldn’t remember if it was in York Landing or not.

 

[copkid]

From my memory since I can’t find the direct link. July 28/29 there were reports of shots fired? At the time, it was thought to be the RCMP indicating their location in the bush because their radios weren’t working properly? Has this ever been confirmed? Is it possible it was Bryer and Kam, the day they committed suicide?

Shots heard by York Landing, Man., residents used as a police communication tool, RCMP commander explains

York Landing is approximately 200km from Gillam.

 

[webbie]

I would be very reluctant to come to any of those conclusions. The RCMP needed the Crown to charge the suspects very quickly in order to set up the Canada wide arrest warrant and man hunt while the suspects were at large. Therefore the initial charge of murder was put in place posthaste.

Once the Canada wide warrant was in place, there was no need to post the additional murder charges until after the suspects were apprehended.

Since the suspects were found dead, there will be no additional murder charges.

So, it's not likely because the RCMP don't have evidence to support murder charges, but rather that it's for the prosaic reason that there was, and is, no clock drop urgency.

Your analysis/understanding is spot on and easily understandable.
Will it be enough to convince anyone that the RCMP did not have to lay charges immediately for the murders of LF & CD?
Time will tell.

 

[MistyWaters]

I bet this could have the family member wondering why he or she wasn’t invited to observe the video snippet claimed to be shared with other family members by the RCMP.

Many unknowns
The fact Mounties are staying mum about whether these reports are true is a move a former RCMP criminal investigator agrees with.

“To attract unnecessary attention on some piece of evidence could actually be detrimental to the work of the investigators,” Michel Juneau-Katsuya said. He notes we don’t know what could be in the recording, other than the reported final wishes.

“There is maybe something in it that talks about an accomplice, that talks about circumstances or other elements that need to be found....”
Canada manhunt suspects recorded 'last will and testament' before taking their own lives: report

 

[NJSleuth91]

I bet this could have the family member wondering why he or she wasn’t invited to observe the video snippet it’s claimed was shared by the RCMP with other family members....

Many unknowns
The fact Mounties are staying mum about whether these reports are true is a move a former RCMP criminal investigator agrees with.

“To attract unnecessary attention on some piece of evidence could actually be detrimental to the work of the investigators,” Michel Juneau-Katsuya said. He notes we don’t know what could be in the recording, other than the reported final wishes.

“There is maybe something in it that talks about an accomplice, that talks about circumstances or other elements that need to be found....”
Canada manhunt suspects recorded 'last will and testament' before taking their own lives: report

From the article:

While it’s happened before, the former investigator — who was also formerly with CSIS — says it’s not very common in Canada to find that a suspect or suspects have left behind a message.

“It is not necessarily that common that they try to have the last words in the story by giving their version, or their perspective on what took place,” Juneau-Katsuya said, reiterating what the video actually contains is still a mystery.

“It is not unheard of, but it is not that common that we will have the criminals expressing their last thoughts and their last will, and occasionally, admitting their crime just before killing themselves,” Juneau-Katsuya said.

Interesting. I am a little annoyed that he didn't go into more detail on what it could mean if criminals do leave "last words," like in terms of what circumstances or criminal profiles usually lead to that happening.