CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8

[campbellsouup]

Request it under FOIA.

FOIA doesn't apply to ongoing investigations

 

[K9Enzo]

FOIA doesn't apply to ongoing investigations

Exactly right.

 

[Cherwell]

If BT fell down a steep slope miles distant from where they were walking when RT said she disappeared, and perished from the fall and/or heat, would her death be considered 'natural causes'?

If there was no proof that anyone was with her or caused her to fall or left her alone and incapacitated or dead on purpose?

Just wondering in terms of 'COD-speak' if her body is found at the bottom of a ravine, mine, canyon rim, rockslide, rock formation, etc., and no evidence can be found as to why or how she fell, if 'natural causes' would be on the coroners' certificate, or something else like "mechanical failure" (medical term meaning someone tripped or fell) or "unknown", and how these different CODs may affect payout on any life insurance policy in BT's name?
MOO

If someone dies as the result of a fall, that is not "natural causes".

 

[cazador]

He took a 69 year old into the Mojave Desert, in July. Average daytime temp, 100 degrees F.
And 'lost her'? No.
This is not what a loving husband does.
When two people of advanced age are in dangerous weather conditions.... the Mojave in July is dangerous....You can get heat exhaustion in less than 15 minutes....
Why did he bring her there? Why the hottest month of the year?
No. He did not 'lose his wife'.
Not buying it.

They live in that environment for many years..

 

[CSIDreamer]

If BT fell down a steep slope miles distant from where they were walking when RT said she disappeared, and perished from the fall and/or heat, would her death be considered 'natural causes'?

If there was no proof that anyone was with her or caused her to fall or left her alone and incapacitated or dead on purpose?

Just wondering in terms of 'COD-speak' if her body is found at the bottom of a ravine, mine, canyon rim, rockslide, rock formation, etc., and no evidence can be found as to why or how she fell, if 'natural causes' would be on the coroners' certificate, or something else like "mechanical failure" (medical term meaning someone tripped or fell) or "unknown", and how these different CODs may affect payout on any life insurance policy in BT's name?
MOO

It would probably be listed as something like "heatstroke due to broken leg" with an accidental death box checked. I'm no medical examiner btw. I just know there are causes of death with "due to" and "underlying conditions" and then you list if it was accidental, suicide, homicide, etc.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

"They thought I was Being deceptive" RT

My own initial thought when I first watched him speak to reporters about the lie detector.

"Divorce"

That One word that causes change in Everything...

But every picture I have seen shows a loving and happy couple in retirement enjoying life..
Except for her son who makes a direct accusation. But that IS his mom.
dbdb11 just wants the truth.
One more family member made a comment early on that Barbara is her children's Grandmother.
No other family members speak a word For or Against.

So I stick to my thought that she had a heat stroke and dropped and needs to be found.

BBM: in response to this part of the post "...every picture I have seen shows a loving and happy couple in retirement enjoying life..":

There have also been comments and observations from her nephew, our VI, that they were not in a good mood that morning, and she seemed like she was 'living in his shadow' (MOO based on my interpretation of his posts -- e.g., she had no car, cell phone, or email account of her own, calls with her family living overseas were made on speakerphone, etc.).

I don't think they look particularly loving and happy, in more recent photos, anyway. She looks strained, thin, tired, and like she is pasting on a happy face ("smiling for the camera"), IMO, and is almost always turned away from him in photos I've seen.

No one seems to know what their relationship was like, although they seem to be very private people who kept to themselves (based on no friends coming forward to say anything about either of them).

If they were no longer happy together / weren't getting along and were contemplating a separation or divorce, we still don't know how, if at all, that would affect their plans for going camping in the desert the weekend before she was planning to take a trip overseas to China to be with her ailing brother. Perhaps she was planning to discuss any issues with RT and their marriage and her happiness with her brother or sister in law when she was over there, and, sadly, never got the chance.
MOO-d-MOO-d-MOO

 

[Kapua]

He took a 69 year old into the Mojave Desert, in July. Average daytime temp, 100 degrees F.
And 'lost her'? No.
This is not what a loving husband does.
When two people of advanced age are in dangerous weather conditions.... the Mojave in July is dangerous....You can get heat exhaustion in less than 15 minutes....
Why did he bring her there? Why the hottest month of the year?
No. He did not 'lose his wife'.
Not buying it.

You make good points. With regard to age and stamina, he is 72. He also does not have the same stamina, regardless of fitness level, as a younger man. That needs to be taken into consideration. IMHO.

 

[LietKynes]

Exactly right.

So then why suggest the FOIA ?
Although your sarcasm is killing me, lol.

The absurdity of the person trying to push the kidnapping theory points to other possibilities.
Looks like someone doesn't want anyone searching for her in the Mojave.

Yes, I agree this is an active criminal investigation, considering one person thought she'd been kidnapped.
By now LE should have reason for multiple search warrants since RT'd claimed Barbara was abducted.
And I don't think for a second LE is buying what's being sold.

 

[LietKynes]

It would probably be listed as something like "heatstroke due to broken leg" with an accidental death box checked. I'm no medical examiner btw. I just know there are causes of death with "due to" and "underlying conditions" and then you list if it was accidental, suicide, homicide, etc.

And if Barbara was just 'hurt'; I don't believe she'd be left lying there as someone else could walk by and rescue her.
She's most likely concealed somewhere.
She didn't fall and succumb to the elements ; imo.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Here's a 2012 tragic story of Guillermo Pino who was missing for days in the Anza-Borrego desert. After the official search was over he was found by searchers hired by the family very near where he was last seen because he had fallen into a narrow crevice. But this was in fairly unusual "mud hills" terrain famous for underground tunnels.

https://www.laweekly.com/guillermo-...evice-l-a-sheriffs-detail-helps-pull-him-out/

 

[Kapua]

BBM: in response to this part of the post "...every picture I have seen shows a loving and happy couple in retirement enjoying life..":

There have also been comments and observations from her nephew, our VI, that they were not in a good mood that morning, and she seemed like she was 'living in his shadow' (MOO based on my interpretation of his posts -- e.g., she had no car, cell phone, or email account of her own, calls with her family living overseas were made on speakerphone, etc.).

I don't think they look particularly loving and happy, in more recent photos, anyway. She looks strained, thin, tired, and like she is pasting on a happy face ("smiling for the camera"), IMO, and is almost always turned away from him in photos I've seen.

No one seems to know what their relationship was like, although they seem to be very private people who kept to themselves (based on no friends coming forward to say anything about either of them).

If they were no longer happy together / weren't getting along and were contemplating a separation or divorce, we still don't know how, if at all, that would affect their plans for going camping in the desert the weekend before she was planning to take a trip overseas to China to be with her ailing brother. Perhaps she was planning to discuss any issues with RT and their marriage and her happiness with her brother or sister in law when she was over there, and, sadly, never got the chance.
MOO-d-MOO-d-MOO

We know that she was planning to go on a solo trip to Hong Kong to visit her beloved brother, someone she cared deeply for and was close in heart to, although he lives far away. We also know that she was rarely separated from RT, except that she regularly walked her dog solo. We've speculated as to whether or not RT was controlling, based on things like her not having her own cell phone, always putting their shared phone on speaker, etc. I obviously don't know what was going on in BT's or RT's heads. And what I'm going to type next is pure speculation on my part. I think RT felt very threatened by BT's solo trip. MOO

 

[al66pine]

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7....Likewise, digging a grave would also be difficult in that heat? ...

@Nikynoo Thanks for your post. sbm
Digging a grave? Imo, the prob is not just the heat, and not just short time to dig & replace, not the physical condition of 70+ y/o man, but the ground itself, very hard, very dense.
Trying to dig by hand w pickaxe is arduous, w shovel is grueling.
I can't find it now but in an earlier thread, @10ofRods provided an excellent description, and I believe other W/S desert dwellers could attest to ^. jmo.

Not like old black & white TV westerns. You know, a stage driver on a wagon train plodding thru the desert, dies and the wagon master & a cowpuncher dig the grave, bury him and hold the funeral service too in the time it takes to water the horses.

 

[LietKynes]

@Nikynoo Thanks for your post. sbm
Digging a grave? Imo, the prob is not just the heat, and not just short time to dig & replace, but the ground itself, very hard, very dense.
Trying to dig by hand w pickaxe is arduous, w shovel is grueling.
I can't find it now but in an earlier thread, @10ofRods provided an excellent description, and I believe other W/S desert dwellers could attest to ^. jmo.

Not like old black & white TV westerns. You know, a stage driver on a wagon train plodding thru the desert, dies and the wagon master & a cowpuncher dig the grave, bury him and hold the funeral service too in the time it takes to water the horses.

Ita.
Imo; that narrows the possibilities for where and what type of terrain to search.
The problem is there's so much unaccounted for time.
Was TES ever contacted ?
Maybe after the weather cools.

Right now they should send drones out.
Even if people want to privately donate time/resources.

 

[lolafaith]

How can we know what he felt, what his mindset was/is, whether he had a plan, whether it was a spur of the moment thing, whether there was an accident or what?

The actual facts when put together all point to a bad scenario, and often the impression you get of another person or a couple is usually right.

RT has planted the seed of doubt in people's minds from his comments in his TV interview and subsequent behaviour in general and to the family - as we have been told on here.

Our assumptions are that perhaps Barbara was not happy, that she was in a controlling and coercive relationship. People that behave that way are usually pretty clever at appearing charming and lovely to the outside world, and people genuinely have no idea of their true nature. I've seen this myself with my best friend and her now ex husband - it's quite shocking when you find out the real story of someone's life behind the curtains so to speak!

Barbara's lack of friends, social life, independence, mobile phone etc could be innocuous and irrelevant, but when coupled with our suspicions of RT and his comments and behaviour, they become much more relevant.

It's so sad that after all this time she has not been found, and there is no closure for the family, just hoping that LE are quietly carrying out an investigation into RT and monitoring his movements.

 

[Kapua]

Ita.
Imo; that narrows the possibilities for where and what type of terrain to search.
The problem is there's so much unaccounted for time.
Was TES ever contacted ?
Maybe after the weather cools.

Right now they should send drones out.
Even if people want to privately donate time/resources.

Yes, this is a great idea. Aerial searches are less weather-dependent. MOO

 

[Stripehaven]

I imagine that when she’s found, there may be evidence of a COD consistent with a kidnapping/disposal. Execution-style bullet wound, for example.

 

[MassGuy]

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

@MassGuy - can you expand your theory a little? I think the 'where' would be somewhere in the desert, but, would the location need to be accessible by vehicle or at least near to where a vehicle can be parked. A dead body would be hard work to move, especially in the heat, yes? Likewise, digging a grave would also be difficult in that heat? So, on this basis, where would be a good place to hide a body, that is accessible to a vehicle.

I am sure that you have already a scenario in your head, would be grateful for you to share!

Ha! Unfortunately this question is a bit of landmine.

I agree with what you are saying about the difficulty of burial, and the need for the area to be accessible by vehicle.

Another factor to consider is the time constraint, assuming that Barb was seen alive that day.

She likely isn’t all that far from where they allegedly went hiking, atleast in regards to driving distance.

If this is foul play, the key is figuring out the last time she was independently spotted, and working outwards from there.

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes, I agree this is an active criminal investigation, considering one person thought she'd been kidnapped.
By now LE should have reason for multiple search warrants since RT'd claimed Barbara was abducted.
And I don't think for a second LE is buying what's being sold.

RSABBM:
LE took the extraordinary step of coming out publicly and putting it on blast that they ain't subscribing to what RT's pitching, i.e., LE stated on the record that they do not believe BT has been abducted.

RT ain't winning the SBSCO 2019 Salesman Of The Year Award, I can promise you that.

LE's collecting surveillance footage from stops along the route that day, as evidenced by the gas station cashier's statements to our VI about LE coming in and asking questions/collecting video from the store.

LE is unquestionably exploring all the possibilities here r/t BT's disappearance.

'Nuf said.

JMO.

 

[Blue Ridge]

If this is foul play, the key is figuring out the last time she was independently spotted, and working outwards from there.

RSBM

Using the time frame between the time stamp on the pictures we have been told exist, and the 3:30pm 911 call.

 

[MassGuy]

RSBM

Using the time frame between the time stamp on the pictures we have been told exist, and the 3:30pm 911 call.

The timing of those pictures would have to be confirmed in order for me to buy it.

So the pictures would have to have been definitively taken when he says he took them, and they would have to prove that Barb is there.

Otherwise, the time frame would be pushed to the left.