Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

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I looked up the hunting season in IN.

Hunting Regulations | eRegulations

Seems that February 13 was out of the hunting season?

I don't know if landowners or lessees are allowed to hunt on their property all year round, though.

So if this guy was dressed as the hunter or a fisherman, and the season was over, was he risking getting fined or jailed if he ran into the inspectors?

But more interesting, Indiana hunting rules tie up hunting to landowning or farming. Is it relevant for the case?

Snipped-

There were a few seasons still going on, rabbit, fox, coyote, and crow, AFAIK.

Landowners and lessees are not allowed to hunt year round, only during designated hunting seasons. However, landowners and lessees may kill nuisance animals year round. Fishing is a year round thing and a license isn't required for fishing on private land.

Seeing someone decked out in full camo, even carrying a weapon wouldn't seem out of the ordinary to me and likely any LE in the state of Indiana. Even after seasons end, people are still out putting up and taking down trail cameras, moving hunting blinds and stands, and scouting hunting areas. I generally carry a weapon when I'm out in the woods as a general precaution. I've never run into any aggressive predators, but I've known people who have. Also it's not uncommon to run into trespassers and you just never know their intentions.

ETA: I asked myself a few questions.

One, everyone says he is from Delphi because he knows the area so well. In what scenario would he be not from Delphi and yet know it so well? (There are two, he grew up here, or he has the reason to come in here, occasionally).

Two, he is well-trained in two things, killing, and not leaving traces. Luck of a hunter? Or something very different? (And did he plant the DNA, too?)

Three, someone mentioned that he was not seen on any camera. Who can know how to avoid them?

Four, the theme of “revenge” periodically pops up here. Either it is a psychotic local cat-fisher, but a person so angry would be leaving other traces. Dead, tortured, animals, for example. Yet this crime came out as a complete surprise. Is he non-local? Or he simply needed to eliminate the girls for a reason that had nothing to do with his feelings? Then what was the motive?

And then, I can imagine Libby, technology-savvy, with her wide interests and hobbies, she could have run into something near the bridge and did not understand what it was. Or took it for something from their usual game. And she could be persuaded to return it back, still not understanding what it was.

And now that DNA does not match anyone, I guess.

I don't think he has to be a local and I don't think it would have required a lot of planning. Aside from showing up in a fairly unknown area, it doesn't take a real genius to get around in the woods. I do it all the time in places I've never been without prior knowledge in some huge wilderness areas without landmarks where everything looks the same. One walk to and across the bridge would be able to show most people what areas were visible from the trail and bridge and what areas were not and the fastest and/or easiest route to get from one to the other. It's not hard to see whether a creek is deep or shallow or if the terrain is too steep. I think all he needed was decent situational awareness and a vague sense of direction, although under that limited amount of area, it's not really required as your main landmark (the bridge) would be visible for quite some time. If he walks too far, he's going to be able to see houses/structures.

Anyone who has spent time in the woods would be at an advantage in that situation, not just limited to hunters.

How many cameras were in the area? I've never heard anything that would point to anyone avoiding them because they knew they were there, rather than there just weren't any around. Some of the businesses may have had them, but they were likely focused on the parking lot and/or around the business itself. I doubt there were many trail or traffic cameras around. Not very many people would be willing to leave a trail camera in a public area just because of the risk of theft. We've lost enough of them on private property.

I will not speculate on the reasoning or motive for the murders. People murder for all sorts of reasons and sometimes no apparent reason at all.

I'm not sure exactly what you're implying re: Libby running into something near the bridge and being persuaded to return it.
 
In the April 2019 PC or in a statement right afterwards, LE said they have a witness. What exactly do you think this person witnessed? Was it at the actual crime scene? The actual murders? BG walking across the creek with the girls? BG walking after the murders? Getting into a vehicle at CPS building?
Did the witness see something after the fact? Did they see BG destroying evidence, or wearing bloody clothes, drunk and bragging about it, manic depressed or inconsolable afterwards.
I doubt it concerned behavior changes after the fact, that wouldn’t qualify to me.
If LE has a witness how could they not know who it is? If they have a witness why is no one in jail?
Just wondering about this. What do y’all think?
The witness, IMO saw BG heading towards the bridge.
I think there was another witness who saw BG leaving the Bridge area walking towards FB. JMO
Also, each witness might have seem something "Similar" but not exact, hence the 2 different sketches . JMO
 
Your post has been on my mind since I read it, and I only bring more questions, ideas and no answers.

Look at the wording here in this article.....it has bugged me for months.

"Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward"

May 15, 2019
Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward, investigator says

Authorities have not released information about how the girls died, but Carter said he believes the killer is hiding within the close-knit Delphi community.
He said someone knows who the killer is but is afraid to come forward.


“If somebody knows something, they need to tell us. I think they’re afraid too,” he said. “Somebody knows who that person is.”

“We’re going to continue to push and push and push until we get that final piece of information,” he said. “We know significantly more [information], but we’re not going to talk about that because the only other person who knows that is the killer.”


I don't know if there was an actual witness to the crimes, or if there was a witness, why the killer would let a potential witness live considering we know what he is capable of?

Since the 1st sketch was released, it was evident that at least one person saw BG in order to provide the details for the sketch.

This time around with the release of the 2nd sketch....the use of the word 'witness' implies that someone witnessed something.

If LE was referring to a family member or friend covering for the killer, wouldn't the words used be more like, 'Alibi for killer in double murder afraid to come forward'?

The whole flyer at the April presser referencing this witness has bugged me endlessly for months and I feel as though LE is somehow been appealing to that person to be the 'one last tip or piece of the puzzle.'

Perhaps they want the person to name or ID from a photo the killer, but the 'witness' is afraid of the ultimate repercussions of doing so.
Maybe the killer told the 'witness' he would be 'hiding in plain sight' and this has intimidated the witness to the point of being terrified to provide additional info?

Just thoughts, theories and JMO
The "witness" could also mean a close family member witnessed the aftermath, the killer's condition physically and mentally immediately following the murders. It sounds like LE really does have a single suspect in mind now. Whomever is close to that person hasn't come forward but I can only guess why.
 
They said that OBG sketch was a composite from several witnesses IIRC. So it is a bit of a mystery how several witnesses would be wrong or could mislead, isn't it?
Sorry if this has already been asked, but I'm just trying to catch up. My questions would be, of the "several" witnesses that contributed to the sketch released in July of 2017, did ALL of them agree that the sketch released resembled BG?
 
Sorry if this has already been asked, but I'm just trying to catch up. My questions would be, of the "several" witnesses that contributed to the sketch released in July of 2017, did ALL of them agree that the sketch released resembled BG?
Well I presume so or it wouldn't be a composite is how I interpret what was said then.

There is no way we would know that really.
 
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maybe its just me but....look at the new sketch...his eyes are kind of drawn to make them look light colored.not dark or even brown. if that makes sense.
I am concerned about the 2nd sketch as the same sketch artist did a sketch on someone for a crime in another city and I swear, to me, they look identical. Same artist did these and IMO he is not really qualified LOL
Police release sketch of suspect in Lowell break-ins
 
This article is a good resource detailing how the two sketches were created and by whom.

'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says
The sketch is such a conundrum, isn't it. OBG, does indeed look "older" and he has a goatee. So, a few people saw someone with a goatee which resulted in OBG. BUT, ONE person saw NBG and saw something they felt needed to be reported, someone younger looking WITHOUT a goatee (he may have one now, who knows?). NOW, we're told that NBG IS the killer. So WHO did the other people see (OBG) if he was NOT the killer?? o_O:confused: It's o.k., call me crazy but none of this makes sense.
 
Yes well, they were wrong but we don't know why. Wish we knew.

I mean, the witnesses... how does one become a witness? Once the information about the murders is released, the person steps forward and says, hi, i was present as the trails, at such-and-such time (and he/she has to give a good reason to be there). And I saw such-and-such person.

So the best thing is if one person is there for a reason “hiking with my friend”, or “meeting my fiancé”, and the other one corroborates (“Yes, I was late, and on my way I saw...who... and when I approached my fiancée, she was shaken”).

So I assume there might have been two witnesses, known to one another, the other one becomes the alibi for the first one...or better, they are both alibis for and another.

And they’d better be reliable people, as two meth addicts are even less believable than one.
 

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I remember in another case, the Rhoden family murders, LE saying the four accused had lied time and again to them. They knew they weren't being truthful but couldn't start the process of justice until they had the information needed that would sealed the deal and assure conviction, in their minds. We know who they are, lets watch, follow them, see what else we can find, who else might we talk to about them who could have info. I think it may be quite the simular situation here with the Delphi killer. JMO
That's what I've been thinking all along, @sunshineray -- LE sounded so confident about this case and an arrest, and it bothered me -- that LE saying that, might scare the perpetrator into leaving town or the state before LE could arrest him. I still don't quite understand why LE was so confident -- but I have faith in them still. Your example of the Rhoden case (I didn't follow that one) makes me feel better about this one. :)
 
I am concerned about the 2nd sketch as the same sketch artist did a sketch on someone for a crime in another city and I swear, to me, they look identical. Same artist did these and IMO he is not really qualified LOL
Police release sketch of suspect in Lowell break-ins

Good find.

Oh bummer. I have to say this makes me a bit more discouraged. They really do look alike and some of the more “identifying” characteristics I thought stood out with NBG are the same as in this sketch. i.e. therefore not “identifying”....
 
Is anyone seeing what I finally started seeing on the video? BG walking - is it possible that his gait is totally OK, no neuropathy, no limping, but he has something like OCD, or tics, that makes his gait so odd?

What I see him doing now is intentionally touching/ hitting the ankle of L foot with the heel of the right one. Like, you know, some people try not to step on the pavement cracks when walking, or periodically touching a wall with one hand, or some other odd mannerisms... OCD, nothing else?

With OCD, such gait might appear - disappear randomly, it usually goes away when the person is distracted. I was wondering, how could someone run so fast with neuropathic gait? But it might be normal, and then OCD would kick in.

OCD mannerisms are not totally "on a whim", not "voluntary", or rather, they are, but aren't, because the condition is ego-dystonic, but they can go away, and definitely, they can change. If it is OCD, he may very well be not walking like this now.

I wonder if one should look for someone who had such gait as a child, at school. If they think he grew up here, ask teachers at Delphi Middle and HS, and in the surrounding area, too? Or have some other odd mannerisms, or maybe have tics? The person would not blend in, but the condition might not be there now. He'd definitely look very odd during the OCD flare up. I found Gray Hughes' video, but there is one on Carrol County FB, too.


Of all motor compulsions, I found only tapping here, but IRL they can be so bad... Think of a person crossing-uncrossing the street. And yes, there is some genetic link to religiosity, but the gene causing both, actually, is responsible for "fear of making mistakes". (Perfectionism because people feel intense shame).

Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) - HelpGuide.org
 
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I agree with others----call it in. List your concerns on paper first, so you can explain it cohesively, on the phone. It may be a message machine and you need to sound concise and confident.

You never know...


Hi!
Please please please report this if you have not already. I am a Delphi resident, and in our community there is not ONE person who was not affected by this. If you need to know who to contact, I can help. If you want to be anonymous, I can help. Police here are pretty darn sure the person who ended these 2 beautiful lives had to be familiar with this area. It's not a big area. At all. My daughters live here, and we are literally only a mile away from where they were discovered. Please if you haven't, call the Delphi Police Department direct. They will listen to you.
 
Yes, and I remember us all thinking about that and theorizing a while back- did these witnesses just all see the same man (OBG sketch), and thus that’s what LE went with. Or to your point here- is it possible the witnesses were all misleading?

I personally think several witnesses probably saw this OBG sketch guy around and then LE thought the description matched the video. In which case, as a poster suggested to me above, the “good leads” that LE got after the OBG sketch was released may have been “good” because they led them to OBG who was actually only OG (old guy) and not actually BG ... so they were then able to eliminate him :cool:


MOO

I'm from the area, and to my knowledge, everything that has been released came from the very brave and smart young lady who recorded her own horrible death. I'm not an expert by any means. My only question/ frustration is the lack of anything helpful being released. A tiny video clip, and a snippet of voice. You know they have more. Everyone in the community is frustrated by this, as we all want answers.
 
I agree with others----call it in. List your concerns on paper first, so you can explain it cohesively, on the phone. It may be a message machine and you need to sound concise and confident.

You never know...

Please please call it in directly to the Delphi Police department. Ask for the chief of police. Please. I don't know if it's ok to put on here, but I have his direct cell number.
 
Your post has been on my mind since I read it, and I only bring more questions, ideas and no answers.

Look at the wording here in this article.....it has bugged me for months.

"Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward"

May 15, 2019
Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward, investigator says

Authorities have not released information about how the girls died, but Carter said he believes the killer is hiding within the close-knit Delphi community.
He said someone knows who the killer is but is afraid to come forward.


“If somebody knows something, they need to tell us. I think they’re afraid too,” he said. “Somebody knows who that person is.”

“We’re going to continue to push and push and push until we get that final piece of information,” he said. “We know significantly more [information], but we’re not going to talk about that because the only other person who knows that is the killer.”


I don't know if there was an actual witness to the crimes, or if there was a witness, why the killer would let a potential witness live considering we know what he is capable of?

Since the 1st sketch was released, it was evident that at least one person saw BG in order to provide the details for the sketch.

This time around with the release of the 2nd sketch....the use of the word 'witness' implies that someone witnessed something.

If LE was referring to a family member or friend covering for the killer, wouldn't the words used be more like, 'Alibi for killer in double murder afraid to come forward'?

The whole flyer at the April presser referencing this witness has bugged me endlessly for months and I feel as though LE is somehow been appealing to that person to be the 'one last tip or piece of the puzzle.'

Perhaps they want the person to name or ID from a photo the killer, but the 'witness' is afraid of the ultimate repercussions of doing so.
Maybe the killer told the 'witness' he would be 'hiding in plain sight' and this has intimidated the witness to the point of being terrified to provide additional info?

Just thoughts, theories and JMO

I am from Delphi and I can say for certainty 2 things. One. No one witnessed the crime. Two. The crime was recorded on the young ladies cell. Ok. Four things. Three. There was a witness who saw a man in the high bridge area that day. Four. Our police department is doing all they can, but we're simply not equipped to handle this type of thing. Historically speaking, I believe there have been maybe 2 other murders here ever, and I can guess those were drunken rages or lovers' quarrels. I can also say, everyone here is extremely frustrated by the minimal release of any information. As a mother of 2 girls, who lives within a stones throw of the scene, I'm am anxious for them to find the *advertiser censored* that literally destroyed our small town and our way of life. This area is remote as it is, then add that high bridge is even more remote, he knew the area. Very well. That's why they are convinced he's a local. It's not a marked area, it's just known to local kids who are not afraid of heights as a place to get a thrill walking on a delapidated old train bridge.
 
The witness, IMO saw BG heading towards the bridge.
I think there was another witness who saw BG leaving the Bridge area walking towards FB. JMO
Also, each witness might have seem something "Similar" but not exact, hence the 2 different sketches . JMO

There was no witness to the crime, I know to be a fact. I believe the "witnesses" were in the area and saw a man walking alone. They also have video taken by the girls themselves
 
I mean, the witnesses... how does one become a witness? Once the information about the murders is released, the person steps forward and says, hi, i was present as the trails, at such-and-such time (and he/she has to give a good reason to be there). And I saw such-and-such person.

So the best thing is if one person is there for a reason “hiking with my friend”, or “meeting my fiancé”, and the other one corroborates (“Yes, I was late, and on my way I saw...who... and when I approached my fiancée, she was shaken”).

So I assume there might have been two witnesses, known to one another, the other one becomes the alibi for the first one...or better, they are both alibis for and another.

And they’d better be reliable people, as two meth addicts are even less believable than one.

I'm a Delphi resident, and can guarantee there would be no fear in saying you were there for any reason. It is a locals only known spot to test your fear of heights, or go for a stroll. An unofficial hiking area/ park known to those of us living here.
 
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