Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Mike Britton]

@Mike Britton What is interesting, though, is to check if someone from those yearbooks has unexpectedly closed his social media, you know?

Indeed. This is similar to what I was just thinking during a ride back home from Burger King: bring a photograph into the network via PM, and check for its removal. Search (Google) for the same image, and check the same search periodically.

If you have a POI who belongs to a club, group or team, look for contrarian comments on Reddit, follow the user's comments, and look for comments discussing activities done by the club, group or team to which your POI belonged.

Back to the sketch: what if the second one (YBG) is based on a strong current suspect, one that can't be validated for some reason? DN's uncanny similarity to the OBG sketch felt purposeful when I saw the side-by-side. It looked like DN was drawn into that sketch. Soon after DN was cleared, LE had a new press conference and announced a new approach. If this approach is similar to the first, the new sketch will be drawn from a photograph of a suspect—perhaps with certain features described by the eyewitness accounts.

Eyewitness input is faulty. These sketches could have been created to suggest guilt without stating it outright. There could be features drawn from the top suspects' photographs. I strongly suspect this is a real possibility. Not what happened, necessarily, but an intuition based on the sketches themselves; the timing, the difference in ages.

My long-winded answer to your question about the sketch being an approximation is to suggest that it may not be one.

 

[susiQ]

It is a good theory but he was seen exiting the cemetery and seen in a couple of other places too wasn't he? JMO.

But WHICH BG? OBG or NBG?

 

[cody22]

BG has been seen by witnesses on the trail and the bridge and on 300 near the cemetery. He has not apparently been seen in a car or near a car. (unless new witnesses have come forward). So I am wondering if actually he came and went on foot and was local to the area indeed, perhaps there hunting or fishing or trapping and attacked the girls for some unknown psychotic reason. Then cleaned up in the creek before leaving the creek area on foot (the footprints) thru the cemetery (witnessed) and then east past RL's farm in the direction of Wilson's bridge. No vehicle was involved as no Amber alert was issued so now this vehicle at the CPS building is rather strange IMO.

That vehicle was never mentioned until the April LE PC...... I have often wondered if the NASA/Military contacts LE said they used at some earlier point (Lord, don't ask me for a link, because I am not gonna dig back through all this stuff to find it) spotted a ?colored vehicle parked near that CPS Building on the afternoon of the murders, and that info was used at the LE PC to "spook" BG and/or his possible alibi person......moo

 

[tresir2012]

But WHICH BG? OBG or NBG?

I would say YBG because LE have clearly said OBG is no longer a suspect. Thus it is clearly a young man we are looking for IMO.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

BG has been seen by witnesses on the trail and the bridge and on 300 near the cemetery. He has not apparently been seen in a car or near a car. (unless new witnesses have come forward). So I am wondering if actually he came and went on foot and was local to the area indeed, perhaps there hunting or fishing or trapping and attacked the girls for some unknown psychotic reason. Then cleaned up in the creek before leaving the creek area on foot (the footprints) thru the cemetery (witnessed) and then east past RL's farm in the direction of Wilson's bridge. No vehicle was involved as no Amber alert was issued so now this vehicle at the CPS building is rather strange IMO.

This is very interesting. I had heard, what I thought, were rumors of BG being seen walking on 300 but never knew the details or that there were confirmed witnesses. I also didn’t know about the footprints through the cemetery though I did know LE had found footprints somewhere.
Yes, it makes you wonder why the new info about the CPS vehicle is relevant. Unless LE thinks the killer arrived in that vehicle but left the scene by walking, got a ride from a friend to come back and get it.
Very interesting.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

These sketches could have been created to suggest guilt without stating it outright. There could be features drawn from the top suspects' photographs. I strongly suspect this is a real possibility.

LE perhaps left out a certain tiny feature (which would help too much), otherwise it could be exactly as you are describing it. A sketch of a photo of a suspect. Maybe, the existing witness knows and could only agree, because the sketch looks like s/he saw the BG. But the witness doesn't know, who LE is thinking (since 2019) the perp might be. MOO

 

[susiQ]

I would say YBG because LE have clearly said OBG is no longer a suspect. Thus it is clearly a young man we are looking for IMO.

But, NBG was seen by one person who felt they saw something that needed to be reported, iirc, which sketch was done only 3 days post murders, right? Did that witness see him in those other places too? I hope this isn't too confusing But, this case is rather confusing

 

[Charlot123]

Indeed. This is similar to what I was just thinking during a ride back home from Burger King: bring a photograph into the network via PM, and check for its removal. Search (Google) for the same image, and check the same search periodically.

If you have a POI who belongs to a club, group or team, look for contrarian comments on Reddit, follow the user's comments, and look for comments discussing activities done by the club, group or team to which your POI belonged.

Back to the sketch: what if the second one (YBG) is based on a strong current suspect, one that can't be validated for some reason? DN's uncanny similarity to the OBG sketch felt purposeful when I saw the side-by-side. It looked like DN was drawn into that sketch. Soon after DN was cleared, LE had a new press conference and announced a new approach. If this approach is similar to the first, the new sketch will be drawn from a photograph of a suspect—perhaps with certain features described by the eyewitness accounts.

Eyewitness input is faulty. These sketches could have been created to suggest guilt without stating it outright. There could be features drawn from the top suspects' photographs. I strongly suspect this is a real possibility. Not what happened, necessarily, but an intuition based on the sketches themselves; the timing, the difference in ages.

My long-winded answer to your question about the sketch being an approximation is to suggest that it may not be one.

Yes. Acknowledging, however, that the LE can make a mistake, too, but be very close to the real POI. For example - they based a sketch based on POI nr 1, and the real perp was POI nr 6. Who might also go to Delphi school, and be in the same / similar areas of interest. In other words, when you look through Delphi yearbooks, don't forget other faces. And - I personally would look through HS of 2018 - 2019, too.

To add - I believe that the perp tried to remove his photos from the SM, but he can't resist the temptation to leave some footprint in the media, a post, an article, a photo, a comment... something connecting him to the bridge and the murders, too.

 

[TL4S]

But, NBG was seen by one person who felt they saw something that needed to be reported, iirc, which sketch was done only 3 days post murders, right? Did that witness see him in those other places too? I hope this isn't too confusing But, this case is rather confusing

When were the interviews where these witnesses were mentioned? If it was pre-April PC YBG sketch, than I'd say they were talking about OBG.

 

[tresir2012]

But, NBG was seen by one person who felt they saw something that needed to be reported, iirc, which sketch was done only 3 days post murders, right? Did that witness see him in those other places too? I hope this isn't too confusing But, this case is rather confusing

LE are saying that sketch is the right one. I don't know how many exactly but based on GH videos he was seen leaving and seen on the trails. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Double post, sorry

 

[tresir2012]

When were the interviews where these witnesses were mentioned? If it was pre-April PC YBG sketch, than I'd say they were talking about OBG.

We can't actually say when because YBG was from one witness only 3 days after the murder. LE have been tight lipped about witnesses and we have only learnt any specifics by watching GH videos and interviews which are neither LE or MSM but are allowed to be discussed.

 

[Charlot123]

See, the car at the CPS lot throws me, too. I know they haven't yet linked it directly to BG, but there's two unknowns during the time of the crimes: BG, and that car. I think there's a good chance they're connected, but I could be wrong.

With the car, the most concerning thing would be the fact that the owner did not come forward. This being said, what if he left the car there for a meth transaction? Or a rendez-vous with a married person? If his client/heartthrob is his "alibi", it is not good for either.

(And in general, acknowledging certain activities is dangerous...remember RL. Whose alibi landed him in jail).

I mean, the car is suspicious, but there may be a very different reason for it being left at the CPS bldg.

 

[TL4S]

I think most of the detailed witness information comes from sources other than LE, like SM and GH's interviews with the families. LE has made some statements regarding witnesses, but they never, to my knowledge, specified if he was seen before or after the murders.

These links are in chronological order. Keep in mind the dates. Some are during the OBG sketch phase (including GH's interview with the families), and some are since the April PC (YBG). I'm not taking a stance either way on the veracity of the witness information. To each his own. And as @tresir2012 pointed out, since the YBG sketch was drawn 3 days after the murder, we don't know which witness saw who.

8/14/17
Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence
Sgt. Holeman tells us several people have come forward and said they saw the killer walking on the trails the day Abby and Libby were killed. Those people helped develop a composite sketch that was released last month.


10/5/18

IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105


4/22/19
https://44news.wevv.com/isp-release-video-audio-new-sketch-suspect-delphi-murder/
Addressing the suspect State Police Superintendent Carter said, “We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there’s no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls.”


4/23/19
'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says
In vague terms, Bryant told the Star the image was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported. The sketch is a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

 

[TL4S]

Indeed. This is similar to what I was just thinking during a ride back home from Burger King: bring a photograph into the network via PM, and check for its removal. Search (Google) for the same image, and check the same search periodically.

If you have a POI who belongs to a club, group or team, look for contrarian comments on Reddit, follow the user's comments, and look for comments discussing activities done by the club, group or team to which your POI belonged.

Back to the sketch: what if the second one (YBG) is based on a strong current suspect, one that can't be validated for some reason? DN's uncanny similarity to the OBG sketch felt purposeful when I saw the side-by-side. It looked like DN was drawn into that sketch. Soon after DN was cleared, LE had a new press conference and announced a new approach. If this approach is similar to the first, the new sketch will be drawn from a photograph of a suspect—perhaps with certain features described by the eyewitness accounts.

Eyewitness input is faulty. These sketches could have been created to suggest guilt without stating it outright. There could be features drawn from the top suspects' photographs. I strongly suspect this is a real possibility. Not what happened, necessarily, but an intuition based on the sketches themselves; the timing, the difference in ages.

My long-winded answer to your question about the sketch being an approximation is to suggest that it may not be one.

I've considered this idea about the sketches looking like someone specific, but Carter has said this (albeit a bit confusing):
In regards to the sketch:

5/15/19
ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders
"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

*Carter later clarified he meant a combination between the two sketches, but I can't find that link right now.

 

[TL4S]

We can't actually say when because YBG was from one witness only 3 days after the murder. LE have been tight lipped about witnesses and we have only learnt any specifics by watching GH videos and interviews which are neither LE or MSM but are allowed to be discussed.

I'd love to hear if each of these witnesses saw OBG, or YBG. Did any of them ever say the man they saw didn't look anything like the OBG sketch?

 

[moonlessnight]

I think they were meeting someone but it wasn't necessarily a romantic meeting or a boy. I think they were lured with some idea or item of intrigue. Maybe photography related, maybe otherwise. There are activities we can't discuss that could be related. I also think at that age teens can arrange casual meetups fast bc kids often don't know how, what, or when they will be able to do anything due to reliance on others for approval or transport. I don't think BG is a kid as in teen, but young enough to be able to roll with the changing schedules of young teens.

I won't entirely dismiss any idea until BG is caught, but here's my reasons for doubting the girls were planning on meeting someone that day.

• They weren't dressed for it, IMO. I can't remember which interview (there was a man and a woman talking to AW over the phone - I think their theory was GK was BG), but AW even said Abby wouldn't have worn her hair that way if she was meeting a boy.
  
• Holeman mentioned other audio of the girls. I think if the girls were going to meet someone, that's what they would have been talking about, and LE would be all over it. Maybe they are, but that isn't the impression I get. JMO BBM Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence"It does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.
• Again, I don't know which interview with BP or KG, but one of them explained when KG said she was leaving, Libby asked if she could drop them at the trail on her way. Whether or not they were secretly planning this along, it seems last minute, and in order to meet someone there, they would have then had to contact him somehow, and he also would have had to be available and hustle to get there and meet up. LE would probably know this from Libby's phone, IMO, and would be all over that, as well. JMO
• If they planned to meet a boy, IMO, they would plan to meet somewhere on the north end of the bridge. Crossing the bridge would be something they might do with a boy(s), for fun. Again, JMO
• KG said in her last interview with GH (sorry, no link right now) that LE has done the SM angle and it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the murders. This is subjective, of course.

 

[moonlessnight]

this is actually a very good point. BG could not have done this crime on the trail side of the bridge - too many other people and no privacy.
This is why they think he is local and very familiar with that area - he knew how and where to get them so he could assure privacy and escape. He knew where the private property lines were and which side of the creek to find cover. If he had stayed on the bridge side of the creek, there are roads and houses and not as much tree cover. He knew exactly what, where, and how to do what he wanted to do. This was absolutely preplanned.

The only thing that speaks against this theory is, that one person was on the bridge, where the girls have been. What else could have happened in this area, would have happened beneath the bridge probably, on the trail, in the woods. Why did BG enter the bridge? Why was it necessary, if he wasn't on a thrill-kill mission?
IF the girls took photos of the area beneath the bridge and BG was down there and was afraid of these pics, why did he leave the phone at the crime scene?
It doesn't make sense for me, I'm further wrecking my brain ....

 

[moonlessnight]

I don't think there is any evidence that BG was seen on the trails outside of the bridge video. We don't know where the OBG sketch came from, except that a man who matched the sketch was arrested on child rape charges after the murders and cleared of the murders. YBG was not specifically placed on the trails by a witness, but was linked to questions about a car at the DCS/CPS bldg. I seriously doubt BG was on any of the trails after the murder, unless he's super stupid, which is possible. I think he accesses the bridge from the woods adjacent to it after walking through the woods from CPS or the cemetery, not the trails. He even could have been waiting under the bridge ties - hiding in the steel girders and climbed up onto the bridge after the girls passed his location.

BG has been seen by witnesses on the trail and the bridge and on 300 near the cemetery. He has not apparently been seen in a car or near a car. (unless new witnesses have come forward). So I am wondering if actually he came and went on foot and was local to the area indeed, perhaps there hunting or fishing or trapping and attacked the girls for some unknown psychotic reason. Then cleaned up in the creek before leaving the creek area on foot (the footprints) thru the cemetery (witnessed) and then east past RL's farm in the direction of Wilson's bridge. No vehicle was involved as no Amber alert was issued so now this vehicle at the CPS building is rather strange IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

With the car, the most concerning thing would be the fact that the owner did not come forward. This being said, what if he left the car there for a meth transaction? Or a rendez-vous with a married person? If his client/heartthrob is his "alibi", it is not good for either.

(And in general, acknowledging certain activities is dangerous...remember RL. Whose alibi landed him in jail).

I mean, the car is suspicious, but there may be a very different reason for it being left at the CPS bldg.

Exactly. The car owner may have been deer poaching or any other illegal activity for which he would not wish to admit. If LE are still looking for the owner they should work something out to overcome that. E.g. have the owner come forward via a lawyer.