How does post #152 explain how BS was so relaxed in his pose, a question asked of the person who claims he died by suicide? It explains how he was found, but not how he could've pulled off that display after he died?See dotr's recent post #152.
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12
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This is what makes no sense, although for the killer/s it must mean something, but what!
Why was BS's body seemingly respectfully posed, ie glasses on, legs crossed, presumably not bloodied, yet HS was apparently slumped over, sitting in her own blood, with cuts/abrasions to her face?
speculation, imo.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
"The agent, entering first, was the one who found them. Barry and Honey, spouses of more than 40 years, were side by side on the floor, their necks tied with men’s leather belts to a metal railing, about three and a half feet high, that ran around one end of the pool. Barry, heavyset with a crown of frizzy, thinning gray-and-brown hair, was seated, legs extended forward and crossed neatly at the ankles. Honey, who had a blond bob and an athletic frame, was slumped on her side and appeared to have been struck on her face."
The first coroner ruled the cod as undetermined. I question his or her competency. That having been said I believe LE wanted the killers to think they were investigating a m/s and not a m/m in the intervening period. I believe the family was told by LE to not believe what was being reported, but I believe the family went around LE and hired Greenspan anyways. Imo this soured relations between the family and LE.
Certain parties would benefit by having them both dead. Either for financial reasons, or as payback for something. Imo
I wonder if it could be because rigor mortis had already started to set in to HS's body by the time she was hung, and so the killer(s) thought they were hanging her in the same position, but after the rigor mortis left the body, she then slumped over. Barry may have been hung while still in a 'flaccid' state, before rigor mortis, and so his body remained the same after going through those phases?
The first coroner ruled the COD as 'ligature neck compression', however he ruled the manner of death to be undetermined. Nowhere have I read that the cause was hanging. Further investigation was required before proof was found which made LE confident in stating double homicide. We are not privy to what exactly the proof was, which seemed to have taken some six weeks. I too question the competence/experience/confidence of the first medical examiner and I believe they should've put their most experienced person on this. imo.
casesensitive
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Oh, I saw my quote and thought I was being asked. This makes more sense.
See dotr's recent post #152.
Yes. The investigators were quite impressed with Barry’s legs. No way was this a suicide
MistyWaters
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Just to point out a complete autopsy of a murder victim involves much greater complexity than a visual examination of the body.
Science for Justice
Ontario's Centre of Forensic Sciences (CFS) is one of the most extensive forensic science facilities in North America. It conducts scientific investigations in cases involving injury or death for crimes against persons or property.
We are dedicated to the safety of Ontario’s communities and to supporting justice by providing timely and high quality forensic science services.
Centre of Forensic Sciences - Science for Justice | Ministry of the Solicitor General
Science for Justice
Ontario's Centre of Forensic Sciences (CFS) is one of the most extensive forensic science facilities in North America. It conducts scientific investigations in cases involving injury or death for crimes against persons or property.
We are dedicated to the safety of Ontario’s communities and to supporting justice by providing timely and high quality forensic science services.
Centre of Forensic Sciences - Science for Justice | Ministry of the Solicitor General
FWIW..
Brewer's: Cross-legged Knights
"Brewer's: Cross-legged Knights
“Sometimes the figure on the tomb of a knight has his legs crossed at the ankles, this meant that the knight went one crusade. If the legs are crossed at the knees, he went twice; if at the thighs he went three times. ” —Ditchfield: Our Villages, 1889."
Southern Reporter, Volume 15
West Publishing Company, 1894 - Law reports, digests, etc
Includes the decisions of the Supreme Courts of Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, and Mississippi, the Appellate Courts of Alabama and, Sept. 1928/Jan. 1929-Jan./Mar. 1941, the Courts of Appeal of Louisiana.
Southern Reporter
Hard to read passage without using the link's built in magnifier, but interesting as it relates to whether or not a person found with legs crossed was in fact murdered, or committed suicide as initially believed..
Brewer's: Cross-legged Knights
"Brewer's: Cross-legged Knights
“Sometimes the figure on the tomb of a knight has his legs crossed at the ankles, this meant that the knight went one crusade. If the legs are crossed at the knees, he went twice; if at the thighs he went three times. ” —Ditchfield: Our Villages, 1889."
Southern Reporter, Volume 15
West Publishing Company, 1894 - Law reports, digests, etc
Includes the decisions of the Supreme Courts of Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, and Mississippi, the Appellate Courts of Alabama and, Sept. 1928/Jan. 1929-Jan./Mar. 1941, the Courts of Appeal of Louisiana.
Southern Reporter
Hard to read passage without using the link's built in magnifier, but interesting as it relates to whether or not a person found with legs crossed was in fact murdered, or committed suicide as initially believed..
Last edited:
MistyWaters
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Robin William’s death on August 30th was officially ruled a suicide in November of that year. He was also found in a seated position with a belt looped around his neck, attached to a door. The same statements could be asked of his death investigation - why’d it take so long for the manner of death to be determined? If it looks like suicide, quacks like a duck, police have eyes, they ought to know - no point of a thorough medical autopsy which takes time to complete.
Robin Williams: Autopsy Confirms Death by Suicide
“.....Also noteworthy, according to Williams’ wife, is that he may have learned of the suicide technique from a movie role in which a character Williams portrayed died from autoerotic asphyxiation....”
It just so happens how the Sherman’s bodies were staged, much like Robin Williams placed himself in a seated position. The difference is RW was battling depression, anxiety and the early stages of Parkinson’s disease. Regarding the movie mentioned above, the title was World’s Greatest Dad.
World's Greatest Dad - Wikipedia
We don’t know everything about the manner in which the Sherman bodies were staged or why it might’ve appeared to be double suicide or murder/suicide at first glance but I do wonder if there was more than that. It may have been intended to not only deeply damage the reputation of the victims but also to cause embarrassment and humiliation to their immediate family members, especially if a staged connection to autoerotic asphyxiation was involved such as belt removed, pants undone, etc. Revenge, in the most spiteful way possible.
The killer did destroy their lives of B&S however he failed at destroying their reputations and I’m happy to read media stories from time to time regarding the continuance of the Sherman legacy.
I’ve seen nothing to sway my opinion that the early TPS leak of m/s was a deliberate strategy, a tactic. Who would be most inclined to further promote m/s other than the killer during police interviews, smug at the belief their repulsive work of attempting to conceal a double murder was successful.
I still have strong faith this case will see an arrest and it’s just a matter of time.
Robin Williams: Autopsy Confirms Death by Suicide
“.....Also noteworthy, according to Williams’ wife, is that he may have learned of the suicide technique from a movie role in which a character Williams portrayed died from autoerotic asphyxiation....”
It just so happens how the Sherman’s bodies were staged, much like Robin Williams placed himself in a seated position. The difference is RW was battling depression, anxiety and the early stages of Parkinson’s disease. Regarding the movie mentioned above, the title was World’s Greatest Dad.
World's Greatest Dad - Wikipedia
We don’t know everything about the manner in which the Sherman bodies were staged or why it might’ve appeared to be double suicide or murder/suicide at first glance but I do wonder if there was more than that. It may have been intended to not only deeply damage the reputation of the victims but also to cause embarrassment and humiliation to their immediate family members, especially if a staged connection to autoerotic asphyxiation was involved such as belt removed, pants undone, etc. Revenge, in the most spiteful way possible.
The killer did destroy their lives of B&S however he failed at destroying their reputations and I’m happy to read media stories from time to time regarding the continuance of the Sherman legacy.
I’ve seen nothing to sway my opinion that the early TPS leak of m/s was a deliberate strategy, a tactic. Who would be most inclined to further promote m/s other than the killer during police interviews, smug at the belief their repulsive work of attempting to conceal a double murder was successful.
I still have strong faith this case will see an arrest and it’s just a matter of time.
D
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N.Y. officials: We found $1 billion in Sackler family wire transfers
WASHINGTON -- The New York attorney general's office said in a Friday court filing that it had found at least $1 billion in wire transfers by the Sackler family, fueling claims the owners of OxyContin-maker Purdue Pharma were trying to hide assets as they faced a growing number of lawsuits over their role in the opioid crisis.
-.-
A reason for a family for (double) murder, if the owner won't hide the assets in time before future lawsuits, which were coming/would have been coming ....?
WASHINGTON -- The New York attorney general's office said in a Friday court filing that it had found at least $1 billion in wire transfers by the Sackler family, fueling claims the owners of OxyContin-maker Purdue Pharma were trying to hide assets as they faced a growing number of lawsuits over their role in the opioid crisis.
-.-
A reason for a family for (double) murder, if the owner won't hide the assets in time before future lawsuits, which were coming/would have been coming ....?
If they aren't hiding them in life, there is no guarantee that they will be hidden in death.
Wish I shared you enthusiasm. Many months ago it was revealed that there was only one full time officer working this case. That doesn't give me confidence that they are anywhere close to making an arrest.
D
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After BS' and HS' death, they are trying, it seems ....
Where is Honey Sherman’s will?
Now, a court-ordered veil of secrecy shrouds almost everything related to the Sherman estates, as does a court order keeping secret the progress of the yearlong Toronto police homicide probe.
The article is from Dec 2018
Re post. snippets.
June 22 2019
Murdered billionaire Barry Sherman planned to give away or invest much of his fortune, sources say
"Barry Sherman had big plans in the year leading up to his murder — make an enormous donation to charity, gift hundreds of millions of dollars to his wife, Honey, and expand Apotex.
Those plans, described to the Star in interviews by people close to the Sherman couple, had not been acted upon at the time of their murders."
"For the purpose of this story, sources have been granted confidentiality for several different reasons depending on the individual, including a fear for their personal safety, fear of economic reprisals, and a concern that by speaking publicly they will interfere with the police investigation, particularly if they are ever called to testify in a courtroom"
"While he had been generous to his children and relatives, he told his friends he did not want them to inherit all of his wealth. “It was just too much,” said one friend. “He never intended the children to have all of that money.”
One of Sherman’s ideas was to make a major donation to charity while still alive. He had discussions about this with at least three people close to him in the last year of his life.
“Who really needs this amount of money?” he said to one person he was close with. Another recalled, “(Sherman) certainly told me that he intended to give away the bulk of his wealth to charity.” Sherman told these people that while he intended to make a major donation he wanted to assure that enough was set aside to provide for his children.
He told people he was inspired by Warren Buffett, the wealthy American businessman who with Bill and Melinda Gates created the “Giving Pledge” — an initiative where extremely wealthy people agree to gift the majority of their fortune to good works in their lifetime."
Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources | The Star
June 27 2019
"In the spring of 2015, upset with what he saw as reckless business decisions, Apotex billionaire Barry Sherman’s son Jonathon floated the idea to his three siblings that their father was incompetent and unable to manage the family’s business affairs, according to three sources with knowledge of the matter.
This came at a time when Jonathon and Barry were having tense discussions about how the Sherman family fortune should be spent. Specifically, according to an email exchange he had with Barry over two days, Jonathon disagreed with what he saw as his father’s reliance on “gut” feelings instead of sound business plans. Jonathon also wanted more money invested with his own ventures, and less with his father’s friend, businessman Frank D’Angelo."
June 22 2019
Murdered billionaire Barry Sherman planned to give away or invest much of his fortune, sources say
"Barry Sherman had big plans in the year leading up to his murder — make an enormous donation to charity, gift hundreds of millions of dollars to his wife, Honey, and expand Apotex.
Those plans, described to the Star in interviews by people close to the Sherman couple, had not been acted upon at the time of their murders."
"For the purpose of this story, sources have been granted confidentiality for several different reasons depending on the individual, including a fear for their personal safety, fear of economic reprisals, and a concern that by speaking publicly they will interfere with the police investigation, particularly if they are ever called to testify in a courtroom"
"While he had been generous to his children and relatives, he told his friends he did not want them to inherit all of his wealth. “It was just too much,” said one friend. “He never intended the children to have all of that money.”
One of Sherman’s ideas was to make a major donation to charity while still alive. He had discussions about this with at least three people close to him in the last year of his life.
“Who really needs this amount of money?” he said to one person he was close with. Another recalled, “(Sherman) certainly told me that he intended to give away the bulk of his wealth to charity.” Sherman told these people that while he intended to make a major donation he wanted to assure that enough was set aside to provide for his children.
He told people he was inspired by Warren Buffett, the wealthy American businessman who with Bill and Melinda Gates created the “Giving Pledge” — an initiative where extremely wealthy people agree to gift the majority of their fortune to good works in their lifetime."
Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources | The Star
June 27 2019
"In the spring of 2015, upset with what he saw as reckless business decisions, Apotex billionaire Barry Sherman’s son Jonathon floated the idea to his three siblings that their father was incompetent and unable to manage the family’s business affairs, according to three sources with knowledge of the matter.
This came at a time when Jonathon and Barry were having tense discussions about how the Sherman family fortune should be spent. Specifically, according to an email exchange he had with Barry over two days, Jonathon disagreed with what he saw as his father’s reliance on “gut” feelings instead of sound business plans. Jonathon also wanted more money invested with his own ventures, and less with his father’s friend, businessman Frank D’Angelo."
MistyWaters
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Many months ago TSP talked about fluid resourcing allocations and how the officers in the homicide department were not assigned to just work on one case at a time. They’re assigned to multiple ongoing investigations on a needs basis. So just because one officer at one time was dealing with receipt of information served by warrants isn’t really indicative of anything, other than the investigation was proceeding.
Interesting. Do you have a link for that by chance? I can't find anything.
Answers might be found here? imo.
2013
http://www.tpsb.ca/CIOR TPS Strategic Analysis and Resource Requirements.pdf
2017
MCM - 2017 Major Case Management Manual | Ministry of the Solicitor General
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