Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[sunshineray]

I can't speak for how active they both were or weren't on SM (LG at least has been shown to have had several SM accounts however), but in terms of what the draw is for Snapchat, it's primarily just a way for this age group to stay in contact with each other. Basically takes the place of texting (source: I have several tweens/teens of my own ). The photo element of it is kind of extraneous, and more of a way to talk "face to face". The photos generally aren't ones people would want to save.

So whereas people in my age-group tend to use texting to quickly communicate, this age group uses Snapchat. And another upside to some is that it's NOT saved. Communications are quick and private. The privacy isn't all that important to a lot of them, but to some it would be I think.

MOO.

Ok I guess it's just the generation gap showing in me then. I would think kids Abby and Libby's age would want to saved conversations and pics to look back on, discuss and laugh about. The whole you send it and in seconds it disappears seems much more an adult type thing...but what do I know. Thanks for the crash course. What do you think the odds are it could have been used to confront someone about things known about them...by someone the girl's age?

 

[sunshineray]

Something curious to me in the court documents is that LG's family filed for data access in 10/17, while AW's wasn't until 2/18. Why a 4 month difference? Did something happen between those dates that made them want to look deeper into A's data? And wouldn't LE have already had access to all that, or not?

That's data access for the family members not LE right? Wouldn't LE investigators have acquired access to both girls data right after the murders?

 

[cattlekate]

I apologize for butting in. I have not been following this case since 2017. Out of frustration/curiosity I’m catching up. I’ve watched/rewatched all of the pressers. I looked at past WS comments and ancillary stuff.

I know Tricia runs a tight ship so I am hesitant to post my thoughts. But from afar (Colorado/Utah and formerly a Wisconsinite) I’ve got some thoughts.

The audio is definately a South Eastern Midwestern voice. Twangy and reedy/tin-ey. Not deep and with no long Minnesota or Wisconsin ooohs.

Doug Carter’s emotive April 2019 presser is very revealing. Especially his comments about “The Shack.” As well as his comments about the killer(s) being familiar with Delphi. As well with later follow-ups that the younger composite and older composite may have similarities. As well as his comments about the killer sharing info to another.

I believe there may be a religious component. I was raised a Methodist and lived in Utah for while so I can relate to Doug Carter’s emotions and The Shack reference. Beliefs can force a kind of pathway thing.

I believe the families of Abby and Libby to be totally uninvolved. I don’t think there are any drug or SRO or meat-packing plant connections. My heart just breaks for the families and Liberty and Abigail.

 

[FinePrint]

I apologize for butting in. I have not been following this case since 2017. Out of frustration/curiosity I’m catching up. I’ve watched/rewatched all of the pressers. I looked at past WS comments and ancillary stuff.

I know Tricia runs a tight ship so I am hesitant to post my thoughts. But from afar (Colorado/Utah and formerly a Wisconsinite) I’ve got some thoughts.

The audio is definately a South Eastern Midwestern voice. Twangy and reedy/tin-ey. Not deep and with no long Minnesota or Wisconsin ooohs.

Doug Carter’s emotive April 2019 presser is very revealing. Especially his comments about “The Shack.” As well as his comments about the killer(s) being familiar with Delphi. As well with later follow-ups that the younger composite and older composite may have similarities. As well as his comments about the killer sharing info to another.

I believe there may be a religious component. I was raised a Methodist and lived in Utah for while so I can relate to Doug Carter’s emotions and The Shack reference. Beliefs can force a kind of pathway thing.

I believe the families of Abby and Libby to be totally uninvolved. I don’t think there are any drug or SRO or meat-packing plant connections. My heart just breaks for the families and Liberty and Abigail.

Please, no butting in at all....We need some fresh thinking around here that is for sure.

Do you think DC religious comments are associated with his own beliefs and this is just how he communicates his emotions or do you think there is some kind of message he is trying to deliver to the monster?

 

[MJPeony]

Ok I guess it's just the generation gap showing in me then. I would think kids Abby and Libby's age would want to saved conversations and pics to look back on, discuss and laugh about. The whole you send it and in seconds it disappears seems much more an adult type thing...but what do I know. Thanks for the crash course. What do you think the odds are it could have been used to confront someone about things known about them...by someone the girl's age?

I think it’s possible. There are lots of other sites/apps that could have been used too- from Kik, to Tik-Tok, to Sarahah (allows anonymous posts). Just so many possibilities.

But if they were confronted through SM, LE probably has been able to track it by now. And if they were confronted I also think it likely wasn’t by someone their age. Just based on the images of BG and also the age range given by LE.


MOO.

 

[moonlessnight]

I am certain there are quite specific reasons LE believes there is a religious component to the crime - things they have not released. They don't just make off handed comments like DC did in the PC - it's intentional and scripted. That DC has faith is irrelevant, except that he understands the level of betrayal these killings will reveal themselves to be to the families and the entire community due to the presence of religion in the murders and in the killer.

Please, no butting in at all....We need some fresh thinking around here that is for sure.

Do you think DC religious comments are associated with his own beliefs and this is just how he communicates his emotions or do you think there is some kind of message he is trying to deliver to the monster?

 

[FinePrint]

I am certain there are quite specific reasons LE believes there is a religious component to the crime - things they have not released. They don't just make off handed comments like DC did in the PC - it's intentional and scripted. That DC has faith is irrelevant, except that he understands the level of betrayal these killings will reveal themselves to be to the families and the entire community due to the presence of religion in the murders and in the killer.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend!

 

[Boxer]

Does anyone know if both girls were very active on social media sites? I know it's been mentioned Abby had a FB account on the sly. I gather Snapchat is a big thing also but what exactly is the premise of that. None of the pictures someone posts stay on the platform, ever? What's the draw for that age group to use that? Wouldn't they want their pictures to stay on a FB type platform for all to see?

Unless they were antisocial teens they had accounts. I saw that at least Libby had Instagram. All normal.
MOO its about criminals.
Jamie Closs crossed a street.

 

[Nadal]

Maybe they weren't in contact with BG on SM but they announced their intentions to go to the trail that day and LE thinks BG was stalking their SM. If he planned attacking children in the area it'd be safer looking through social media for local children and their plans than driving around and possibly risking your vehicle or yourself being identified.

 

[Nadal]

But if they were confronted through SM, LE probably has been able to track it by now.

Possibly not if he was using TOR or something similar.

 

[cattlekate]

Please, no butting in at all....We need some fresh thinking around here that is for sure.

Do you think DC religious comments are associated with his own beliefs and this is just how he communicates his emotions or do you think there is some kind of message he is trying to deliver to the monster?

I believe it was a scripted message from DC.

I feel so stupid writing this, but as a Methodist and old prayin’ gal, I do not believe the reference to The Shack was accidental. I do not believe DC was selected to be a spokesperson by seniority.

I believe the entire April presser was scripted by behavioral people in the know and DC is a member of an intimate community.

My heart just weeps at the thought that there is a religious component. But after living in Utah and the whole Lafferty/Under The Banner of Heaven debacle, I would not be surprised at there being religious fervor and family “honor” being involved.

The families had nothing to do with this, IMHO. My heart just weeps.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Just a thought....the killer intends to target one of the girls. He finds out they are headed to the trails and thinks this is my opportunity and heads there himself.
Even then there is no way he could know where on the trails he would find the girls, or what they would be doing, or who they might have seen there and decided to hang out with, etc. In order for his targeting to be successful he has to find the girls alone and isolated, with no one reasonably close or in eyesight. And he lucks out and that happens.
It’s just as possible he heads to the trails and none of it lines up and he leaves with the girls unharmed. Then the thought is, how many times does this happen, at the trails or other places, with him trying to target the girls before it works? My point is, I guess, that the chances of a killer that is targeting one of them to be successful on that day, is very small I think. It is possible though. Maybe he just got lucky.
For the above reasons I don’t think the girls were targeted in the sense that someone planned all this beforehand, catfishing them, tracking on their phone etc. I do think it’s possible somebody felt they had a grudge or score to settle and thought hurting the girls would satisfy that, and a random opportunity presented itself and they took advantage of it.
Just my opinion. Don’t hate me.

 

[Nadal]

Just a thought....the killer intends to target one of the girls. He finds out they are headed to the trails and thinks this is my opportunity and heads there himself.
Even then there is no way he could know where on the trails he would find the girls, or what they would be doing, or who they might have seen there and decided to hang out with, etc.

What if they were updating social media as they went along or uploading pictures they were taking? I'm not married to this theory just offering alternate explanations to "got lucky", i don't have the slightest idea and a grudge is as good as any guess. Only reason i don't lean that way myself is because i think they'd have identified him by now and it doesn't sound like it from their comments IMO.

 

[cattlekate]

As an old Methodist, I’m pulling out my Bible and now looking at Leviticus, Luke, and Matthew, since I believe there is a religious component and DC did not accidentally throw in “The Shack” reference.

It’s weird how I’m now watching 2017 Jan, Feb, Mar local sermons on you tube.

 

[Nadal]

Delphi is a very religious town right? Maybe there's no known religious component to the crime and Carter simply thinks BG could be being protected by someone and chances are that person is religious so appealing to the Christian in them could convince them to do the right thing and give him up.

 

[Falcon500]

I believe it was a scripted message from DC.



I believe the entire April presser was scripted by behavioral people in the know and DC is a member of an intimate community.

Absolutely agree. The whole thing was probably scripted to appeal to what the behavioral people though would bring him out of the woodwork. Good observation Cattlecake.

 

[Boxer]

Possibly not if he was using TOR or something similar.

Libby had Kik, so that is always a question. Untraceable.

 

[Nadal]

Libby had Kik, so that is always a question. Untraceable.

Kik logs IP Addresses though so i'd imagine LE could subpoeana them for the IP's of anyone they were talking with. They can't do that with TOR, it's possible but very difficult to track someone down who is using TOR especially if they know what they're doing. Of course if he accessed Kik with TOR then that brings another layer of anonymity.

 

[cattlekate]

more notes on snapchat...

i don't know about the snapchat features available at the time of the crime, but certainly sure that in the last year or maybe more, one feature on snapchat would have allowed users to see another users current location on a map.

you can also save snaps, or create stories that do not disappear after they are viewed.

another convenient feature of snapchat is that when you are using the app, it opens directly to the camera so that you can immediately capture a picture or video. seems like a pretty good possibility that this is how the video of the perp was captured.

All Snapchat interactions are saved by the company.

However, if a brief chat was done in person, it’s not saved anywhere on SM.

As an old Methodist, I’m watching the local Delphi and Monticello Methodist sermons from before and after.

Wasn’t Liberty’s funeral sermon at the local Delphi Methodist Church? I cannot find that sermon and eulogy online. I think it was private. Were Liberty/Abby members of the Methodist congregation?

That being said, it’s just so weird to tap into YouTube and watch before and after local sermons. I dunno - they don’t sound much like the liberal Methodist Church I grew up in and raised my kids in, but that’s probably just me.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Hi StarryStarryNight,

JMO
IF the girls posted/messaged “we’re going to take pictures of the bridge”, or something similar which specifies the MHB as their destination, it seems all someone would have to do is hang out on the trail near the bridge where they could see people approaching from both directions, or at least the direction from which the girls would most likely come. This assumes BG was monitoring a social media account which the girls posted to and that he was in the Delphi area when they posted it. It also assumes the girls were specifically targeted.
JMO

~RIP M+J

Just a thought....the killer intends to target one of the girls. He finds out they are headed to the trails and thinks this is my opportunity and heads there himself.
Even then there is no way he could know where on the trails he would find the girls, or what they would be doing, or who they might have seen there and decided to hang out with, etc. In order for his targeting to be successful he has to find the girls alone and isolated, with no one reasonably close or in eyesight. And he lucks out and that happens.
It’s just as possible he heads to the trails and none of it lines up and he leaves with the girls unharmed. Then the thought is, how many times does this happen, at the trails or other places, with him trying to target the girls before it works? My point is, I guess, that the chances of a killer that is targeting one of them to be successful on that day, is very small I think. It is possible though. Maybe he just got lucky.
For the above reasons I don’t think the girls were targeted in the sense that someone planned all this beforehand, catfishing them, tracking on their phone etc. I do think it’s possible somebody felt they had a grudge or score to settle and thought hurting the girls would satisfy that, and a random opportunity presented itself and they took advantage of it.
Just my opinion. Don’t hate me.