Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

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Ok so if BG is currently 18-40 and lived in or worked in Delphi then let's look at the bottom end of that scale. Aged 18 now and lived in Delphi, lives elsewhere now is pretty specific especially when tied to the NBG sketch. This would be someone from Delphi HS. It has to be that, as the pupils were all off that day. If it was not someone from the HS, why has LE got such a young age in the range along with a young sketch?
AJMO
 
What if the Delphi murders were not sexually motivated and were the actions of a person that was trying to protect himself from being outed for some illegal behavior like drug use?

Maybe the girls saw this guy using drugs along the trail and they knew who he was but were not close friends with him and he was worried that they would tell his parents that they saw him using drugs when they were out on the trail?

The guy could have been out on Deer Creek to go target shooting and get high and they happened to run into him. He could have been angry and frustrated for other things in his life and took his anger out on the girls.

I tend to believe these were not sexually motivated murders at this point only because they seem not to have any significant DNA to work with. If they did have good DNA, they would have gone the familial DNA route well before now.

Maybe someone can comment if the area along Deer Creek is used for target shooting at times by locals.
 
Ok so if BG is currently 18-40 and lived in or worked in Delphi then let's look at the bottom end of that scale. Aged 18 now and lived in Delphi, lives elsewhere now is pretty specific especially when tied to the NBG sketch. This would be someone from Delphi HS. It has to be that, as the pupils were all off that day. If it was not someone from the HS, why has LE got such a young age in the range along with a young sketch?
AJMO
Yes the 18-40 range is perplexing. It must be tied to the DNA tested. I believe that whole "DNA testing research" the sheriff talked about in the January 2019 article was only able to narrow the suspects to a family, which have male members who all may favor the last sketch and/or video in some ways. Enough to not know for certain, as of the April PC, which member is BG. It's the only thing that makes sense to me as to why the 22 yr span in the description.

Sheriff's article:
Cops Send Evidence To FBI In Indiana Teens Abigail Williams & Liberty German’s Murder
 
Yes the 18-40 range is perplexing. It must be tied to the DNA tested. I believe that whole "DNA testing research" the sheriff talked about in the January 2019 article was only able to narrow the suspects to a family, which have male members who all may favor the last sketch and/or video in some ways. Enough to not know for certain, as of the April PC, which member is BG. It's the only thing that makes sense to me as to why the 22 yr span in the description.

Sheriff's article:
Cops Send Evidence To FBI In Indiana Teens Abigail Williams & Liberty German’s Murder
I would agree except for the fact they have ruled out the OBG sketch as a POI so he has to be the young end of the age range.
 
What if the Delphi murders were not sexually motivated and were the actions of a person that was trying to protect himself from being outed for some illegal behavior like drug use?

Maybe the girls saw this guy using drugs along the trail and they knew who he was but were not close friends with him and he was worried that they would tell his parents that they saw him using drugs when they were out on the trail?

If we go with the girls seeing some illegal behavior, I'd be more inclined to believe it was something of a sexual nature that they witnessed.

And, that could well be the reason that we have sketches of two different guys.
 
Upstream recently there has been discussion about rage towards women, how they take can take it out on others, I believe it was a post from @Yemelyan in response to my post about the MacDonald Triad...

Anyway I just a Forensic Files rerun, iirc it was about the I-65 Killer in Florida (?) who was a cop...he had rage towards his wife/ex wife (I was half asleep, sorry didn’t get many details.) It was mentioned that during one of the assaults, he was literally saying his wife’s name out loud..something like that. Anyway, just wanted to mention that, that the killer on that show was literally manifesting other rage and it reminded me of that post here.

I think chances are fair he may have charges for DV, moo. Now whether or not those were dropped if they did occur...
@margarita25, Was that FF rerun about Gerard Schaefer? Think I saw it too. He has a thread here.
FL - FL - GERARD SCHAEFER -- How Many Victims?
That guy had also no problem with taking two victims at the same time.
 
Interesting. Probably too late for the Delphi case, but who knows?

Company claims M-Vac DNA technology could help in Lecornu case

"The M-Vac is a forensics time machine that takes detectives back to the moment when a murder or other violent crime took place and reveals whether the killer left their DNA behind on rough and porous surfaces."
M-Vac was discussed in the McStay family murder trial to look at DNA from the graves, the technique discussed at length IIRC. So glad THAT one ended with a Guilty! :mad:
 
@margarita25, Was that FF rerun about Gerard Schaefer? Think I saw it too. He has a thread here.
FL - FL - GERARD SCHAEFER -- How Many Victims?
That guy had also no problem with taking two victims at the same time.

Woah, look at all these “pairs” of victims!! :eek: (I’m still reading to see if it’s the same killer I saw on FF.) Thanks for the link. It looks like he took souvenirs; also note his victim age preference varies from young to older, as well as single to double victims. THIS imo is the type of suspect we’re looking for.

Shadow205 said:
This homicidal Martin County, Florida, deputy sheriff, though convicted in 1973 of only two mutilation murders, is believed to be responsible for at least thirty killings. A sadistic sex-beast by nature, Schaefer would lure young women off the roads with the help of his badge to torture, mutilate and murder. He enjoyed tying his victims to trees and leaving them there while he went to work as a police officer. Teeth, jewelry identification papers from several missing young women were found in a closet in his mother's house in Ft. Lauderdale

These are the victims that I can find linked to Schaefer:

-17-year-old Susan Place and 16-year-old Georgia Jessup had vanished from Fort
Lauderdale.On April 1, 1973, hikers found human bones near Blind Creek, on Hutchinson Island. The
two teenage victims were identified by dental records on April 5. Susan had been shot in the jaw. The
crime scene indicated the girls were “tied to a tree and butchered.” Based on the M.O. and Lucille
Place’s testimony, Schaefer was the only suspect in the case.Police searched Schaefer’s mother’s
home on April 7. The objects seized from his room included: a purse owned by Susan Place (Schaefer was convicted of these 2 murders)

Leigh Hainline Bonadies. Bonadies was last seen on September 8, 1969 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Gerard John Schaefer was
named as the prime suspect in Bonadies' disappearance when authorities found her gold locket in
Schaefer's possession at the time of his arrest in the 1970's. Schaefer was never charged in
connection with Bonadies' case. Bonadies' remains were found in the subdivision of Boca Del Mar
which was under construction at the time in Boca Raton, FL in January 1978. She was positively
identified in 2004
.

The next to vanish from Broward County was Carmen Marie Hallock, a 22-year-old cocktail waitress.
When Schaefer’s stash of souvenirs was seized in 1973, police recovered two of Hallock’s gold-filled
teeth and a shamrock pin identified by her family. Her body has never been found.

Belinda Hutchens was another 22-year-old cocktail waitress On January 5, 1972. In 1973, the search of Doris Schaefer’s home revealed an address book
containing the name, address and phone number of Belinda’s husband. No other trace of her was found,
no charges were ever filed.

At some point, Schaefer tired of killing victims singly. “Doing doubles,” he later wrote, “is far more
difficult than doing singles, but on the other hand it also puts one in a position to have twice as much
fun. There can be some lively discussions about which of the victims will get to be killed first.
We cannot know when Schaefer started “doing doubles.” Seven years after the fact, his name was
linked to the disappearance of 21-year-old Nancy Leichner and 20-year-old Pamela Nater, Pinellas
County residents who vanished on a 1966 picnic in the Ocala National Forest. The case remains
unsolved and both women are still missing.


A better case exists for Schaefer’s involvement in the murders of 9-year-old Peggy Rahn and
8-year-old Wendy Stevenson, in Pompano Beach. Both vanished from the beach on December 29,
1970. The girls remain missing
and Schaefer was never charged, though prosecutors publicly accused him of the crime in 1973.
Schaefer denied the slayings publicly, but later confessed in a letter dated April 19, 1989.

19-year-old Iowa residents Collette Goodenough and
Barbara Ann Wilcox left Biloxi, Mississippi, hitchhiking to Florida. No trace of either girl was seen
until April, when searchers found evidence of their fate in Schaefer’s stash. Among the items retrieved
were Barbara’s driver’s license, along with Collette’s passport, diary and a book of poems. Skeletal
remains of both victims were found at Port Saint Lucie in January 1977, but no cause of death could
be found and no charges were ever filed.

October 23, 14-year-olds Mary Alice
Briscolina and Elsie Lina Farmer
were added to the missing list Farmer’s skeletal remains were found on January 17, 1973 (eight days after Schaefer went to jail), at
a construction site near Plantation High School. Briscolina was found on February 15, 200 yards
away. (Both girls were identified by dental records.) Following the April search of Doris Schaefer’s
home, Farmer’s relatives identified a piece of jewelry taken from the murdered girl.Schaefer was never charged with those murders, but he later admitted the crimes, in a letter referring
to one of his published stories, titled “Murder Demons.”

On Sunday, December 3, prison guards found Schaefer slaughtered in his cell. His throat was
slashed and he had been stabbed 42 times around his head and neck.
Schaefer was serving time for the murders of Susan Place & Georgia Jessup.


I have listed 13 victims of Schaefer. I have been reading about his crimes for years and have more information but was trying to shorten the post as much as possible. He claims to have commited murders all over the United States and even in other countries while traveling. How many unsolved cases are out there that may have been commited by him? I will try to put together information on his MO and post it.


—-

ETA / Look at this case:
Webb: The I-65 Killer: An Indiana /
Kentucky serial killer still runs loose

May 4, 2018

“He’s one of several serial killers across the U.S. who, despite DNA evidence and fiery media scrutiny, commit atrocious acts and somehow fold back into society. They live as secret monsters next door. Most of them die without ever being caught, leaving their victims’ families to spend their lives ravaged with worry and haunted by injustice, robbed of even the sliver of payback earned when the beast who stole their loved one gets dragged off to jail.“

Snip

“Detectives are exploring the possibility that they are looking for a truck driver or traveling salesman who would have been traveling the I-65 corridor in the late 1980s or early 1990s,” Elizabethtown police say. “He would now be somewhere between the age of 55 and 65.”

If you have information on any of the cases listed above, you can call ISP at 1-800-552-8917 or Elizabethtown police at 1-800-597-8123.”
 
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What if the Delphi murders were not sexually motivated and were the actions of a person that was trying to protect himself from being outed for some illegal behavior like drug use?

Maybe the girls saw this guy using drugs along the trail and they knew who he was but were not close friends with him and he was worried that they would tell his parents that they saw him using drugs when they were out on the trail?

The guy could have been out on Deer Creek to go target shooting and get high and they happened to run into him. He could have been angry and frustrated for other things in his life and took his anger out on the girls.

I tend to believe these were not sexually motivated murders at this point only because they seem not to have any significant DNA to work with. If they did have good DNA, they would have gone the familial DNA route well before now.

Maybe someone can comment if the area along Deer Creek is used for target shooting at times by locals.

It's possible he didn't sexually assault them to leave DNA but it was still sexually motivated. As discussed a few days ago there's some sexual sadists who can't "perform" and get off on violence or even leaving out performance there's some that just get off on violence, he also may have decided not to sexually assault them because he was conscious of leaving DNA. Also we don't know if they have significant DNA or not, the familial route may have failed to yield any good suspects, who knows.

Your scenario is definitely possible though, i just personally don't believe he is that young.
 
Woah, look at all these “pairs” of victims!! :eek: (I’m still reading to see if it’s the same killer I saw on FF.) Thanks for the link. It looks like he took souvenirs; also note his victim age preference varies from young to older, as well as single to double victims. THIS imo is the type of suspect we’re looking for.

Edmund Kemper is another Serial Killer who killed pairs of victims, two different pairs to be specific i think his case gives us an idea of compliance under threat that could be useful as he gave very detailed confessions, one of his victims unlocked his car for him even after he had violently threatened her. Well according to him anyway. His victims ranged from 15-59 (not including his grandparents), although the two 50 year olds were his mother and mothers friend his stranger victims were young hitchhikers.
 
You know what I just can't understand? If they couldn't get either girl on their phones then WHY did they give up the search that night. Obviously, if they weren't answering the phone something was wrong. Why didn't they get helicopters with flood lights or just flood lights. It is weird to me.
Two young girls missing at night, no answering phone...OK, don't worry we will pick it up in the morning.

Also at the press conference didn't the guy doing the talking say they had a wittness?? I think I remember him saying, you made a mistake, we have a wittness.

I believe the supposition would have been that they drowned (along with their phones being underwater and dead) and that the search would resume when there was daylight. I think I saw someone post that the next day when the search resumed that most of the search teams were sent down river along the banks and a couple were sent up river... which is close to where the bodies were found.

I think calling off the search may have been the logical thing to do given the rickety bridge and no phone reply...assuming they had fallen off the bridge and had been swept downstream. From that height, nobody would likely survive a fall.

Hindsight is 20-20. Just my opinion though.
 
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M-Vac was discussed in the McStay family murder trial to look at DNA from the graves, the technique discussed at length IIRC. So glad THAT one ended with a Guilty! :mad:
Maybe not too late for their clothes. Even if the killer wore gloves, he still could have left DNA by touching their clothes. Even just his clothes touching their clothes could lead to recovered DNA with this machine. Fascinating the leaps DNA research has taken in a very short period of time. I pray it helps catch this murderous scum and many many more.
 
It's possible he didn't sexually assault them to leave DNA but it was still sexually motivated. As discussed a few days ago there's some sexual sadists who can't "perform" and get off on violence or even leaving out performance there's some that just get off on violence, he also may have decided not to sexually assault them because he was conscious of leaving DNA. Also we don't know if they have significant DNA or not, the familial route may have failed to yield any good suspects, who knows.

Your scenario is definitely possible though, i just personally don't believe he is that young.

Statistically, he is likely at least in his mid twenties but that does not mean that a guy in his mid twenties would not want his parents to learn about his illegal activity especially if his family was frustrated with prior substance abuse activity and other misbehavior.
 
So 22 years younger?
Would be interested to know how old everyone thinks NBG is from that sketch?

ETA when they said may appear younger than he is, could he be 55 but look 40? It is really not helpful, is it?

When I was in my late 30's I was still getting carted and drinking age was still 18 at the time. My late 60's GP is an Irishman who looks like he's in his late twenties except for his bushy white hair. Some people just don't look their age.
 
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I feel like the sketch ordeal is what is throwing many people off.
It’s been awfully quiet about their case since the last presser. I wonder if they are honestly any closer to solving this mess of a case. Those poor girls. How are we supposed to believe that this isn’t a SK in the works? I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if we found out he’s committed other cruel crimes. I just don’t know how LE can say that they don’t think this is a SK when they obviously have no idea what they are dealing with.
 
This is directed to those who live in Delphi or anyone who is in a position to know.

What department has the lead in this case (in charge)? What other departments are assisting. By “assisting” I mean detectives who do nothing else but work on the case.
How many detectives are on the task force and where is the command post?
 
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