Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[Cleaver Greene]

Can someone summarise the witnesses for the last few days of the inquest before it was adjourned? I haven’t been following the witness list. Was KC the last witness and has she been excused?

 

[JLZ]

Can someone summarise the witnesses for the last few days of the inquest before it was adjourned? I haven’t been following the witness list. Was KC the last witness and has she been excused?

This was one explanation put forward for the adjournment:

The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Ms Grahame and Mr Craddock agreed on the need for the forensic examination of the photograph.
Mystery over last photo of William Tyrrell

 

[SouthAussie]

Can someone summarise the witnesses for the last few days of the inquest before it was adjourned? I haven’t been following the witness list. Was KC the last witness and has she been excused?

While the inquest was ongoing, police were suddenly and busily searching areas near where Frank Abbott (and Geoff Owen) used to live - an old sawmill near Herons Creek Road and Logan’s Crossing.

Geoff Owen had given part of his evidence, then he was stood down from the stand, with the Coroner stating that he would be recalled later.

An evidence bag was seen being taken from the Herons Creek search site.

It could be that forensic testing is required, then Geoff Owen will be recalled. imo

Sawmill combed by police as William Tyrrell inquest continues

 

[Cleaver Greene]

This was one explanation put forward for the adjournment:

The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Ms Grahame and Mr Craddock agreed on the need for the forensic examination of the photograph.
Mystery over last photo of William Tyrrell

That makes sense. The lengthy adjournment would likely be because that is the first time that the Coroner and all the lawyers are available again. The longer the hearing, the harder it is to co-ordinate everyone’s availability.

It’s surprising that everyone assumed that the time stamp was accurate without verifying this. Counsel assisting asserted the time as fact. Things like police communication logs (when people call police) and even mobile phone records are accurate timewise. But a time stamp on a photo is linked only to that camera and can be inaccurate for several reasons; Factory settings, kids mucking around with the camera etc. I don’t have the foggiest idea what the time stamp on my phone camera is, or whether it is even accurate.

 

[SouthAussie]

That makes sense. The lengthy adjournment would likely be because that is the first time that the Coroner and all the lawyers are available again. The longer the hearing, the harder it is to co-ordinate everyone’s availability.

You may wish to note that the inquest was suddenly suspended on the day after a full day of the inquest suddenly not (publicly) hearing any witnesses ... not closed court, just the Coroner saying they would resume on the Wednesday.

Aug 22 - Geoff Owen (in Taree)
Aug 25 - Margaret Spedding (in Sydney)
Aug 25 - Bill Spedding
Aug 26 - no testimony (publicly) heard
Aug 27 - Ronald Chapman
Aug 27 - Katrina Cherry
Aug 27 - inquest suddenly suspended

Lia Harris‏Verified account @LiaJHarris Aug 27
Counsel assisting Gerard Craddock SC just told the court the inquest will be suspended now and resume in March 2020... taking a six month break between hearings. @10NewsFirst

Lia Harris‏Verified account @LiaJHarris Aug 27
The coroner told the court she understood it “will be frustrating for some” but there are “reasons for it”. It will resume in Taree on March 9, 2020. @10NewsFirsthttps://twitter.com/10Daily

 

[SLouTh]

Regarding Katrina Cherry’s evidence...

Katrina Cherry was only in the witness stand for 10 mins ... I cant find if she has been excused or just “dismissed” and asked to resume later??
Is “dismissed “ the correct term in this instance ?

There is no where that I can find as to when the actual request for the photo data was made .. eg time that day ...
It was all over by 2:30pm

Doc Sleuth May know when in that day’s proceedings Bio Lawyers asked for the photo to be investigated??

 

[SLouTh]

I have looked into Laura Beacroft a little more. As well as working in the Child Abuse and Sex Crimes Squad before joining William's case, and as well as being a police forensic profiler, in 2012 she worked with the Australian Institute of Criminology as Research Manager for the Trafficking in Persons Research Program.

This link can be input and a pdf file will open:
View attachment 206481

Also referenced here in this article about 'human trafficking and slavery offenders in Australia'
Human trafficking and slavery offenders in Australia

Detectives from the Sex Crimes Squad were there from the beginning also ...
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015...line-follows-disappearance-of-nsw-boy/6274088

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Regarding Katrina Cherry’s evidence...

Katrina Cherry was only in the witness stand for 10 mins ... I cant find if she has been excused or just “dismissed” and asked to resume later??
Is “dismissed “ the correct term in this instance ?

There is no where that I can find as to when the actual request for the photo data was made .. eg time that day ...
It was all over by 2:30pm

Doc Sleuth May know when in that day’s proceedings Bio Lawyers asked for the photo to be investigated??

The timeblock on the photo was probably enough for an adjournment. But if there were other witnesses lined up whose evidence isn’t affected by the time issue, the Coroner would probably want to get that evidence out of the way. The Coroner would have used up as much time as possible until it got to a point that they couldn’t go any further until they have investigated whatever the need for the adjournment was about.

 

[SouthAussie]

IIRC there is a link here somewhere back in the threads where the Coroner said to BF lawyer (who applied for the time stamp to be looked at) ... yes, yes, I understand you have an application, we'll get to that. Or words to that effect.

drsleuth posted back in the threads that BF was surrounded by a group of women who seemed disruptive to the proceedings. As well, many a good reason has been given for the time stamp discrepancy. Not by us, but by experts in the media. The Coroner is simply verifying that for herself. imo

I don't think the postponement is about the time stamp.

 

[SLouTh]

The timeblock on the photo was probably enough for an adjournment. But if there were other witnesses lined up whose evidence isn’t affected by the time issue, the Coroner would probably want to get that evidence out of the way. The Coroner would have used up as much time as possible until it got to a point that they couldn’t go any further until they have investigated whatever the need for the adjournment was about.

Thanks Cleaver you raise a very good point about other evidence regarding the time line issue .... I hadn’t thought of it like that ... Thanks again for your input .. really appreciate it! Love learning about the process!

 

[Karinna]

(quote)
“The focus of the inquest at this stage is on seeking to gather evidence which may produce an answer to the question — What has become of William?,” he said.

“In due course, it may be that there comes a time when it may be appropriate to look at the investigation and the decisions made and whether there were adequate resources assigned and all of those sorts of things but that is really for the future.”

Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame agreed, saying it wasn’t time for a “piecemeal review”.
“My focus is at this point and must remain on finding out what has happened to William,” she said earlier this month.

“That is my primary focus and my greatest hope.

“It is not the time for trying to discover on a piecemeal basis if the investigation went down a wrong track at any time ... because we are still investigating which tracks are possible.”

The inquest was adjourned on Wednesday.

It’s due to resume for two weeks in Taree from March 9, 2020.

“I understand that is frustrating for some, there are reasons for it,” the coroner said.

Missing toddler inquest adjourned until 2020

 

[drsleuth]

Regarding Katrina Cherry’s evidence...

Katrina Cherry was only in the witness stand for 10 mins ... I cant find if she has been excused or just “dismissed” and asked to resume later??
Is “dismissed “ the correct term in this instance ?

There is no where that I can find as to when the actual request for the photo data was made .. eg time that day ...
It was all over by 2:30pm

Doc Sleuth May know when in that day’s proceedings Bio Lawyers asked for the photo to be investigated??

Katrina had completed her evidence. It was known that Swift had wanted to make an application for days ( it was not known about what ) & than the court was adjourned . Swifts application re the photo timestamp was obviously made after the court adjourned. It was not reported on in the media until 2/9/19 ( court adjourned on Wed 28/8/19)

The court was suddenly adjourned ( there were dates lined up to go back to Taree in the beginning of November ) ..........

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Katrina had completed her evidence. It was known that Swift had wanted to make an application for days ( it was not known about what ) & than the court was adjourned . Swifts application re the photo timestamp was obviously made after the court adjourned. It was not reported on in the media until 2/9/19 ( court adjourned on Wed 28/8/19)

The court was suddenly adjourned ( there were dates lined up to go back to Taree in the beginning of November ) ..........

Thanks for that. Do we know for certain that Swift’s application was in relation to the time stamp? I mean, did she say she wanted to make an application immediately after hearing evidence about the time stamp?

Often we need to look at what happened immediately before applications are made.

 

[SouthAussie]

August 28th ... the day after the inquest was postponed.


In the extract, from August 28, the counsel assisting the coroner, Gerard Craddock, told the court: “I’ve just been reminded there was going to be an application by Ms (Michelle) Swift (who represents William’s biological father) today. We’re not going to deal with that today because we need to obtain some further evidence which will relate to that application.”

The coroner, Harriet Grahame, replied: “Yes, I think it’s important that that’s dealt with in detail, and we do need that further statement. It’s important.”
Ms Swift then said: “Certainly … and if I can park that application until later.”

Ms Grahame interjected: “I’m aware of what the application is. I think it’s important we’re pursuing it, and we’ll come back to it.”
Mr Craddock then said: “We’re going to be obtaining some expert evidence that’s going to deal with that issue, amongst other things.”

The photograph is a key piece of evidence because it provides “proof of life” for William on the day of his disappearance.

NoCookies | The Australian - September 3, 2019

 

[JLZ]

deleted

 

[SouthAussie]

Thread 45 is filled with time stamp discussion, for those who want to go back and look at the posted links etc.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #45

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks for that. Do we know for certain that Swift’s application was in relation to the time stamp? I mean, did she say she wanted to make an application immediately after hearing evidence about the time stamp?

Often we need to look at what happened immediately before applications are made.

Of course we don't know for certain unless you are party to the proceedings or have access to someone who is part of the proceedings.

The Australian reported that ( from a reporter close to the Bio family & other "advocates" that have attached themselves to the Bio family ) the application was made in open court prior to the adjournment.

The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Mystery over last photo of William Tyrrell

This is incorrect. The application was mentioned ( but no content ) in open court on the last day & the coroner said that she would deal with that, which she did.


Ms Swift’s application was made in open court shortly before the inquest was suddenly adjourned for seven months. The subject matter wasn’t revealed, and Ms Swift refused to comment. However, Ms Grahame responded to the application by saying the matter needed investigation, and Mr Craddock agreed it was important. Police have been unable to provide the court with an explanation for this terminology, which has in turn created uncertainty.

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks for that. Do we know for certain that Swift’s application was in relation to the time stamp? I mean, did she say she wanted to make an application immediately after hearing evidence about the time stamp?

Often we need to look at what happened immediately before applications are made.

The time stamp "investigation" was never mentioned in open court...........

I see you added to your original post whilst I was replying........

 

[SouthAussie]

Of course we don't know for certain unless you are party to the proceedings or have access to someone who is part of the proceedings.

The Australian reported that ( from a reporter close to the Bio family & other "advocates" that have attached themselves to the Bio family ) the application was made in open court prior to the adjournment.

The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Mystery over last photo of William Tyrrell

This is incorrect. The application was mentioned ( but no content ) in open court on the last day & the coroner said that she would deal with that, which she did.


Ms Swift’s application was made in open court shortly before the inquest was suddenly adjourned for seven months. The subject matter wasn’t revealed, and Ms Swift refused to comment. However, Ms Grahame responded to the application by saying the matter needed investigation, and Mr Craddock agreed it was important. Police have been unable to provide the court with an explanation for this terminology, which has in turn created uncertainty.

NoCookies | The Australian

BBM: The link that I posted above alludes to the probable fact that the extract about the time stamp application by Swift was dated August 28th ... the day after the inquest was postponed.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

deleted