Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[Cleaver Greene]

The time stamp "investigation" was never mentioned in open court...........

I see you added to your original post whilst I was replying........

Yeah, after I posted my comment, I re-read your post and saw that you had answered something I was asking.

 

[drsleuth]

I may be misinterpreting the wink face, but IF that’s a suggestion that I’m involved in the case, I’m not. The mods have verified me as a lawyer, not an insider. And It would be a complete breach of the Legal Practitioner Conduct Rules to come on a forum and talk about information that I know through legal privilege. It would be career ending.

Yes you are misinterpreting the wink face. I was was not suggesting you are involved in any way & I certainly understand that that would be a huge breach of your professional standards.

I was merely suggesting that only the legal team involved would know the answer to your question as it was not discussed in open court.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Yes you are misinterpreting the wink face. I was was not suggesting you are involved in any way & I certainly understand that that would be a huge breach of your professional standards.

I was merely suggesting that only the legal team involved would know the answer to your question as it was not discussed in open court.

No worries. I’ll delete my post.

 

[JLZ]

IIRC there is a link here somewhere back in the threads where the Coroner said to BF lawyer (who applied for the time stamp to be looked at) ... yes, yes, I understand you have an application, we'll get to that. Or words to that effect.

drsleuth posted back in the threads that BF was surrounded by a group of women who seemed disruptive to the proceedings. As well, many a good reason has been given for the time stamp discrepancy. Not by us, but by experts in the media. The Coroner is simply verifying that for herself. imo

I don't think the postponement is about the time stamp.

BBM. I suggest that what needs to be investigated is not so much the reason for the discrepancy but whether the corrected time is exactly correct.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

The time stamp "investigation" was never mentioned in open court............

Were there times that the public had to leave but the media were allowed to remain?

Sometimes if evidence is suppressed, the media are allowed to stay in court under threat of contempt if they publish suppressed information. If the public are allowed to hear that evidence, then the court has no control over whether it is “published”.

I guess what I’m wondering is how the media were able to publish the time stamp application if it was never mentioned in open court.

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM. I suggest that what needs to be investigated is not so much the reason for the discrepancy but whether the corrected time is exactly correct.

Yes, I can see that the Coroner would want to know the reasons for the discrepancy. It may not have been outlined clearly in the police brief. It seems they wanted to obtain 'a statement' about that - perhaps a statement that had already been produced by experts and was not included in the brief.


The coroner, Harriet Grahame, replied: “Yes, I think it’s important that that’s dealt with in detail, and we do need that further statement. It’s important.”
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

 

[Cleaver Greene]

BBM. I suggest that what needs to be investigated is not so much the reason for the discrepancy but whether the corrected time is exactly correct.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The accuracy of the time stamp is critical. If it is wrong, then the entire investigation could have been based on an incorrect window of opportunity.

It’s a pretty damning oversight. The fact that counsel assisting wasn’t able to categorically state that the time on the photo had been independently verified, suggests that it was just assumed to be correct.

That’s assuming that the adjournment was to confirm the accuracy of the datablock. There may have been a development in the investigation that was never raised in court. If there was a development, police could make an application in closed court without the other parties, and the Coroner could agree that the inquest needs to be adjourned. The other parties don’t need to be advised of the reasons. They just have to accept that the Coroner has found a good reason to adjourn the inquest.

 

[drsleuth]

Were there times that the public had to leave but the media were allowed to remain?

Sometimes if evidence is suppressed, the media are allowed to stay in court under threat of contempt if they publish suppressed information. If the public are allowed to hear that evidence, then the court has no control over whether it is “published”.

I guess what I’m wondering is how the media were able to publish the time stamp application if it was never mentioned in open court.

No. My guess is that the Australian journo ( CO ) got the information from the Bio family or their "advocates" who seemed to have access to parts of the brief & were obviously disclosing information to her.

 

[SouthAussie]

Were there times that the public had to leave but the media were allowed to remain?

Sometimes if evidence is suppressed, the media are allowed to stay in court under threat of contempt if they publish suppressed information. If the public are allowed to hear that evidence, then the court has no control over whether it is “published”.

I guess what I’m wondering is how the media were able to publish the time stamp application if it was never mentioned in open court.

I think drsleuth already answered that directly for you earlier in the thread? Post #968.
drsleuth also reported that info was suppressed in their presence, if you read back over several threads about the inquest you will be able to take in all of the past discussion.

BBM:
We weren't told why the court was closed every time ( & there was alot IMO ) we were just told that there now needed to be closed court & we were all herded in & out like browns cows

I assume it was CA & the coroner who wanted the court closed most times as other legal teams were locked out also.

Court was obviously closed for a good reason & I do support that if it leads to finding out what happened to poor William, as frustrating as it was for everyone , as long as the coroner is hearing all the evidence I'm ok with that

The media made submissions against closed court of course , but never "won" any...............

 

[Karinna]

BBM. I suggest that what needs to be investigated is not so much the reason for the discrepancy but whether the corrected time is exactly correct.

I wonder who changed it? If someone uploads photos from a digital camera to a computer and prints the photos would the timestamp change because of the computer's print out and automatically correct the time?

 

[purpleandgreen]

No. My guess is that the Australian journo ( CO ) got the information from the Bio family or their "advocates" who seemed to have access to parts of the brief & were obviously disclosing information to her.

If so, is she breaching suppression orders? (Asking out of curiosity).

 

[Cleaver Greene]

I wonder who changed it? If someone uploads photos from a digital camera to a computer and prints the photos would the timestamp change because of the computer's print out and automatically correct the time?

It may not have been changed by anyone. Could be a glitch in the phone or factory settings.

 

[JLZ]

I wonder who changed it? If someone uploads photos from a digital camera to a computer and prints the photos would the timestamp change because of the computer's print out and automatically correct the time?

I am assuming that the times are not printouts but part of the digital file.

I think computer times can be wrong. I know the date can be altered because I have had to change the date temporarily in order to allow a fix to take effect. If a computer's time had gotten wrong it might remain wrong if it was not internet connected meanwhile.

 

[Loxoli]

While the inquest was ongoing, police were suddenly and busily searching areas near where Frank Abbott (and Geoff Owen) used to live - an old sawmill near Herons Creek Road and Logan’s Crossing.

Geoff Owen had given part of his evidence, then he was stood down from the stand, with the Coroner stating that he would be recalled later.

An evidence bag was seen being taken from the Herons Creek search site.

It could be that forensic testing is required, then Geoff Owen will be recalled. imo

Sawmill combed by police as William Tyrrell inquest continues

Honestly, my gut feeling is that the adjournment was more to do with all this that was happening behind the scenes than the time stamp.

 

[Karinna]

It may not have been changed by anyone. Could be a glitch in the phone or factory settings.

Thanks for your reply. As you can tell i'm not very tech. savvy, LOL.

 

[JLZ]

The judge would disregard the evidence of that witness.

But in a jury situation. Would the judge tell the jury to disregard the person's evidence? Or caution them about it? Or would the judge form the opinion before the jury heard from the witness and prevent the witness from appearing at all?

 

[Karinna]

I am assuming that the times are not printouts but part of the digital file.

I think computer times can be wrong. I know the date can be altered because I have had to change the date temporarily in order to allow a fix to take effect. If a computer's time had gotten wrong it might remain wrong if it was not internet connected meanwhile.

Thanks JLZ. I know EXIF data can be easily changed from another case i have previously followed, but can't remember all the techy stuff about it.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

But in a jury situation. Would the judge tell the jury to disregard the person's evidence? Or caution them about it? Or would the judge form the opinion before the jury heard from the witness and prevent the witness from appearing at all?

In a jury trial, at the close of the case, the judge gives a number of directions. When a verdict is appealed, it is usually on the basis that the judge erred in directions given to the jury. The judge might highlight those inconsistencies (which have no doubt already been highlighted by the relevant party). The judge will then summarise caselaw about credibility and what the jury can and cannot do. It all depends on the inconsistency.

I don’t think a judge would direct a jury to disregard a witness’ evidence. They would leave that to the jury. I did a trial last year where the judge in summing up, told the jury that a witness lied. That’s a pretty extreme thing for a judge to say (although true and the jury knew anyway).

I’ve never heard of a judge not allowing a witness to give evidence because their credibility is in issue. Having that unfold during evidence is very embarrassing and it would be nuts for a party to call a witness whose credibility will be destroyed on the stand.

 

[Wexford]

Honestly, my gut feeling is that the adjournment was more to do with all this that was happening behind the scenes than the time stamp.

Agree. I think some new evidence has been discovered.

 

[Wexford]

It may not have been changed by anyone. Could be a glitch in the phone or factory settings.

If bought overseas, say duty free, it could be set on a different timezone. If the date is still correct some may not bother to change the time. I use mine all the time and I know the date is correct but the time....I couldn't tell you.