GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

[MyBelle]

If AG was in "shock", how come she had the wherewithal to text her BF?

Can't put even a blanket, pillow, towel, whatever else is available to stop bleeding? But can sit back and send text messages?

I am not a trained police officer, But as a teacher, I was in a situation that happened so fast, it was crazy. I won't go into details, but I had two students bleeding and 22 others crying, screaming, or in shock. I took off my shirt to make a pressure bandage for one student. Called 911. I didn't even talk to the operator, told him the address and we needed ambulance and police officers.

That is what an "untrained" response looks like.

The big difference is that you truly cared about the victims. I think AG is incapable of empathy.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

That was what I was originally saying but, given what Catmammy said and the prosecution emphasis that he was alive while she was in the room, it sounds like she should not have attempted CPR at all (because, according to Catmammy, you do not do CPR on a beating heart). But, yes, during the questioning of AG, it bothered me as the prosecutor focused on CPR and I just kept thinking that, with a chest wound, that would just expedite bleeding out which would have insured his death. It was a factual issue that bothered me.

The reason I leave this to the jury (among others) is that I once had my little boy fall in a lake in front of me at 3 years old. We were fishing. He was right there with me and I am a very protective mama. When he fell in, I froze. I had never felt anything like it in my life. I would give my life for my child and be glad to do it yet my husband had to physically shove me out of the way to jump in and save him. I still do not understand why I experienced that and did nothing to help my son.

Before everyone responds that I was not sexting at the time (before or after), I, too, wish every life saving measure had been taken at the scene. I also thought the call was weird that the dispatcher did not ask if he was alive or dead. Maybe she understood he was alive by the fact that AG wanted EMS too. I do not know.

I am saddened no actions were taken. I do understand also that shock is an overpowering experience where people, like me when my son fell in, do not act according to training.

I do not like the actions afterward. I do think they are something the jury will consider but, for me, it does not go to reasonableness at the time.

Also, at a ccw class, they warned that if you ever had to shoot someone, you will be in shock and repeat your last thought again and again. So the 21 times of repeating at the apartment makes sense to me.

I also once got into a vehicle at Walmart that wasnt mine. It was extremely similar. If I was ever questioned, I could see a prosecutor saying-

You didnt notice the license plate of another state? The personal effects in the car? The different air freshener? The fact that it was 2 lanes over?

And the truth is - not till after I tried to start it and the key didnt fit. If the key HAD fit, I would have probably driven a block before realizing it. Sad, but true. I would look like an idiot on the stand.

I could go round and round all day long on this. There are many facts both ways and there are many things the defendant herself probably wishes she had done differently. I definitely think she thought it was her apartment but I am grateful I do not have to be the jury to decide on reasonableness.

She wasn't in such shock that she forgot to text her boyfriend. Her body language with legs confidently akimbo as EMS works on Bo Jean and she continues texting, does not evince someone close to being in shock IMO. You froze. That's shock. You didn't go, "Oh well, let me text a friend."

 

[VAgirlatheart]

Now they are saying that the DA is anti cop because he criticized how law enforcement handled this whole investigation.

Isnt it so convenient that when someone is critical on LE, they are assumed anti cop. Why cant you be both? Thankful for the ones who follow the rules, yet for a country that is so fragile right now, it’s even more important that we hold the ones accountable who need to be held accountable

 

[Wishbone]

The one big difference: She was a trained and, for all intents and purposes, a veteran officer. 4 years in, you're past being a rookie and you've learned to deal with the adrenaline spike and shock of an encounter. Sure, she hadn't shot someone before, but I'm sure she's dealt with a shooting victim in the prior 4 years with Dallas.

One of the things that is drilled in at the Academy is that if you are ever on-trial . . . "I was trained," "It was my training," or "In training, we" . . . . statements I have not heard from AG throughout. I realize the FOP isn't providing her attorney, but it's so odd not to have her rely on her training and instead answer on the stand as if she's an untrained civilian who has never been exposed to blood. It's mind-boggling.

She previously shot a man in the stomach. If she didn't administer aid herself, I would imagine she saw it being done.

 

[gitana1]

The 911 call was out long before this trial
She said “ get up man” at very beginning.
Uncensored 911 call released: What Amber Guyger said after shooting Botham Jean
So when they played the body cam of responding officers at trial
Officer Lee calling him Chief ...”Chief , hey can you hear me?”
I hope Bo heard that.

MOO

You know I'm not concerned that she called him bud or guy. I'm concerned that her entire focus was on saving her own rear. It was all about "I'm effed. I thought. I'm going to lose my job. I'm an off duty police officer." I, I, I.

I'm not trained and when my friend died in my home I knew darn well to describe his condition, discuss what he had been doing, how he looked, determine if he was breathing, had a pulse. It was all about him.

I mean I understand that I hadn't accidentally kill him but I think that would've made me even more focused on his condition and trying to keep him alive.

Everything about why she shot him and how, how she reacted immediately after and how she continued to react in the days after (joking, talking about getting drunk and texting her affair for fun, a mere two days later), evidence a very self-involved, uncaring, unprofessional and immature human being.

At some point, "well, maybe CPR would've killed him", "well, maybe she was in shock," "well, everyone grieves differently", "well, he was smoking pot", just start to seem like desperate efforts to explain away her behavior, ALL of which seems suspect to me.

Because I think when we have to continue to keep coming up with various excuses for every single thing she did or didn't do, the effort necessarily proves the point.

<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped>

The state seems to be pretty passionate about this case. So far their opening and cross (what I've seen) have been stellar. But admittedly I haven't watched the whole trial.

Forgive me if this has already been brought up.
Were AG's deleted social media posts part of the trial or brought up at all by the prosecution?
Not sure if they were all posted by her or just liked by her, but IMO they show a glimpse into her state of mind and callousness towards another life.

Here's a few snippets for anyone not familiar with more details in the link.

"People are so ungrateful, no one ever thanks me for having the patience not to kill them"

"I wear all black to remind you not to mess with me, because I'm already dressed for your funeral"

"Stay low, go fast, kill first, die last, one shot, one kill, all luck, no skill"

Check Out What Appears To Be Amber Guyger's Pinterest Account

 

[gitana1]

Also while I was at the gym today, something feels really weird about this case. I can’t put my finger on it but it just doesn’t feel right to me. I know the evidence points to her not paying attention to where she was and shooting him. However, my soul is telling me something that I can’t put my finger on. I don’t know if it’s all the lies she’s done said, maybe her previous shooting, the way she conducts herself, the fact that he conveniently had his door unlocked at the same time she was on the wrong floor. I don’t know guys. I can’t shake it. At all. Again, I’m not saying it’s not an accident but just something does not feel right

Her demeanor on the stand may be part of it. She was acting. Poorly. The only time there was a real tear was when she talked about herself. The rest was dramatic sighing and screwing up hr face and "sobbing", while not shedding one tear. I think her social media posts show a person itching to harm others and be "tough". She could be sociopathic.

 

[drama_farmer]

Pardon me as I climb onto the arm of this chair and give y'all my opinion about her psyche at the time of the homicide. . .

I think that her previous experience with the Taser-taking suspect who she shot and only wounded is a narrative she carried with her all of the time. I think she was embarrassed that she let him get the Taser away from her. I think that there was some "teasing" about that by her partner and other cops. . . some good natured and "jocular" and some that really hurt her to the core, and made her feel less-than the image she needed to portray of being a "tough" cop.

I think that her social media posts show a cop who feels anything but confident and capable, a cop who desperately wants to be seen as a tough, no-nonsense, take no prisoners sort of officer. But isn't, of course, and will never be.

I think that ever since that incident, she's been reminding herself (and I'm sure others have brought it up again and again) that, "next time" she won't give "him" a chance to do something like that. That, next time, "he" won't end up just wounded, and able to testify and become a longtime reminder of how "weak" and ineffective she was in that sort of situation again.

I think she felt that she had something to prove to her fellow officers, and was constantly (even subconsciously ) "ready" to use deadly force at her earliest convenience.

IMO and all that

 

[turaj]

This is my 1st post on this case but I live locally & have followed the news & the trial to date. IMHO Guyger had other options. If she truly felt scared & threatened she could have tased Jean or ran out or whatever. I think too many of our police are trigger happy. And I know the Prosecution tried to get some texts of Guyger's admitted but the Judge would not allow, that were in direct conflict with Guyger's persona of "wanting to help people," <modsnip> (The Judge said they would be too prejudicial.) <modsnip> The outcome was doomed from the start. And I'm disappointed in how the Prosecution in this case seems to lack any passion. It's like they're just going thru the motions. I have no doubt that she'll be found not guilty or acquitted. And I think it's a damn shame.

Boy we all see things differently...I feel like the prosecutor is giving this 100%...I have no doubt she will be found guilty of something...hopefully for murder.

 

[mickey2942]

Almost like there is more to this story.

I think that there is a lot more to this story. Starting with the fact that she should have been arrested. Any other person who walked into a stranger's house and killed them, would have definitely been in lock down. Questioned, drug tested immediately, and a search warrant for their home would have been issued, that night. The perpetrator definitely wouldn't have had 48 hours to clean up social media, or time to consult attorneys for the right narrative.

Instead, AG goes home, no questions, gets attorneys paid for, no search warrant for her home. She had text messages on her phone, that are deemed "prejudicial" and not allowed at the trial. Hmm, that doesn't seem to happen to other perpetrators on trial.

There is a lot more to this story.

 

[blue22]

This is my 1st post on this case but I live locally & have followed the news & the trial to date. IMHO Guyger had other options. If she truly felt scared & threatened she could have tased Jean or ran out or whatever. I think too many of our police are trigger happy. And I know the Prosecution tried to get some texts of Guyger's admitted but the Judge would not allow, that were in direct conflict with Guyger's persona of "wanting to help people," <modsnip> (The Judge said they would be too prejudicial.) <modsnip> The outcome was doomed from the start. And I'm disappointed in how the Prosecution in this case seems to lack any passion. It's like they're just going thru the motions. I have no doubt that she'll be found not guilty or acquitted. And I think it's a damn shame.

I am very surprised to hear this about the prosecution. I am local, also. I hear most people being very impressed with the prosecution. I know I am. They have been very passionate and I really don't understand this at all.

<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped>

 

[Rocco]

Boy we all see things differently...I feel like the prosecutor is giving this 100%...I have no doubt she will be found guilty of something...hopefully for murder.

I have no doubt she'll be found guilty too. I also have no doubt that she'll file an appeal and that she won't be getting out on bond while the appeal process is pending.

She's going to prison for years this week. Her testimony last week sealed her fate. MOO

 

[MTW2011]

Anyone else see that the PD searches his apartment for any narcotics or anything else illegal? I’m sure they were really hoping to find something that could help mitigate the looming disaster their department was about to face. Wow.

Why Did Dallas Police Search a Man's Home for 'Narcotics' After One of Their Own Killed Him?

 

[MTW2011]

Anyone else see on the search warrant that was executed for his apartment mentions that he opened the door for her? Very interesting to say the least.

warrant

 

[SoCalDavidS]

What it comes down to, is the jury will be making 1 of 2 possible statements with their decision. They'll either say that it is Wrong and Criminal to walk into someone's home and shoot and kill them for no justifiable reason. Or they'll say that just because you are sitting on your couch at home watching TV and eating ice cream, it is entirely acceptable and allowable under certain circumstances, for someone to walk through your unlocked door and shoot you dead.

 

[mickey2942]

Anyone else see on the search warrant that was executed for his apartment mentions that he opened the door for her? Very interesting to say the least.

warrant

I remember reading this previously, thinking that it was obviously a template used for search warrants on suspects homes. The term, "confronted" is particularly hostile. Botham Jean didn't "confront" anyone. And if he did, he had every right to do so.

 

[ReadyorNot]

Wait it gets better.. the lead investigator in this case, also has killed someone.

You can’t make this up!

You know what is interesting? 10 years ago you ask an officer if they had ever shot or killed someone and the majority would say, "No, and I hope I never have to". Despite violent crime showing a downward trend police shootings have gone up.

For the record, Texas is in 2nd place for the highest rate of people killed by police with 606 kills between 2013-18. That is an average of 121 people per year. Although Texas is the 2nd most populated State (25 Million) you could add up Illinois (12 Million), and New York (19 Million) and both of those States during the same time period only had a combined 319 people killed by police. That is scary!

 

[gitana1]

Pardon me as I climb onto the arm of this chair and give y'all my opinion about her psyche at the time of the homicide. . .

I think that her previous experience with the Taser-taking suspect who she shot and only wounded is a narrative she carried with her all of the time. I think she was embarrassed that she let him get the Taser away from her. I think that there was some "teasing" about that by her partner and other cops. . . some good natured and "jocular" and some that really hurt her to the core, and made her feel less-than the image she needed to portray of being a "tough" cop.

I think that her social media posts show a cop who feels anything but confident and capable, a cop who desperately wants to be seen as a tough, no-nonsense, take no prisoners sort of officer. But isn't, of course, and will never be.

I think that ever since that incident, she's been reminding herself (and I'm sure others have brought it up again and again) that, "next time" she won't give "him" a chance to do something like that. That, next time, "he" won't end up just wounded, and able to testify and become a longtime reminder of how "weak" and ineffective she was in that sort of situation again.

I think she felt that she had something to prove to her fellow officers, and was constantly (even subconsciously ) "ready" to use deadly force at her earliest convenience.

IMO and all that

@drama_farmer that's a really smart analysis. Thank you for sharing. I hadn't thought of that possibility and it makes such perfect sense.

 

[gitana1]

Anyone else see on the search warrant that was executed for his apartment mentions that he opened the door for her? Very interesting to say the least.

warrant

Wow!!

 

[grammieto5]

I'm a bit confused, the victim was killed on Sept.6 2018, AG was arrested on Sept. 9 2018, trial started on I think Sept. 23, 2019. When did she go on a cruise?

 

[ReadyorNot]

To everyone above, as an attorney, fact issues bother me. I understand the prosecution and defense. I have also lost a child and have friends who knew and dearly loved the victim. I cannot compare my loss to the family and friends of Botham at all and I am not making excuses for anything or anyone. I was just really bothered by the focus on CPR because it did not set right with me. It surprises me that neither attorney picked up on that. As far as the case, the same arguments can be made re stopping the blood, etc. and I will leave that to the jury. The CPR use is just something I needed to clear up.

If Catmommy is correct, the prosecution should have hammered stopping the bleeding not CPR . They touched it some but the main focus to me was CPR. On the other hand, the defense attorney could have mitigated some damage by using AG or an expert to say CPR was not appropriate. I think that was a missed opportunity - ie, the reasonableness of CPR at the scene. It is moot now because it looks like all evidence has been entered but I am glad to have medical input on that issue (and also personal information if I ever need to do CPR - I remembered the techniques but thought you could use it in a faint heartbeat to get it going).

I have not given any opinion on this case and will not. I have great faith in juries and the legal process. But, please never doubt, that whatever the outcome, I feel great pain for all impacted by this horrific event, especially the family of Botham. He was truly innocent in every respect and they will bear this loss every single day of their lives. There can be no debate about that.

CPR matters, at some point he did die. Just because he was pronounced dead at the hospital does not mean it didn't happen in that apartment. Only a doctor or medical examiner decides when someone is dead, not police or emergency responders. When police arrived they did CPR so we have to assume he did need it. Maybe they just prolonged his death long enough to get to the hospital or hastened it, we just don't know. But I imagine when a bullet pierces your heart that you would bleed out extremely fast internally and have little or no pulse and your only chance of survival at that point, although very slim, is CPR. Neither side wants to present that evidence I am sure! Unnecessarily hurtful, don't you think? Yes, extremely hurtful since no one could know at that point if it was helpful or not.

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