CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[LietKynes]

I'm really hoping they also had a warrant to take his cellphone for examination for where it had been prior to B's disappearance that day, and also a warrant for financial info, and also a warrant for the truck and RV. I hate that I am suspicious, but nothing else makes any sense at all.

BBM
Ita.
I think a clue could be found in where the truck traveled.
Would the fifth wheel have to be disconnected for easier mobility ?

 

[deugirtni]

BBM
Ita.
I think a clue could be found in where the truck traveled.
Would the fifth wheel have to be disconnected for easier mobility ?

That would've been really risky.. in case someone noticed the RV parked there without the truck? Unless it was at the time when he said he was trying to call 911 and get phone reception?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Apologies in advance for the rather graphic imagery.

I am having a really hard time embracing the thinly veiled suggestions that a 72 year old man, albeit in seemingly good shape, could tote the dead body of a tall, 130ish pound woman in 110 degree weather in the desert. Really seems highly improbable, even for a fit senior.

72 years old. 100+ desert degrees. Lugging a dead body. Nope. Doesn’t add up.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[LAhiker]

Apologies in advance for the rather graphic imagery.

I am having a really hard time embracing the thinly veiled suggestions that a 72 year old man, albeit in seemingly good shape, could tote the dead body of a tall, 130ish pound woman in 110 degree weather in the desert. Really seems highly improbable, even for a fit senior.

72 years old. 100+ desert degrees. Lugging a dead body. Nope. Doesn’t add up.

Amateur opinion and speculation

It agree that it would be hard for almost anyone to carry someone very far in the heat, but if we're talking about possible foul play, BT could have been taken on a second, one-way walk elsewhere in the desert. JMO

 

[LietKynes]

It agree that it would be hard for almost anyone to carry someone very far in the heat, but if we're talking about possible foul play, BT could have been taken on a second, one-way walk elsewhere in the desert. JMO

Agreed.
Hence the discussion about the gps on the vehicle.

Since we don't know for sure and there's always the other side of the possibilities ; let's say that RT was telling the truth as he witnessed it and told the media ; and maybe a kidnapper did happen to drive up just as they were coming back from their walk, and at the moment RT stopped to take a picture-- she turned and walked around the infamous corner and 'vanished' --- except she didn't vanish, but was instead abducted and dragged to a waiting car.

An unknown perp with more strength, and incredible timing.

Then the mysterious kidnapper forced her to walk to another location and bludgeoned and disposed of her.
So it could have been anyone.

And no one said or posted that anyone was toting around a dead body.
The member @sroad and others who observed that location said cars were driving by now and then , and something of that magnitude would be noticed.
Again imo.

My opinion is that most people at that advanced age would be able to come up with a plan that involved far less work.

It was suggested in previous posts that there are other ways to search for Barbara, and that (we all would agree) is the most important aspect in this discussion.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I don't know if it's true, my brother is a defense attorney, not a divorce lawyer, but he told me that if I put my inheritance in a money market fund, attached to our joint savings account, that I was then giving my husband permission to use any monies from that account, as his name is on it too.

I think it is true, as I have a brokerage account with linked checking, and I can push money between the two via ACH online, and have it reflected instantly in the balances. If your husband and you share your online account login, you using ACH to transfer money is probably as easy as him using ACH to transfer the money.

In fact, once upon a time I read a comment (maybe even here!), where one woman was telling the story of how her brother in law killed his wife (her sister). Whatever he had done the first time around didn't "take", so the sister/wife was actually on life support for some period of time, after refusing to succumb to the husband's first attempt on her life. LE later told the surviving sister that, and I quote, "despite widespread belief that there is no one appropriate 'way for people to grieve', there is indeed an appropriate and an inappropriate way to grieve/behave after tragedy; and your BIL ticked every box for classic inappropriateness, which put us onto his trail instantly." For example, from my recollection, the brother in law:

Spent down their joint bank account while the sister was on life support in the ICU; and laughed about it; specifically spent the money on things the sister would have disapproved of, such as a motorcycle ("Boy, it would really tee your sister off if she knew I was doing this!"); was in excellent spirits at her bedside ("we of course were appalled"), and in fact, did everything possible to put LE on his (money) trail. This story had the ring of truth to me regardless of being posted anonymously on a message board, and *I* was appalled on their behalves; but it also stuck with me. (The BIL was indeed later convicted for the murder of his wife/the sister.)

 

[Kapua]

Apologies in advance for the rather graphic imagery.

I am having a really hard time embracing the thinly veiled suggestions that a 72 year old man, albeit in seemingly good shape, could tote the dead body of a tall, 130ish pound woman in 110 degree weather in the desert. Really seems highly improbable, even for a fit senior.

72 years old. 100+ desert degrees. Lugging a dead body. Nope. Doesn’t add up.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I totally agree.

 

[LietKynes]

Apologies in advance for the rather graphic imagery.

I am having a really hard time embracing the thinly veiled suggestions that a 72 year old man, albeit in seemingly good shape, could tote the dead body of a tall, 130ish pound woman in 110 degree weather in the desert. Really seems highly improbable, even for a fit senior.

72 years old. 100+ desert degrees. Lugging a dead body. Nope. Doesn’t add up.

Amateur opinion and speculation

BBM

Agree with the bolded.
There's no one that age who would want to go to that much trouble.

And wherever Barbara is -- if she's out in the desert -- she was walked there to a specific location and neither dragged nor carried.
Again referencing the abductor that RT insisted on.

 

[katydid23]

BBM

Agree with the bolded.
There's no one that age who would want to go to that much trouble.

And wherever Barbara is -- if she's out in the desert -- she was walked there to a specific location and neither dragged nor carried.
Again referencing the abductor that RT insisted on.

Exactly.

 

[Seattle1]

I think it is true, as I have a brokerage account with linked checking, and I can push money between the two via ACH online, and have it reflected instantly in the balances. If your husband and you share your online account login, you using ACH to transfer money is probably as easy as him using ACH to transfer the money.

In fact, once upon a time I read a comment (maybe even here!), where one woman was telling the story of how her brother in law killed his wife (her sister). Whatever he had done the first time around didn't "take", so the sister/wife was actually on life support for some period of time, after refusing to succumb to the husband's first attempt on her life. LE later told the surviving sister that, and I quote, "despite widespread belief that there is no one appropriate 'way for people to grieve', there is indeed an appropriate and an inappropriate way to grieve/behave after tragedy; and your BIL ticked every box for classic inappropriateness, which put us onto his trail instantly." For example, from my recollection, the brother in law:

Spent down their joint bank account while the sister was on life support in the ICU; and laughed about it; specifically spent the money on things the sister would have disapproved of, such as a motorcycle ("Boy, it would really tee your sister off if she knew I was doing this!"); was in excellent spirits at her bedside ("we of course were appalled"), and in fact, did everything possible to put LE on his (money) trail. This story had the ring of truth to me regardless of being posted anonymously on a message board, and *I* was appalled on their behalves; but it also stuck with me. (The BIL was indeed later convicted for the murder of his wife/the sister.)

I know residents of community property states often have false sense of security with premarital asset ownership.

Regardless of your state - separate bank accounts don't guarantee "separate property." Your bank account assets must be defined as your sole and separate property, held in separate bank account.

Also, must be careful not to commingle funds. For example, if you carefully titled your inheritance as your sole and separate property held in separate bank account, probably not a good idea to withdraw money from this account to remodel the kitchen in your jointly owned property.

Separate bank accounts will not protect your money in a divorce—here's what will

 

[al66pine]

Asking questions and commenting in red below.

Thank you. So next question:
Scenario: Say wife inherits large sum of money.. not subject to family law division in a divorce.
Couple/wife purchases an expensive RV/truck with some of the money. How are truck & RV titled or registered???
--- wife's name alone?
If so, still her SepProp, so in (hypo) divorce, not subject to divsn as marital /CommProp, imo.
--- husband's name alone?
--- Wanda Wife & Harry Husband, Jt Ten w Rt of Survivorship?
--- Or?
The couple separates/divorces..
As I understand it (where I live, I have been told this by a lawyer), while it can get muddy, muddy = a perfect description if a papertrail exists to prove that the items were purchased using the inheritance monies, then that item/value would not be subject to inclusion in the division of marital assets.
A person's transfer of inherited $ from a/c registered SepProp to jt ten a/c may give rise to a legal presumption.
---- In some jurisdictions, such a transfer to jt ten a/c converts $ to CommProp, so is subj to division as CommProp in divorce proceeding. Because, in everyday English, well, why would a person change the a/c title/registration, if not to transfer an interest in SepProp a/c to the spouse?.
-- In other jurisdictions, that prop maintains its SepProp character - as long as the spouse can provide documentation of the origin of the funds as being thru inheritance.
In a divorce, proceeding, a/c title/registration is/may be prima facie evidence of who the owner is, for purposes of determining in a divorce action, whether the property is ---
--- SepProp thus not subject to division, or
--- CommProp and is subject to division.

But it is a rebuttable presumption which can be overcome w sufficient evidence, typically a signed, written agreement reciting that the transfer was for a specific purpose. Example: a loan for one to start a business and to repay the spouse X percent interest over Y years.

Would it be the same there?
ie this is a big IF out of nowhere.. but say wife was privately (only known by husband) very much considering leaving the marriage, say during perhaps a trip overseas she may decide not to return, potentially all of any inheritance monies, plus any expensive purchases already made with the inheritance monies, would belong to wife and would not have to be considered during the division of assets.
Depends. Yes, possible, imo, wife would end up w prop's purchased w inheritance $. Not clear cut, imo.
At that point, if wife and husband had each separately sought legal advice about a divorce and judicial rulings on prop questions, imo, both atty's would have to pin down more info & details, a/c stmts, etc before predicting likely outcomes and advise each of the two.

Therefore, potentially, husband would be SOL for having access/ownership to any of the remaining funds, nor of the items purchased. He could end up with no RV/truck and none of that money.
Agreeing w you re possibility of husband being in this ^ position, if either filed petition for divorce.

Food for thinking.. ??

 

[al66pine]

dbm

 

[al66pine]

Keeping SepProp Separate and Not Messing About?

Just echoing what a few posters have said or alluded to here:
Ideally if each person keeps SepProp assets in a/c's registered as such and does not go mucking about moving $$$ from SepProp to CommProp a/c's, then on divorce there is a bright line around which a/c's are CommProp and subject to division.


In real life, disagreements arise when couple has jumbled things up over the years, by depositing SepProp checks into a CommProp a/c, and vice versa. Or using an inheritance as down payment for house, to start a business, held in joint names, and esp w a lack of recordkeeping/documentation.
jmo

 

[moonrise]

I'm still wondering if the RV was also a toyhauler, with a "garage" of sorts, built to transport a golf cart, ATV, motorcycle, etc. Maybe the VI knows?

 

[rosesfromangels]

BBM

Agree with the bolded.
There's no one that age who would want to go to that much trouble.

And wherever Barbara is -- if she's out in the desert -- she was walked there to a specific location and neither dragged nor carried.
Again referencing the abductor that RT insisted on.

Well, if we run with that theory, then I will go back to what my work colleague suggested. He is from that area. He said the mines in that area are known dumping grounds.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[10ofRods]

I'm still wondering if the RV was also a toyhauler, with a "garage" of sorts, built to transport a golf cart, ATV, motorcycle, etc. Maybe the VI knows?

No, it's a Cougar 5th wheeler. It's a lux model of a cabin-style trailer. You can google them and see what they're like. Not a toy hauler. You can see the model name on the side of the trailer in the video shown on the Vegas channel and Inside Edition, too, I believe.

 

[al66pine]

Here is the legal advice, given to me by my brother, an attorney, when he gave me the check from my father's estate/will.
He told me that it was not community property, and I could spend it any way I wanted, or give it to whomever I wanted, or save it for myself for the future.
HOWEVER , he also said that if I put it in our joint savings account, then my husband could spend it any way he desired. And if he wanted to, he could clean out 'our' savings account, and walk away, and it would be a tough legal battle for me to get it returned at that point.
Even in a divorce he said, if the money was in a joint bank account, it would be very hard for me to demand all of it for myself at that point--no matter where it came from....

@katydid23 sbm FWIW, totally agreeing w what your brother advised you.
Not speaking to your situation specifically, but generally:
If/when this happens, it can be very expensive legal battle, not a contingency case. At $$$$ every six minutes, legal billing adds up. Depending on amt of $ in question, $ spent on legal fees may outpace $ could be greater than $ which could possibly be recovered.

The $ issue is often a hefty slice of anger in the middle of big, fat, contentious divorce sandwich. After all, if a still-spouse withdrew $ this way, this same about-to-be-ex-spouse is not likely to contritely concede money arguments, pay up. Esp'ly if $ vanished from spouse's pocket and was left behind at casinos, racetracks, gentlemen's clubs VIP lounges, jewelry stores, etc.
jmo.
@katydid23 Congrats on 30+ yrs of marriage.

 

[MsBetsy]

Well, if we run with that theory, then I will go back to what my work colleague suggested. He is from that area. He said the mines in that area are known dumping grounds.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes, I read that there are nearly 12,000 mines in the area and many bodies have been found there, usually years after they went missing.
I wonder if there are any close to where Barbara disappeared. Imo

 

[PaulR]

Yes, I read that there are nearly 12,000 mines in the area and many bodies have been found there, usually years after they went missing.
I wonder if there are any close to where Barbara disappeared. Imo

USGS has data on this, at least the ones we know about. "Symbols indicating mining-related features digitized from historical USGS topographic maps in the western part of the conterminous US. Includes prospect pits, mine shafts and adits, quarries, open-pit mines, tailings piles and ponds, gravel and borrow pits, and other features." The KML files can be downloaded and viewed with Google Earth.

Prospect- and mine-related features on USGS topographic maps

Attaching a screenshot of the area around where BT went missing.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, I read that there are nearly 12,000 mines in the area and many bodies have been found there, usually years after they went missing.
I wonder if there are any close to where Barbara disappeared. Imo

Depends on what you mean by "close." Not within 2 miles, I'd say (although they find obscure mines every once in a while). 5 miles, maybe. Again, though, presumably LE has timestamped pictures of Barbara's whereabouts and information from RT's phone (VI says LE took RT's phone). So if she "wandered off" someplace else, LE would at least check out other areas (if they chose to disregard RT's account of things).

It's granite bedrock in the area where they were hiking, so no mines right there and the soil is pretty shallow on top of that (so would be hard to dig IMO). Haven't had time to go out there since Barbara disappeared, but when we do go again this winter, we'll take a shovel and a topo map and see what it's like. I know that the eastern side of Kelbaker is more sandy/looser dirt. I love geology and rock collecting myself, which is our main reason for stopping there (we haven't stopped for a while, I know I've mentioned that we don't think it feels particularly safe out there).