NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[jaejae]

I think the fact that people keep awareness of the case alive 15 years later when there’s seemingly no new info is great. The alternative is people being silent and forgetting. Much of her family and friends have participated in interviews, podcasts, etc. even Fred through another person.

I agree with. I was just making the point that her case is very cold and her family are probably tired of Podcasts.

 

[jaejae]

I agree with. I was just making the point that her case is very cold and her family are probably tired of Podcasts.

I am in favour of justice for victims in all cases and have spent many years trying to get justice or more apt answers for Maura's family and for the relatives of the victims of the Connecticut River Valley Killer.

 

[tigerteeth]

I agree with. I was just making the point that her case is very cold and her family are probably tired of Podcasts.

Yeah. I really hope something leads to an answer someday. I often find myself going back and remembering details of interviews of people interviewed on podcasts for

I agree with. I was just making the point that her case is very cold and her family are probably tired of Podcasts.

Yeah. Hopefully some interview tidbits help lead to an answer someday.

 

[Chad_York]

I think the Connecticut River Killer was operating on and off throughout New England up to 2010 and therefore he can be a suspect in Maura's case and the Brianna Maitland case. At the moment Maura's case seems to be stuck in a permanent cycle of Podcasts and internet blogs and videos unfortunately for her family. Here is a recent Podcast episode:

Here's a question - do you think Maura would have trusted a woman driver than a man?

 

[tigerteeth]

Here's a question - do you think Maura would have trusted a woman driver than a man?

As a woman, I could definitely see that being the case in normal circumstances. I’m sure if drinking or concussed her standards might have lowered, but definitely yes.

 

[Nadal]

Hi there, pretty new to Websleuths but not to the MM case. I’ve been skimming through the threads getting familiar with some of the theories but I’d love clarification on some things.

1) Wasn’t all of the alcohol she purchased left behind in the car? I remember hearing there was spilled wine but was the box left? And the bottles?
Whether she left on foot or was picked up, if she was ditching her car because she’d been drinking and didn’t want to be confronted by cops, wouldn’t she try to get rid of the evidence in the car?

2) There was discussion of the possibility that this accident was somehow staged.... I saw someone suggest she ditched the car to explain damage from a previous accident? What would the purpose be? Seems it would be much easier to ditch a car somewhere more remote. She got the accident report form for her father’s car right?

3) I understand there are rumors and theories surrounding the dorm room “party” she attended - has anyone ever spoken on the record about it? Is it generally understood to be a small gathering and she acted normal?

4) Was the track coach cleared?

5) For those who are suspicious of Bill, I can see why with his current record. What if Maura’s friends knew she was trying to lay low and he did find out (maybe from one of them) where she was going, and was able to track her down after she was reported missing . Wouldn’t a friend come forward with that information once they realized she was actually missing?

6) I saw mention of a possible sighting at a gas station or grocery store where she was said to be with two other females. Where and when was this?

I think that’s all for now. Just trying to gather my thoughts.

01. This has always been highly disputed and it's changed several times from when i've been following the case. During the Oxygen special iirc it was said that the police recovered a box of wine, bottle of baileys and 8 wine coolers left from a pack of 12. Good point about discarding the alcohol i've wondered that myself, if she was shaken up, drunk, hurt from the crash, etc she may have took off quickly without remembering and whenever/if she did remember she didn't want to risk going back to the car.

02. I find the idea of her having staged it ridiculous. The idea is that she hit someone at her school (his name is Vasi i think, haven't read about this case in ages) in a hit and run. Great theory that seems to explain everything except it most likely (i'm totally convinced it wasn't but some do still think so) wasn't because paint chips found on him didn't match her car and she was at work at the time, some suggested she did it while going for lunch but i'm pretty sure that's been debunked due to the time it would've taken and the fact that employee's always ate in school.

03. Her two friends definitely spoke to police but i don't think a transcript has been released. They may have spoke to Marybeth Conway in that early article too but i don't think they did, it's been ages since i've read it. Otherwise i don't think they've spoke to anyone and that's why they became a target of Renners.

04. I guess officially not but it's just so unlikely. Well i don't believe in the tandem driver theories anyway.

05. You answered your own question, that's literally what i was going to say before i finished reading. Bill was in Oklahoma at the time in the army, LE confirmed his alibi it wasn't him. You can theorize that he paid someone to kill her or whatever but i find that very unlikely considering the circumstances. Bill is a piece of ... clearly i'm not defending him but i just feel like he's a red herring (involvement wise, he very well could've been the reason she left) at this point because there's nothing new to discuss.

06. Renner came up with this, i can't remember the details you should check his blog although he deleted a lot of it so i don't know if it's still up there.

Sorry, there's people way better versed in this case than me just thought i'd attempt to answer you since no one else did.

 

[PaulR]

I wouldn't consider any information posted by Renner to be trustworthy. Outside of Maura actually being missing.

 

[Nadal]

I wouldn't consider any information posted by Renner to be trustworthy. Outside of Maura actually being missing.

I'm not a fan of Renner but to be fair to him he was the first to reveal Maura's arrests and being asked to leave West Point, he got a few interesting interviews iirc too. Problem is he used up all that information then relied on gutter level sources for rumour and hearsay. Unless there's corroboration i'd take what he says with a huge grain of salt, i only pointed him towards his blog because that's the first place the thing he was asking for showed up and it'd be better reading it firsthand than after it went through the rumour mill and got several chinese whispers attached to it as fact.

 

[sony12]

THe area where she crashed is right next to a very significant turn in the road. If she was a little impaired and was potentially driving a little to fast its not hard to realize how she could have lost control of the car and ran off the road.

The tandem driver theory would explain why she disappeared from the area so quickly after the wreck. Again although there is no evidence for it there is also no evidence against it either. We simply don't really know the circumstances behind her disappearance very well to the point to where almost anything is possible.

All we know is that she was 21 years old and had a bit of a wild personal life. So in that regard it would definitely be possible for two, three, four....(however many there may have been) irresponsible early twenty something year olds who were driving in separate vehicles would try to flee the scene in order to avoid any repercussions.

 

[PaulR]

THe area where she crashed is right next to a very significant turn in the road. If she was a little impaired and was potentially driving a little to fast its not hard to realize how she could have lost control of the car and ran off the road.

The tandem driver theory would explain why she disappeared from the area so quickly after the wreck. Again although there is no evidence for it there is also no evidence against it either. We simply don't really know the circumstances behind her disappearance very well to the point to where almost anything is possible.

All we know is that she was 21 years old and had a bit of a wild personal life. So in that regard it would definitely be possible for two, three, four....(however many there may have been) irresponsible early twenty something year olds who were driving in separate vehicles would try to flee the scene in order to avoid any repercussions.

I think the evidence against a tandem driver (meaning a friend of Maura's who was driving with her) is - where is Maura? If she was driving while intoxicated, getting her out of the immediate area and letting her sober up overnight (and making it harder to press a DUI charge) would be fine. And surely anyone close enough to Maura to be a tandem driver would have been named by now.

 

[sony12]

I think the evidence against a tandem driver (meaning a friend of Maura's who was driving with her) is - where is Maura? If she was driving while intoxicated, getting her out of the immediate area and letting her sober up overnight (and making it harder to press a DUI charge) would be fine. And surely anyone close enough to Maura to be a tandem driver would have been named by now.

You'd think they would have been named by now however these college friendship circles are really wacky. It's not like adults where the people they spend time with are often truly people they genuinely consider friends. A lot of times with these on campus friendships the people really don't even like eachother that much. They just are around one another because you like to party and they like to party. I remember when I was 21/22 and living in on campus housing I would follow people/have people follow me who I may have seen once or twice in my life and I may have seen them for a week or so after that. Our only connection to one another was that we were going to a party together. In those types of situations all it would take to cover something up is for a few people to keep mum about something and no one would ever find out. So it definitely could be possible that other people amongst Maura's circle were involved in her getting away from the car and no one knows about them because the right people are keeping quiet about it.

 

[TristanP]

I’m 100% convinced Maura died from exposure in those woods and just hasn’t ever been found, probably due to animal predation. She was a troubled young woman running away from problems, and found herself in an even bigger problem and knew she’d be in jail for driving drunk after the accident. I think she tried to hide with the idea she’d walk into town but it was too cold and she was too impaired.

I think she had some shady people around her but I don’t think anyone did anything to her at all.

 

[Nadal]

Oh let's see if I remember right you decided to disappear as soon as I wanted you to provide evidence that Maura's family/friends had been ruled out like you said they were. Are you going to do that again. Just come on here and troll me and then just vanish as soon as you have to start answering questions?

I was wrong about them being cleared, i jumped the gun sorry i honestly thought i already posted that. My point was there's very little reason to suspect them and i went further and said they were "cleared", at the very least we can freely assume their alibis were confirmed or something would be said about them especially since Fred has took LE to court and attacked them several times.

So are you Renner? You seem to get very aggravated whenever he's brought up and you never disagree with him.

 

[Nadal]

You'd think they would have been named by now however these college friendship circles are really wacky. It's not like adults where the people they spend time with are often truly people they genuinely consider friends. A lot of times with these on campus friendships the people really don't even like eachother that much. They just are around one another because you like to party and they like to party.

This sounds bitter and angry as hell. What's going on? Honestly all of your posts read like this to me.

 

[sony12]

I was wrong about them being cleared, i jumped the gun sorry i honestly thought i already posted that. My point was there's very little reason to suspect them and i went further and said they were "cleared", at the very least we can freely assume their alibis were confirmed or something would be said about them especially since Fred has took LE to court and attacked them several times.

So are you Renner? You seem to get very aggravated whenever he's brought up and you never disagree with him.

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and start discussing theories of the case normally with you until I read your last sentence and then the post that comes after. And you just continued with your trolling habits after apologizing. So that pretty much just throws any apology you have made in the trash. By the way I am not Renner but he does put forth some of the more realistic theories of anyone who spends time on this case outside of those who are officially involved. People just don't like him because he questions the people involved in Maura's life just as much as he questions a potential serial killer who may have murdered her.

Anyway have a good day. I 'aint talking to you anymore. You aren't worth the time it takes to write up a post.

 

[Nadal]

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and start discussing theories of the case normally

lol, no you weren't! hahaha Let's not lie br..

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

I’m 100% convinced Maura died from exposure in those woods and just hasn’t ever been found, probably due to animal predation. She was a troubled young woman running away from problems, and found herself in an even bigger problem and knew she’d be in jail for driving drunk after the accident. I think she tried to hide with the idea she’d walk into town but it was too cold and she was too impaired.

I think she had some shady people around her but I don’t think anyone did anything to her at all.[/QUOTE

I think so as well - she was drunk, she crashed her car, she had issues with the police before... I think she walked into the woods and shortly thereafter died of exposure. It was a freezing cold night - I worked as a law enforcement park ranger and trying to track an animal of person in the snow is profoundly challenging. Footprints get covered up when the snow blows (even a little), the woods are very very dark and it's really easy to get turned around and lost. When someone gets lost in the woods their natural instinct is to walk to find their way back. I had so many lost hikers that took me forever to find because they'd call our dispatcher and give them a description of where they were (I knew the area very well, as I worked mainly nights) and I'd head out to get them (I could always narrow down their location to a 1/4 mile radius) and I'd get there and couldn't find them. They always, always walk away instead of just staying where they are. I often was on foot patrol in the winter - I had heated socks, arctic boots, a heated vest, a jacket that keeps you warm to -20F, heated gloves, I had my face covered, etc. When I'd get a call in the winter for someone who was lost I'd try to get there within 30 minutes - if the hikers had been out in the cold for a while and not dressed for the weather they'd be freezing by the time I got to them. Hypothermia happens fast, especially when you're intoxicated... I suspect Maura's bones are in those woods someplace...

 

[sony12]

It's very possible she went out to the woods somewhere and died of exposure (infact that is what I feel is most likely) but there is still so little we know about this case that virtually almost anything is still on the table.

One thing though is that if she did die of exposure I don't think her body is anywhere in the surrounding area of the wreck. I think she would have hiked up the road a bit and then entered the woods. And that is a big reason why they never found any remains in the couple/few years after she vanished is because they were mainly searching in the area around the crash site.

 

[Nadal]

Didn't they search within a five mile radius or was that misreported? I'm personally not convinced she could've got outside that size of a search zone without her body being found. Athlete or not, i of course know search parties miss things.

 

[PaulR]

You'd think they would have been named by now however these college friendship circles are really wacky. It's not like adults where the people they spend time with are often truly people they genuinely consider friends. A lot of times with these on campus friendships the people really don't even like eachother that much. They just are around one another because you like to party and they like to party. I remember when I was 21/22 and living in on campus housing I would follow people/have people follow me who I may have seen once or twice in my life and I may have seen them for a week or so after that. Our only connection to one another was that we were going to a party together. In those types of situations all it would take to cover something up is for a few people to keep mum about something and no one would ever find out. So it definitely could be possible that other people amongst Maura's circle were involved in her getting away from the car and no one knows about them because the right people are keeping quiet about it.

That still doesn't answer - where is she? There's zero evidence that she is alive, and nobody has said anything. It's not like the old days when you could go to a graveyard and make a fake ID using a dead kid's identity.

And Renner has had every reason to find and name anyone who would be a perspective candidate as a tandem driver and has produced nothing.