Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

[deugirtni]

The discovery of her cellphone gave me the chills.

 

[deugirtni]

I am shocked that the cleaning lady wasn't more concerned after all of the clues she saw. The vehicle which looked to have been there at least overnight and yet no 'Honey' to acknowledge her; the unanswered cellphone ultimately found in a main-floor powder-room; the unaltered bedroom indicating nobody had slept there or changed clothing since her last cleaning? If it had been me, I can imagine me going around looking for her in the house, and possibly contacting Barry at work, etc. etc. etc.

 

[annemc2]

Can anyone read past page 10 in the book preview? Says 16 pages but mine stops abruptly at 10?

I was completely and totally sucked in and when I couldn't go to page 11 I kind of snapped back to reality and was like nooooooo! It's a great read so far - lots of details.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am shocked that the cleaning lady wasn't more concerned after all of the clues she saw. The vehicle which looked to have been there at least overnight and yet no 'Honey' to acknowledge her; the unanswered cellphone ultimately found in a main-floor powder-room; the unaltered bedroom indicating nobody had slept there or changed clothing since her last cleaning? If it had been me, I can imagine me going around looking for her in the house, and possibly contacting Barry at work, etc. etc. etc.

I don’t understand that, either.

The only place the housekeeper had not been in the home was in the basement. And there were signs Honey was home.

The potential buyers and their agent arrived before the other agent. Why not look for Honey as they waited?

Just a quick look downstairs and the housekeeper would have seen the house inspection documents on the hallway floor.

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder if the home inspection document was from 2017 pre-listing the home, or from after they had had it built many years ago, when all of those deficiencies were found. When I first read it I immediately thought about the deficiencies, and the resulting lawsuits.. but I suppose many homeowners get their own home inspection done prior to listing, to ensure there's nothing that needs to be dealt with ahead of the home going up for sale.

 

[deugirtni]

And did I read that NINETY minutes passed before calling police?? Seems so many people were called ahead of the police.. which I believe is what we had suspected long ago, IIRC.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

And did I read that NINETY minutes passed before calling police?? Seems so many people were called ahead of the police.. which I believe is what we had suspected long ago, IIRC.

In the beginning when the media were reporting this as a m/s: I thought there had to have been a note, close to the bodies, that the realtor found that lead her to not dial 911 first, but to instead call <insert written instructions by Barry>.

Now we hear the realtor called MS first, who then called JS. JS, according to the book, knew of the deaths 90 minutes before 911 was called.

When JS was notified contradicts with this article. It’s important to note that JS was directly quoted in this article by the WSJ:

Police found the bodies seated side by side near an indoor swimming pool. Two belts were looped around their necks and fastened to a railing.

Soon after, on that mid-December day, Jonathon Sherman spotted a social-media feed that said his father, pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman, and his mother, Honey, had been found dead at home.

Mr. Sherman, 35 years old, went to his parents’ house. Police refused to answer questions for hours. He and two of his sisters waited until 9 p.m. that night for confirmation that it was true their parents were dead

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case

 

[dotr]

And did I read that NINETY minutes passed before calling police?? Seems so many people were called ahead of the police.. which I believe is what we had suspected long ago, IIRC.

Surprised that everyone did not hightail it out of the house immediately, if it were me, there is no way i am going to stick around with deceased persons or take any chances in case the killer is still in the house! imo.

 

[casesensitive]

Surprised that everyone did not hightail it out of the house immediately, if it were me, there is no way i am going to stick around with deceased persons or take any chances in case the killer is still in the house! imo.

Me too dotr. I wonder if the realtor was told not to call LE until after "somebody" came over to assess the situation. Weird.

 

[dotr]

Me too dotr. I wonder if the realtor was told not to call LE until after "somebody" came over to assess the situation. Weird.

Speaking of weird, just to revisit the other art installation noted in the book's excerpt, wondering what Stern and Gottlieb found " unusual " about the life size male and female figures in an upstairs room?
Of course of particular interest, what was it about the two men who had previously visited the home, why did they think they were "odd ducks"?
imo, speculation.

 

[ldlager]

In the beginning when the media were reporting this as a m/s: I thought there had to have been a note, close to the bodies, that the realtor found that lead her to not dial 911 first, but to instead call <insert written instructions by Barry>.

Now we hear the realtor called MS first, who then called JS. JS, according to the book, knew of the deaths 90 minutes before 911 was called.

When JS was notified contradicts with this article. It’s important to note that JS was directly quoted in this article by the WSJ:

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case

Excellent pickup Lexi. So now the question is, who do we believe- shechtman, or Jonathan Sherman?
Unless in the next page of the book it’s revealed that she didn’t in fact speak to JS directly, and left him a voicemail instead?

 

[deugirtni]

In the beginning when the media were reporting this as a m/s: I thought there had to have been a note, close to the bodies, that the realtor found that lead her to not dial 911 first, but to instead call <insert written instructions by Barry>.

Now we hear the realtor called MS first, who then called JS. JS, according to the book, knew of the deaths 90 minutes before 911 was called.

When JS was notified contradicts with this article. It’s important to note that JS was directly quoted in this article by the WSJ:

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case

Excellent pickup Lexi. So now the question is, who do we believe- shechtman, or Jonathan Sherman?
Unless in the next page of the book it’s revealed that she didn’t in fact speak to JS directly, and left him a voicemail instead?

In the WSJ article it says (I don't see a direct quote from JS in regard to this?):

"Soon after, on that mid-December day, Jonathon Sherman spotted a social-media feed that said his father, pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman, and his mother, Honey, had been found dead at home.

"Mr. Sherman, 35 years old, went to his parents’ house. Police refused to answer questions for hours. He and two of his sisters waited until 9 p.m. that night for confirmation that it was true their parents were dead."

In the book, it says:

"Stern did not immediately call the police. Instead, she called Mary Shechtman in Florida, who told Stern to call the police. Then Shechtman hung up and started dialing numbers for the Sherman children, getting through first to Jonathon Sherman, Barry and Honey's son. Finally, after a delay of almost ninety minutes from the discovery of the bodies,". (excerpt ends there.)
----
It seems JS had already heard from MS, and then saw the SM feed. He and his sisters then went to the home to try to get confirmation from police and to find out what happened.

Looking at it from MS's perspective (and JS's perspective), she rec'd a phonecall from Stern, likely with few details, and not a lot of confirmation (Stern had asked the cleaning lady to go and have a look, but had only viewed it herself from the other end of the room - so JS was getting it kind of 3rd and 4th hand, it seems). I'm sure the kids were expecting to receive official notification from police even though they were already aware. And they were likely shocked that it was being reported on SM before they'd even been officially informed. imo.

 

[nuff]

I am shocked that the cleaning lady wasn't more concerned after all of the clues she saw. The vehicle which looked to have been there at least overnight and yet no 'Honey' to acknowledge her; the unanswered cellphone ultimately found in a main-floor powder-room; the unaltered bedroom indicating nobody had slept there or changed clothing since her last cleaning? If it had been me, I can imagine me going around looking for her in the house, and possibly contacting Barry at work, etc. etc. etc.

Except we don't know what her usual routine was. Perhaps they didn't always advise her if they were going away overnight, or greet her when she arrived. i can imagine, in a huge house, a cleaning person just letting themselves in and going about their work independently. That seems to have been what the person who watered the plants also did.

 

[nuff]

The art installation with two life-size humans? After all the speculation about the staging of the bodies and its possible meaning, could the killers just have been mimicking that in the pool room, for no particular reason other than nastiness? (Have to wonder if there's more detail about the installation later in the book.) How many of us have already pre-ordered? (I have.)

 

[deugirtni]

Except we don't know what her usual routine was. Perhaps they didn't always advise her if they were going away overnight, or greet her when she arrived. i can imagine, in a huge house, a cleaning person just letting themselves in and going about their work independently. That seems to have been what the person who watered the plants also did.

Yes, H could easily have done an unscheduled overnighter in B's vehicle with him, (although something tells me if the two were going out as a couple, perhaps they would have taken H's vehicle?), and I'm sure the couple didn't feel they had to let their domestic staff know their plans... it is however, all of the little 'clues' combined, *especially* the 'ringing' cellphone in the powder-room, and then top the unmoved vehicle, the already-made bed, and the cellphone not being answered on the floor in the powder-room, with the realtor and potential homebuyers showing up (Perhaps H may have had the courtesy of letting the domestic staff know to expect them whilst they were still doing their duties that morning and to perhaps be sure to do this or that before they arrived?), and the plant-waterer with her plans to do some food preparation with H (kitchen a mess preparing to make a pile of latkes? - not great timing for a showing?), yet H was nowhere to be seen in the house... then the seller-realtor also showed up - who had been trying unsuccessfully to get ahold of H by phone about this Friday morning showing (perhaps she mentioned to cleaning lady?). I'm just saying if it were me, I'd have been looking around the house when I found that phone ringing, if it'd been me. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

The art installation with two life-size humans? After all the speculation about the staging of the bodies and its possible meaning, could the killers just have been mimicking that in the pool room, for no particular reason other than nastiness? (Have to wonder if there's more detail about the installation later in the book.) How many of us have already pre-ordered? (I have.)

I haven't, but now I'm thinking about it.

 

[deugirtni]

I'd like to know more about what B&H were wearing. It has been mentioned about their 'jackets' being down their arms a bit.. and we've speculated ad nauseum as to whether it was outdoor wear, or more 'business suit jackets'. We've guessed that H was accosted when she entered the house, and someone (a VI? an MSM article?) alluded to a bit of a mess near the front door? Now we discover H's cellphone had made it upstairs to a powder-room.. now I'm wondering if she was accosted upstairs, outdoor coat and boots already removed, and brought down the spiral staircase to the basement.. where they also accosted B when he came in from the underground parking garage.

 

[nuff]

I'm wondering if she was accosted upstairs, outdoor coat and boots already removed, and brought down the spiral staircase to the basement.. where they also accosted B when he came in from the underground parking garage.

Someone speculated that H would have removed her outdoor coat & boots before going to the powder room. Given her age (which is pretty close to mine), she would quite likely have needed the washroom as soon as she entered the house, coat, boots, and all. (One of the many joys of aging.) The phone was found in the powder room, so maybe she heard something, was about to call, but was accosted there. Can't find the source now, but I thought at least one article did say they still had their outdoor wear on when found.

Could the "odd ducks" who toured the house have done something to one of the external doors so that it didn't lock? If so, were the killers already there when H got home, with no signs of forced entry? I hope Donovan's book has more about those two, who I assume were interviewed by TPS?

 

[rickcross]

And did I read that NINETY minutes passed before calling police?? Seems so many people were called ahead of the police.. which I believe is what we had suspected long ago, IIRC.

And Jonathon was the first to be called who was local. Wondering why he wouldn't rush to the house? Or maybe he did?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

In the WSJ article it says (I don't see a direct quote from JS in regard to this?):

"Soon after, on that mid-December day, Jonathon Sherman spotted a social-media feed that said his father, pharmaceutical billionaire Barry Sherman, and his mother, Honey, had been found dead at home.

"Mr. Sherman, 35 years old, went to his parents’ house. Police refused to answer questions for hours. He and two of his sisters waited until 9 p.m. that night for confirmation that it was true their parents were dead."

In the book, it says:

"Stern did not immediately call the police. Instead, she called Mary Shechtman in Florida, who told Stern to call the police. Then Shechtman hung up and started dialing numbers for the Sherman children, getting through first to Jonathon Sherman, Barry and Honey's son. Finally, after a delay of almost ninety minutes from the discovery of the bodies,". (excerpt ends there.)
----
It seems JS had already heard from MS, and then saw the SM feed. He and his sisters then went to the home to try to get confirmation from police and to find out what happened.

Looking at it from MS's perspective (and JS's perspective), she rec'd a phonecall from Stern, likely with few details, and not a lot of confirmation (Stern had asked the cleaning lady to go and have a look, but had only viewed it herself from the other end of the room - so JS was getting it kind of 3rd and 4th hand, it seems). I'm sure the kids were expecting to receive official notification from police even though they were already aware. And they were likely shocked that it was being reported on SM before they'd even been officially informed. imo.

Here’s the part that confirms JS’s involvement with the article:

Jonathon Sherman and his three sisters believed the idea of a murder-suicide was “unsubstantiated and wrong-minded,” Mr. Sherman told The Wall Street Journal in a written response to questions.

After a Billionaire and His Wife Are Found Dead, Their Children Try to Crack the Case


Regarding the way JS participated in interviews: from The Star, after they reached out to JS for comments on another story—

The Star has made several attempts to interview Jonathon Sherman about his parents and their legacy. However, the Star could not agree to Sherman’s terms — he wanted “sole and absolute discretion” to edit any information about him of which he did not approve.

Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star