CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[Jade]

I think she's in the desert and there's no point in putting up "wanted" posters. If anyone finds a body in the desert, they're calling the police.

I also don't think there is any point in saying "this is what I'd do" because this isn't happening to you. I know way too many people who have said (for instance) that they'd be able to be 100% full-time caretakers if a family member got sick, only to find that caretaker burnout is real.

The urgency would have been months ago.

But it's odd... he gives interviews to a local TV network, and even appears on a national TV show. He has, as far as we know, fully cooperated with law enforcement, including (according to him) taking a lie detector test, which no lawyer would advise and is unreliable (if I were a police officer, there is no way I would exclude someone just because they passed a polygraph.)

We also don't know what else he's done. We hear stories about the families of the missing who are unable to get news attention, even in a 24 hour news cycle. Is RT trying that, and nobody wants to cover it because, well, look at all the new missing person cases. Look at the Destiny Rose case, it took a month from the time she went missing until a thread started here about her case.

And it's all too easy to fall into despair and depression. I've lost too many people over the past few years and it's hard to even get up in the morning sometimes.

But yet you are opining that he is desperate that he is too over come to function.

If you can project views on the case what is wrong with others doing so?

BT is not known dead she is missing.

Most families say they experience a delay of grief. Its limbo so what your experience is not what is going on here either although any contribution on a discussion board is welcome, imo.


RE Posters:

What if someone found her hat, or cup?

If there were posters they might realize the significance of the find.

A location of an item may lead to BT’s location and bring answers as to her fate if he is concerned of her fate.

RT is a long time successful sales man who keeps his person and his vehicles in shape.

He is not semi-literate, he is not weak willed or without resources. This is not some little shrinking violet with nowhere to turn or get help.

He has the capability to hire someone to show concern and keep looking if he can’t manage if he has suffered some sort of decline of his recently still held abilities.


all imo

 

[LietKynes]

There is that. However, is it more important to find his wife or that the public might frown on his statements to the press? MOO

Agreed.

And some are more concerned about their image than others.

 

[LietKynes]

The urgency would have been months ago.

And it's all too easy to fall into despair and depression.

Your contributions are welcome and so is a difference of opinion.

RT should still be urgent about finding her. Even now.
She is officially missing ; so why would he be in despair ?
She could very well be alive; just hiding or concealed by someone for whatever reason.
That's what I'm questioning.
( Not questioning your statement about your personal experiences.)

Someone mentioned in a past thread here about the possible fitness of RT. And they brought up his hair color change, fake tan and gold chain necklace he wears. Someone who is concerned with image.
The VI has stated as much.

One action he could maybe take is to fly his plane over the area she went missing, looking for a red or white cap or some clue?
Wouldn't hurt, but instead could help his cause.
People would be glad to jump in and assist him if he asked them for a search now that the weather has cooled.
RT needs to let people help him -- and they would if he requested it, I'm positive of that.

And to date there have been no requests and no further media interviews.

If there were , msm wouldn't tape his interview and any updates in this case --- and then go and hide it from the public !
Why would they ? That's not their job ... and any newsworthy blip get's aired these days, even that which isn't news-worthy.
I can think of a few egregious examples but will refrain so as not to head down a rabbit trail.
So we would've heard of any interviews. Imo.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think she's in the desert and there's no point in putting up "wanted" posters. If anyone finds a body in the desert, they're calling the police.

I also don't think there is any point in saying "this is what I'd do" because this isn't happening to you. I know way too many people who have said (for instance) that they'd be able to be 100% full-time caretakers if a family member got sick, only to find that caretaker burnout is real.

I think missing posters are still very relevant in the sense they raise awareness. If you're on a nature walk or hike, your primary purpose is that walk/hike. If you saw a poster stating a person was missing in that area, I think most people would be prone to more purposeful/conscious scanning during the walk. JMO.

 

[crussell821]

I think she's in the desert and there's no point in putting up "wanted" posters. If anyone finds a body in the desert, they're calling the police.

I also don't think there is any point in saying "this is what I'd do" because this isn't happening to you. I know way too many people who have said (for instance) that they'd be able to be 100% full-time caretakers if a family member got sick, only to find that caretaker burnout is real.

Yes! IMO, ‘what I would do’ is so useless because in reality, what you would do is so far off base what you THINK you’d do. JMO

 

[LietKynes]

If my dh went missing and a lawyer told me it's best if I stop talking, asking for help, give any interviews.... I'd tell HIM/HER to find another client.
Actually if my loved one went missing I'm not sure I'd need legal help, since it'd just be a missing person.
I know that RT insisted she was abducted and that foul play might have happened; hence his need to lawyer up.

You could not stop me from searching myself, begging the media for interviews to get the word out, and plastering flyers everywhere relevant !

And if they were used to hiking and according to RT they'd hiked before in the desert-- what's keeping him from looking at least now and then ?
He or they bought the fifth wheel and RT planned to take her on a hike to see the rock formation.
He planned this in the hottest part of the season.
So why not search now when it's cooler ?
Common sense.

 

[K9Enzo]

I do think BT's missing person poster would be useful in the area she went missing. Not sure if there's an official 'trail head', as an example, where it could be posted. But's it's an awareness to hikers/visitors in the area. Some missing person posters/info is useful on FB hiking groups, as an example. Many times Admins of the groups/pages will allow them to be posted.

I have honestly found various items while out hiking- trekking poles, hats, gloves, socks, watches, water bottles, jackets, sweatshirts, sportsbra, underwear, cell phone (luckily it was on my way OUT and I left it at a Ranger station), etc. I don't at all assume it could belong to someone missing. Many (not all) will feel the same way. People drop stuff all the time getting in and out of backpacks. Sometimes I leave the items where they are (someone may circle back to look for it) or if I'm close enough, I leave them at the trailhead. In some areas this is known hiker etiquette, leaving found items at a trailhead.

If I saw a poster of a missing person where they listed items the person was believed to be wearing and carrying and I came across them. This has my attention. I personally would not touch them, flag it, get the coordinates and call LE.

 

[Sillybilly]

BUMP !!

Is there some way that Websleuths can make this any more clear ? Unless a family member is officially named a POI or suspect by LE, they are a VICTIM. THESE ARE WEBSLEUTHS RULES. The inferences and insinuations against Barbara's husband have to stop or there will be a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.

from The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.

If any member has a problem understanding the above concept, contact Tricia or any Admin or Mod via private message and we will clarify for you.

The above is one of the very basic principles of Websleuths. Do not continue to disregard it.

 

[MsBetsy]

If my dh went missing and a lawyer told me it's best if I stop talking, asking for help, give any interviews.... I'd tell HIM/HER to find another client.
Actually if my loved one went missing I'm not sure I'd need legal help, since it'd just be a missing person.
I know that RT insisted she was abducted and that foul play might have happened; hence his need to lawyer up.

You could not stop me from searching myself, begging the media for interviews to get the word out, and plastering flyers everywhere relevant !

And if they were used to hiking and according to RT they'd hiked before in the desert-- what's keeping him from looking at least now and then ?
He or they bought the fifth wheel and RT planned to take her on a hike to see the rock formation.
He planned this in the hottest part of the season.
So why not search now when it's cooler ?
Common sense.

I'm not sure what searching for her three months later is going to achieve. What if RT came across her dead body?

I would not wish that horror on anybody. Even LE does not encourage family members to search for remains, probably for that very reason. That and contaminating evidence.

I don't think Barbera ever said that Robert planned to take her on a hike to the desert in the hottest time of the season. What I remember is that she told her family they were going camping and would be out of touch during that time. She never said it was solely her husband's idea. I've never seen any evidence that he alone planned the trip. In fact by all accounts it was something they both had a common interest in.

I'm sure we would all like to think that everybody should do things the way we ourselves would do them. But the fact is, everybody responds to grief and trauma in different ways. Just because they don't think like we think means it's the wrong way to do things. It's very easy to judge other people when we haven't walked in their shoes.

Even if Robert begged the media to do another interview, it doesn't mean they would agree. After all, it took Barbara's son several weeks to finally get an interview, and even then it only made the local news, no national news picked it up.

If he has resorted to the fact that Barbara is likely deceased by now, I'm not sure what the media can do. In what way would the public be able to help? LE certainly would not want people to go out in the desert and conduct their own search.

If Robert still believed his wife was abducted, maybe he would be seeking to do interviews with the media. Or maybe he has reason to believe she is deceased and she will never be found alive. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

I'm not sure what searching for her three months later is going to achieve. What if RT came across her dead body?

I would not wish that horror on anybody. Even LE does not encourage family members to search for remains, probably for that very reason. That and contaminating evidence.

I don't think Barbera ever said that Robert planned to take her on a hike to the desert in the hottest time of the season. What I remember is that she told her family they were going camping and would be out of touch during that time. She never said it was solely her husband's idea. I've never seen any evidence that he alone planned the trip. In fact by all accounts it was something they both had a common interest in.

I'm sure we would all like to think that everybody should do things the way we ourselves would do them. But the fact is, everybody responds to grief and trauma in different ways. Just because they don't think like we think means it's the wrong way to do things. It's very easy to judge other people when we haven't walked in their shoes.

Even if Robert begged the media to do another interview, it doesn't mean they would agree. After all, it took Barbara's son several weeks to finally get an interview, and even then it only made the local news, no national news picked it up.

If he has resorted to the fact that Barbara is likely deceased by now, I'm not sure what the media can do. In what way would the public be able to help? LE certainly would not want people to go out in the desert and conduct their own search.

If Robert still believed his wife was abducted, maybe he would be seeking to do interviews with the media. Or maybe he has reason to believe she is deceased and she will never be found alive. Imo

LBM

First bolded : I was saying that if this happened to my spouse, I would go and look myself.
Certainly another SAR organized search would be helpful.
If she's out there, she needs to be brought back home.

Second bolded : I specified "he" or they" bought and planned the trip. It might have been tempting for Barbara, as a time to chill out and relax before her overseas trip --which can be stressful on even seasoned travelers.

Third bolded : You may be right about that. I certainly concur.
And it seemed like they didn't give her son enough time for an interview. Shorter than it should've been.

Fourth bolded : Again, a 2nd SAR search should be done. I myself might go and search only around the areas we'd hiked in and staying on the paths.
It's hard to believe they missed her the first time since they looked extensively in the area where she vanished.
But that's happened in other missing cases; where a previously missing person showed up in the area already searched.

As far as the public, maybe passing out flyers would still help, if someone recognized her from that day ?
Imo.

Hoping the VI will chime in; as many of my posts reflect the VI's input , even more so than what's in msm ; barring the last few articles.
There's been no update for a while, unfortunately.

 

[al66pine]

IRA. Death Certificate. Necessary?

.... Although we have no evidence that Barbara had an IRA, she sure could have. I have a couple and .... My spouse is my beneficiary.
I do believe a death cert would be necessary to change the terms....

@10ofRods bbm sbm
Yes, agreed. Before complying w request to take a distribution (IRS talk for 'withdrawal') from traditional IRA, the IRA custodian, (e.g., bank, credit union, mutual fund, brokerage, etc.) requires any beneficiary to provide Death Certificate of IRA-holder and applicable forms.
Otherwise how would custodian have incontrovertible evidence of the death? Only with/after receiving Death Cert, does the custodian review its records to verify who the IRA holder designated* as beneficiary/ies, & determine it has authority to accept instructions from appropriate beneficiary/ies.

^ holds true, even if beneficiary does not request distribution, but wants to change investments in IRA.
Ex: requests transfer of $ from maturing CD in IRA, to money market account in IRA.
Ex: requests sale of international fund shares in IRA & using proceeds to buy shares of bond fund in IRA.
Beneficiary is required to provide DeathCert & applicable forms before fin.inst. complies.
jmo
---------------------------------------------------
* IRS has a way w words. For example
"Trust as beneficiary. A trust can't be a designated beneficiary even if it is a named beneficiary."
^ from page 12, Publication 590-B Distributions from Individual Retirement Arrangements (IRAs)
^ not a typo/misprint

 

[MsBetsy]

LBM

First bolded : I was saying that if this happened to my spouse, I would go and look myself.
Certainly another SAR organized search would be helpful.
If she's out there, she needs to be brought back home.

Second bolded : I specified "he" or they" bought and planned the trip. It might have been tempting for Barbara, as a time to chill out and relax before her overseas trip --which can be stressful on even seasoned travelers.

Third bolded : You may be right about that. I certainly concur.
And it seemed like they didn't give her son enough time for an interview. Shorter than it should've been.

Fourth bolded : Again, a 2nd SAR search should be done. I myself might go and search only around the areas we'd hiked in and staying on the paths.
It's hard to believe they missed her the first time since they looked extensively in the area where she vanished.
But that's happened in other missing cases; where a previously missing person showed up in the area already searched.

As far as the public, maybe passing out flyers would still help, if someone recognized her from that day ?
Imo.

Hoping the VI will chime in; as many of my posts reflect the VI's input , even more so than what's in msm ; barring the last few articles.
There's been no update for a while, unfortunately.

Yes, it would be great if LE approved or organized another SAR search or whatever resources they have to find Barbara now that the weather is cooler.
I know the possibility of a Drone search was discussed, and I guess LE does not have the means to conduct such a search, but from what I've gathered there are still options in terms of hiring companies to conduct these types of searches.

People raise money for rewards, I don't see why money can't be raised to pay for a more extensive search.

If RT is unable or unlikely to organize another search at this time, maybe both his extended family, friends, or Barbara's family can try to find a way.
It can't hurt, and it may help to answer some questions.

I don't think LE will put much effort into searching elsewhere unless they find evidence of a crime or something that suggests Barbara was anywhere else but in the location where RT last saw her.

But, if they would at least search the area where she was last seen they may finally be able to determine what happened, if they find a body. If they find nothing then I guess they are right back where they started but at least every effort to find her will have been made. Imo

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

RT thought BT was kidnapped and I think per his statement at the beginning he was hoping she would be released somewhere in Vegas or close. I don’t think news attention and posters would have helped if that was the case and maybe that’s why he hasn’t done that.

 

[LietKynes]

This is one of the most baffling missing person's cases I've read about for some time.
I keep thinking of some others, but those were small children who'd wandered off.
I've also watched docs about Maura Murray and some others.
Maybe she'll be found in an area already searched ?
It's happened before and that's bizarre.

 

[10ofRods]

I was just thinking the exact same thing, @LietKynes. Taken at face value, we have an older couple going on a hike, she is out of his sight for 5-10 minutes, just 5-10 minutes from their truck and RV. No sign of her that her husband can see, no sign of her that searchers can find, not even a slight hint from the dogs.

There are a few others (that man missing at Mesa Verde, it's crazy - even if he was navigationally challenged, where did he go?) Maura Murray, the young man in Australia (from the past year), the Canadian man in Joshua Tree. That older man who went missing on Mt Shasta also. Of course, there are some 20+ people missing over the past 3-4 decades in Yosemite, none thought to be foul play.

I think we are all frustrated and stymied.

 

[Stripehaven]

I think missing posters are still very relevant in the sense they raise awareness. If you're on a nature walk or hike, your primary purpose is that walk/hike. If you saw a poster stating a person was missing in that area, I think most people would be prone to more purposeful/conscious scanning during the walk. JMO.

It would also alert people to be careful for their own safety, in case there is in fact a kidnapper out there.

 

[PaulR]

It would also alert people to be careful for their own safety, in case there is in fact a kidnapper out there.

If the cops thought this, they would put up explicit warning signs. I've seen them before.

Also fundraising for a search: that happened last year in Washington State, the Sam Sayers case. What a cluster that turned out to be.

 

[al66pine]

Judicial Procedure re Missing Persons

.... I think Michael Chamber's wife had him declared deceased far too soon and gained control of his assets. MOO

Briefly. IIUC {ETA: per post 915 in MC's thread} MC's wife did not have him "declared dead" but the TX court proceeding did/does allow her to have some control over (some of) his assets.
----------------------------------------------
Not so briefly. Did not follow that case, but I read post 915, in Thread #1 re Michael Chambers. A verified fam member of MC = Pmerle00, who posted in July 2017, the 'piece of paper' was Letters Testamentary, NOT Death Cert.
In this thread re BT, post 265, I posted a few paragraphs about those kinds of procedures, not specific to TX law, not to MC situation.
Not saying anything about his (purported) widow or MC's disappearance.
In the past couple yrs, there may have been developments in his case.
------------------------------------------------------
In post 265 in this thread, I summarized info re this ^ type of procedure MC's wife filed, as it's possible RT may do the same, seeking control of BT's property/assets/a'cs in AZ .
jmo, could be wrong.

 

[LietKynes]

Judicial Procedure re Missing Persons


Briefly, IIUC per MC's wife did not have him "declared dead" but the TX court proceeding did/does allow her to have some control over (some of) his assets.
----------------------------------------------
Not so briefly. Did not follow that case, but I read post 915, in Thread #1 re Michael Chambers. A verified fam member of MC = Pmerle00, who posted in July 2017, the 'piece of paper' was Letters Testamentary, NOT Death Cert.
In this thread re BT, post 265, I posted a few paragraphs about those kinds of procedures, not specific to TX law, not to MC situation.
Not saying anything about his (purported) widow or MC's disappearance.
In the past couple yrs, there may have been developments in his case.
------------------------------------------------------
In post 265 in this thread, I summarized info re this ^ type of procedure MC's wife filed, as it's possible RT may do the same, seeking control of BT's property/assets/a'cs in AZ .
jmo, could be wrong.

That's informative, thanks !

 

[Stripehaven]

If the cops thought this, they would put up explicit warning signs. I've seen them before.

Also fundraising for a search: that happened last year in Washington State, the Sam Sayers case. What a cluster that turned out to be.

I agree - I am certain the police know there wasn’t a kidnapping.

I’m in WA also, and remember the Sam Sayers case as being a horrible mess