Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[SilentRogue]

Ok so 5 years is a long time away.

What do they do between then and now to solve the case?

The same thing that the investigation team responsible for Jon Benet, Madeleine McCann, or any other cold case does - hope that some piece of information they don't presently have takes them in the right direction, which is why they had the press conference appealing to the public in April, 2019.

 

[Torch Carrier]

Quiet as a mouse. Nothing since the last PC. Almost 6 months.

@Foxfire once said generally as related to seasoned perps, “there’s a reason why he’s gotten away with it for so long”.

This guy is likely a pro SK, moo.

Everyone knows everyone in Delphi it seems. Nobody has recognized his voice, or image from the bridge.

My best guess at this time is that he was in the area for work, or has a previous connection here, and planned a trip to “hunt”.[/QUOT

Quiet as a mouse. Nothing since the last PC. Almost 6 months.

@Foxfire once said generally as related to seasoned perps, “there’s a reason why he’s gotten away with it for so long”.

This guy is likely a pro SK, moo.

Everyone knows everyone in Delphi it seems. Nobody has recognized his voice, or image from the bridge.

My best guess at this time is that he was in the area for work, or has a previous connection here, and planned a trip to “hunt”.

Margarita, with the utmost respect to you, I have to disagree. Just because WE do not hear about who all recognizes his image on the bridge or recognizes the audio clips of his voice, I feel sure someone HAS and very likely many such people have alerted LE. Around the time they started asking most adamantly for the publuc to stop posting side by sides and asked for a specific type of tip including name if possible, THIS is when I felt LE was closing in on BG's I.D.

I think they are quiet because they are busy. Busy tying it all together now since they learned (IMO) that a witness/interviewee lied to them way back when. They don't need help from the www but from locals, IMO.

MOO on all of this, of course.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Im not sure what i think anymore lol.

- its possible he is a serial killer...he's done it before and that explains his illusiveness and ability to avoid capture for over 2 years.

- There is a killer on the loose, but there doesn't/hasnt appeared to me to be a sense of urgency or expectancy that he would strike again. I dont recall a single LE officer say the standard line about other kids in danger until BG is caught. That gives me pause....makes me think no...not a serial killer.

- i think the consensus is that most see BG with something/supplies with him that he used to carry out his crime. That leads me to think heneas prepared, perhaps from previously committing a similar act?

- Does someone kill 2 girls and thats it? Perhaps if it were personal, i guessm. But it seems like whatever gratification or satisfaction he got out of it, would be a need that would have to be met again.

Ultimately I have no idea what to think anymore. Poke holes in what i posted....help me narrow down all these possibilities lol.

What about u? Do u think he is a serial killer?

I initially thought it was a serial killer. Definitely not a local. A serial killer out hunting. He had previously scouted out promising locations where people could be isolated and these trails were one of those places. I still kinda think that. The one giant thing that keeps me hanging on to that theory is that if he was a local someone shoulda/coulda/woulda recognized him and turned him in(especially with a huge reward offered).
But over time I have come to appreciate why he could be a local. The April press conference is a real head scratcher to me. The part about the vehicle at CPS sounds like LE is on to something; the part calling out the killer as a local sounds like LE knows who it is; the unveiling of a new sketch sounds like they have no idea who it is. But here we sit, months later, with no arrest.
So much contradictory information. I still can’t figure why, if he’s local, no one has turned him in.

 

[Fizzle]

Im not sure what i think anymore lol.

- its possible he is a serial killer...he's done it before and that explains his illusiveness and ability to avoid capture for over 2 years.

- There is a killer on the loose, but there doesn't/hasnt appeared to me to be a sense of urgency or expectancy that he would strike again. I dont recall a single LE officer say the standard line about other kids in danger until BG is caught. That gives me pause....makes me think no...not a serial killer.

- i think the consensus is that most see BG with something/supplies with him that he used to carry out his crime. That leads me to think heneas prepared, perhaps from previously committing a similar act?

- Does someone kill 2 girls and thats it? Perhaps if it were personal, i guessm. But it seems like whatever gratification or satisfaction he got out of it, would be a need that would have to be met again.

Ultimately I have no idea what to think anymore. Poke holes in what i posted....help me narrow down all these possibilities lol.

What about u? Do u think he is a serial killer?

My bias would be that it was personal and targeted. He was fast, he was prepared, and LE has never seemed to suggest that he is a SK. They believe he is local. That said, we don't know anything officially about the crime scene. Those details could push me more toward serial killer vs personal & targeted.

 

[Torch Carrier]

My point is pretty clear.

They have no idea who killed Abigail and Liberty.

If they have POI's, it's a generic list of sex offenders fitting the generic profile in that region.

If they had something beyond generic, they wouldn't be desperately appealing to the public - like they didn't in the Piketon, Ohio case.

I don't believe they are desperately appealing to the public. I think the April presser was very much designed/intended to stir the local community there (hopefully resulting in more info divulged) while also intended to more widely keep this crime under the spotlight, keeping pressure applied and attention fixed keenly on this guy/guys.

 

[155etta]

Welcome to WS. I wonder if there are two involved. LE said the new sketch is the person responsible for the murders, so possibly not the murderer? That and the age range brings up the possibility of an accomplice, as some posters have said maybe two brothers, friends or even father and son. The other possibility is perhaps someone 40 who looks in his 20's. It is a weird conundrum and I wish LE would clarify.

I'm toying with the idea that there was a father and son out there. I think BG is the murderer and the new sketch was the lookout or something. I think the new sketch is the son and was thrown out there in April as bait. Kind of like "fine, you won't come forward so we'll go after your son and pin it on him. You were both there." A little pressure to get him to come forward? I don't know. Who knows? The only way the sketch fiasco makes sense to me is that it's two people involved and they believe if they get the one, they get the other. MOO

 

[Fizzle]

It's an open case, sure. They have a detective assigned to it - no doubt. They're not actively pursuing any promising leads. At all.

In 5 years, the case will be officially sidelined... it's very much to early for them to publicly sideline such a high profile investigation.

How do you know that they're not actively pursuing any promising leads?

We haven't heard from them since April. Maybe their silence is exactly what you said... they have what they need now and they are nailing down the details.

Why do you think that the April PC was a Hail Mary versus a targeted message to rattle a very specific POI?

 

[jmarks005]

I figure the wide age range is to not fuel rumours or speculation they know who it is. If they said the person is 20 to 25 (as an example) then it would be too obvious LE knows who it is.

I still struggle with the second sketch, it just doesn’t seem to match BG from the (admittedly blurry) vision, but that actually gives me confidence that they are onto something.

This is insightful as well. So as not to tip him off. Makes sense.

 

[Boxer]

MOO no one knows whether the investigation is close or not, not even the investigators.
I think its a young man with plenty of watching CSI under his belt like Jamie Kloss case.
So maybe there is almost zero physical evidence. Although police have said they recovered an item, and there is some - presumably unidentified touch DNA.
Instead of paramilitary get up that Patterson wore, BG wore an "every man" outer layer.
He may have lurked around waiting for an opportunity, or MOO to me it seems more likely that he contacted them somehow and lured Libby (MOO) with promise of HS gossip.
I think the girls initially complied and walked with him because they did recognize him a little, but they couldn't immediately comprehend that someone they could recognize (from school, church, or sports) would really hurt them, even if pointing if he was pointing a gun at them, then realization hit them as they got closer to the creek. That may gave tried to run or not. I think the place they were killed is a flat between a. Creek and a cemetery is a place known to a lot local kids.

 

[kkdj]

LE said the person in the new sketch is "responsible for the murders" so they have not actually said he is the murderer so I wonder if there is an accomplice who killed them and NBG just got them off the bridge down to the crime scene. MOO.

Yes. We need to pay special attention to how LE carefully worded things.

 

[Torch Carrier]

I initially thought it was a serial killer. Definitely not a local. A serial killer out hunting. He had previously scouted out promising locations where people could be isolated and these trails were one of those places. I still kinda think that. The one giant thing that keeps me hanging on to that theory is that if he was a local someone shoulda/coulda/woulda recognized him and turned him in(especially with a huge reward offered).
But over time I have come to appreciate why he could be a local. The April press conference is a real head scratcher to me. The part about the vehicle at CPS sounds like LE is on to something; the part calling out the killer as a local sounds like LE knows who it is; the unveiling of a new sketch sounds like they have no idea who it is. But here we sit, months later, with no arrest.
So much contradictory information. I still can’t figure why, if he’s local, no one has turned him in.

I know, I know, I have often thought likewise, but- keep in mind, when someone DID (I believe)/or does "turn him in" it's not like LE is going to get before the press that very day announcing, "Hey! We know who this guy is! Everyone! It's.... "

NO. Definitely not. They would, after coming to a consensus on BG's I.D., have a LOT of work to do gathering enough together to convince the prosecutor they have a standup case. New testing sent out, re-interviews, collecting phone info, work info, computer info, whatever they can get done before making an arrest.

Maybe that 's what was meant in April by "just starting" while DC seemed to me to be chomping at the bit wanting to tell everyone so much more..

IMHO!!!!!

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Sorry....another long post from me.

Bumping this link below forward. It has been posted before.
It was brought up recently on one of the fb groups and is well worth the listen based on recent discussions here. IMO

I am 100% certain that this case is not cold.

They know more now than they did back then....someone has given them some key information to change their direction. IMO

January 15, 2018
This interview between the family, Doug Carter and Megyn Kelly is a good one although it may raise more questions now that the two sketches have been discussed extensively and DC mentions that there were no eyewitnesses (WTH? The only thing I can conclude from this statement is that he meant eyewitnesses to the actual crime.....because they have mentioned info being provided by 'witnesses' in msm many times, distributed two sketches, as well as stated, 'we have a witness' at the April presser.)

Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

This first part of the discussion is a recap of what happened to the girls then Megyn talks with the families.

To paraphrase some of the info, Becky says that they wouldn't have had anything without Libby videoing the guy, Kelsi doesn't think that Libby would have willingly gone with anyone 'down the hill' unless he had a weapon and forced/threatened her, she would have fought back if there was no weapon......Anna doesn't believe that it was anyone that they know, if it was someone they knew there wouldn't have been any alarm to video the killer.

At around 8:40 mark Carter answers some questions about the crime. Some of the key info:

MK:"Do you know whether it was a conscious choice to press record......"(then some discussion about whether she had an i-phone)

DC:" We believe it was a conscious choice by her because what was happening was not normal, but that's speculative at this time."

10:25 mark

MK: "Have there been any other similar crimes Doug, similar M.O.'s in the area?"

DC: "Well we believe that a person that would commit a crime like this with such incredibly evil intent likely has committed that crime before, and with that known and he likely will commit it again."

MK: "Can you tell the age of this man?"

DC: "We can't."

MK: "You don't know. And not even a range."

DC: "I think a range would be speculative at this point in time, obviously a grown man."

MK: "Were there any eyewitnesses who actually saw him?"

DC: "No there were not."

MK: "Other than obviously the girls..."

I have stated this before....I believe that the April presser was designed to put the squeeze on a specific person that LE has in their sights. They want him to squirm and make another mistake, confess to someone or have an alibi clue in to what they know that they may not realize they know.

The statements made by DC were not arbitrary.
They were too pointed and specific to be a 'hail mary' or a stab in the dark.

The 'uncovering' of the sketch was to get a reaction from someone who was being watched 'nearby' or 'who may be in the room'.

I think he was being filmed as the presser happened and that his reaction of the sketch being unveiled was captured.

All JMO and thoughts based on recent discussion and by re-watching this video.

Let's all hope that Abby and Libby and their families get the justice they deserve very soon!

 

[SilentRogue]

How do you know that they're not actively pursuing any promising leads?

We haven't heard from them since April. Maybe their silence is exactly what you said... they have what they need now and they are nailing down the details.

Why do you think that the April PC was a Hail Mary versus a targeted message to rattle a very specific POI?

Maybe they do have something that they didn't have in April, but I doubt it.

The April PC was very clearly a broad appeal for general information. If they had a specific I individual in mind, the pressure would localized. A new sketch that could resemble any white guy USA, an age rage that includes 30% of American men, and a qualifier that he had lived, worked, or currently lives in Delphi is obviously not going to make any assailant nervous.

Now, if they said something like "we have reason to believe based on evidence we have gathered that our suspect is a local male, approx. 20 years of age, that we are currently investigating...." I'd believe they have a specific person in mind.

If they really want to put pressure on him, its pretty easy to get a warrant to look at school/work attendence records, harrass friends, get a warrant to search his home and/or vehicle.

 

[FinePrint]

I find it strange BG hasnt taunted in some way. Whether it be to police, or on social media/message board.

Killing 2 girls, being recorded, and getting away with it? Seems like he wouldnt be able to contain that...he would have to boast in some way.

I think he has made contact with LE in some why. That, in my own opinion was the reason for much of the scripted April press conference..."you want to know what we know".

 

[FinePrint]

I doubt he talks about it to anyone. Maybe he keeps a journal of some sort? Do you think BG is a serial killer?

To add to that I wonder if he is a trophy kind of monster. I wonder if LE knows of something missing from the girls that BG took as a trophy.

 

[Falling Down]

I initially thought it was a serial killer. Definitely not a local. A serial killer out hunting. He had previously scouted out promising locations where people could be isolated and these trails were one of those places. I still kinda think that. The one giant thing that keeps me hanging on to that theory is that if he was a local someone shoulda/coulda/woulda recognized him and turned him in(especially with a huge reward offered).
But over time I have come to appreciate why he could be a local. The April press conference is a real head scratcher to me. The part about the vehicle at CPS sounds like LE is on to something; the part calling out the killer as a local sounds like LE knows who it is; the unveiling of a new sketch sounds like they have no idea who it is. But here we sit, months later, with no arrest.

I appreciate them finally coming out about the vehicle close to the CPS building. One issue I have though is there has been no vehicle description. There had to have been multiple eyewitnesses who saw the vehicle parked along C.R. 300.

I've known about a vehicle being parked in that vicinity, for 2+ years I've known, but again, I question why LE waited so long to mention a vehicle, the wait to release the video, the wait to release the "Guys..." part of the audio.

There's a vague description of the vehicle in the Iowa case from 2012, but at least it's a description. Just using that case for comparison's sake.

Why wait on any of that stuff?

So much contradictory information. I still can’t figure why, if he’s local, no one has turned him in.

Which is why I don't think he's local, or at the very least doesn't live there.

 

[BNA]

Welcome to WS. I wonder if there are two involved. LE said the new sketch is the person responsible for the murders, so possibly not the murderer? That and the age range brings up the possibility of an accomplice, as some posters have said maybe two brothers, friends or even father and son. The other possibility is perhaps someone 40 who looks in his 20's. It is a weird conundrum and I wish LE would clarify.

I wonder about the meaning of the word "secondary."

 

[BNA]

If they really want to put pressure on him, its pretty easy to get a warrant to look at school/work attendence records, harrass friends, get a warrant to search his home and/or vehicle.

Which is why I have asked if there is any way to see if any cease and desist orders, or something like that, have been filed. Did not notice anybody answering that question, maybe nobody noticed my questions on that amidst all the unending circular discussions. IDK how to find that out, or if it would show us anything of value one way or the other. I just think it is an avenue that ought to be looked at.

I think you are right, if they had a POI, they ought to be all over that guy. That is what would generate some useful tips, imho.

FWIW, I think your general opinion here is likely close to the truth. I think it is largely cold, largely due to ineptitude and probably some confirmation bias on the part of LE. Such a shame.

As I have said several times, it was very telling to me that there were not more LE at that podium on 4/22, compared to the large contingent present at an early PC. Telling in a not good way.

 

[scadagirl28]

I am hoping the crime scene was unusual . I think this what a prosecutor told Gray Hughes. If so , then maybe his choice of COD , weapon or placement of the girls gave him a sort of signature. Technology is moving fast and I hope by standing out he sealed his fate.

 

[Tealgrove]

TBH I have been here since day 1 and my thoughts have changed on many occasions.

I don't really know what to think anymore. The last PC rocked me back on my heels and I've had a really hard time "seeing" BG differently from the original sketch. My mind can't go there and I think this is a BIG problem for LE. If I can't reset and move on, I am imagining that many others are having the same issue.

They spent so much time on the original sketch and that's who we were all looking for and now it's all changed.

Deep down, I believe that a family member is suspicious but can't pull the trigger on calling LE. It's traumatic and they probably are fighting an internal battle as to whether they are right or wrong. To be right is horrible. To be wrong could be even worse for them.

I don't believe that LE has someone in their sights. If they did, and they have DNA from the crime scene, they would have found a way by now to get DNA from a suspect without their knowledge. They would know if they had a match. A cigarette butt here, a straw, a coffee cup, etc. It's done all the time. So they either have a suspect but don't have DNA, or they don't have a suspect period.

I don't know what it's going to take to solve this crime but time is ticking and I think we all know that it is COLD. Very cold. But how can it be cold when we have video of the murderer and his voice? Seriously - how can this guy not be found?

All MOO. My head hurts every time I think about Abby and Libby. My heart hurts even more.

No other similar murders in over two years? Anywhere? Has this guy left? I used to think he was local but now............

One day I'm going to wake up and see ARREST in the heading of this thread and it will be done. One day.