Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #48

[Ms Kite]

Ms Kite,
Well done on the map of relationships! It's really easy to follow, and actually even beautiful, IMO. Great work.

The only possible gaps I could find (and I'm not sure these witnesses qualify as "key people", so please feel free to leave them out if you prefer):
- appearing at the inquest on Wed 14 August 2019: TP and MM, reporting a possible sighting of a possibly dodgy white Holden Commodore;
- appearing at the inquest on Wed 28 August 2019: KC, reporting her knowledge of TJ (and in a quick search I was unable to find mention of her name anywhere except in Lia's tweets and here on WebSleuths, by the way... which is a bit strange, IMO).

Thank you . Happy to add them in. Do you happen to know whether TP & MM are connected to GO via darts? Are they also connected to BS? Apologies... I did try to search the threads/MSM.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank you . Happy to add them in. Do you happen to know whether TP & MM are connected to GO via darts? Are they also connected to BS? Apologies... I did try to search the threads/MSM.

BBM

"It was sort of driving crazily and that ... it wasn't Bill Spedding but it was like he was saying someone that might have been around that circle," said Mr Palmer, adding that he "got the feeling" that Mr McInally knew the person who was driving the white Holden Commodore.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/mic...uest-told-of-white-sedan-20190814-p52h46.html

 

[interested64]

FD said in one of the podcasts I have just listened to again that they had visited about half a dozen times that year.

would this mean the bf would be informed every time they went to visit ?

 

[interested64]

"It was sort of driving crazily and that ... it wasn't Bill Spedding but it was like he was saying someone that might have been around that circle," said Mr Palmer, adding that he "got the feeling" that Mr McInally knew the person who was driving the white Holden Commodore.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/mic...uest-told-of-white-sedan-20190814-p52h46.html

circle...what is this i wonder for him to say that...interesting indeed

 

[SouthAussie]

would this mean the bf would be informed every time they went to visit ?

No, somewhere back in the threads we found that the foster family had a 'blanket approval' from FACS to take the children to visit FGM in Kendall. So they didn't have to apply every time they went there.

IIRC the bio family did not have to be/would not have been informed of anything.

ETA: here is one link.
They had visited her parents’ house at Benaroon Drive several times with the children, so that she had sought a “bulk approval” for visits, as required by the Salvation Army case worker supervisor.
Inside the divided inquest into the three-year-old’s disappearance

 

[interested64]

No, somewhere back in the threads we found that the foster family had a 'blanket approval' from FACS to take the children to visit FGM in Kendall. So they didn't have to apply every time they went there.

IIRC the bio family did not have to be/would not have been informed of anything.

Thanks

 

[Ms Kite]

Updated relationships map to include:
KC
MM
TP
JN (bloke who has claimed in the past to be WT's 'real father' & his mother (SN).

 

[interested64]

Updated relationships map to include:
KC
MM
TP
JN (bloke who has claimed in the past to be WT's 'real father' & his mother (SN).

can you tell me how MS son fits into this ? i think ive missed something

 

[deugirtni]

.... It was not the first time the family had visited Kendall, but their visits had become more frequent in recent months after William’s grandfather died earlier in the year.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

FD said in one of the podcasts I have just listened to again that they had visited about half a dozen times that year.

RSBM

I guess it is possible they may have visited six times *prior* to FGF's funeral, between January 1st and when he passed away in February that year, but the FPs have stated it was the first time they had visited *since* then. At time of disappearance in September, W was 3yrs/3mos. Back in February he would've only been 2yrs/8mos. Not sure how much he may have been seen by neighbours when he was so little, as I would suspect the younger he was, the FPs may have kept him closer to them.

From FP's Police Interview released to media April 2015 :

FM: (12:26) And my dad passed away in February that year, so that was really the first time we’d been back since Dad had passed away. (FD: Yeah.)

Video | news.com.au — Australia’s #1 news site

Also at this link from our WS member richieswan's youtube channel at around 12:30:

 

[SouthAussie]

Updated relationships map to include:
KC
MM
TP
JN (bloke who has claimed in the past to be WT's 'real father' & his mother (SN).

Thinking about Donohoe sitting out there all on his own in your chart.

There was this post from JLZ .... though I don't know what the GO-RD connection is (maybe JLZ or someone else remembers?)

Remember there's a link between GO and RD (darts?; RD was thought to be trying to implicate GO). Then FA is mentioned as someone GO knew at least by sight. I wonder about a connection between RD and FA then. Especially if, as was suggested above, FA is in gaol.
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #45

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM

I guess it is possible they may have visited six times *prior* to FGF's funeral, between January 1st and when he passed away in February that year, but the FPs have stated it was the first time they had visited *since* then. At time of disappearance in September, W was 3yrs/3mos. Back in February he would've only been 2yrs/8mos. Not sure how much he may have been seen by neighbours when he was so little, as I would suspect the younger he was, the FPs may have kept him closer to them.

From FP's Police Interview released to media April 2015 :

FM: (12:26) And my dad passed away in February that year, so that was really the first time we’d been back since Dad had passed away. (FD: Yeah.)

Video | news.com.au — Australia’s #1 news site

Also at this link from our WS member richieswan's youtube channel at around 12:30:

I wonder what 'really the first time' means. That they had been back but it was for business - will, clear FGD's clothes, house sales contract - and not a real visit?

Just wondering, because it was FM & FD speaking in the podcast as well. Not Lia repeating their words.

Also, I am not sure over what year period FD meant for the half a dozen visits. I would have to go back and listen to it all again. From memory, I think his point was that William had been there at least a half a dozen times in 'recent' times and knew the place quite well.

If I can find which podcast it was again (I have taken a few separate notes from those that I have relistened to) I will transcribe it, just so we all know what they said in the podcast.

 

[Ms Kite]

can you tell me how MS son fits into this ? i think ive missed something

He has been mentioned in various ways. I'm not casting shade. Just showing a link.

 

[Ms Kite]

Thinking about Donohoe sitting out there all on his own in your chart.

There was this post from JLZ .... though I don't know what the GO-RD connection is (maybe JLZ or someone else remembers?)

Remember there's a link between GO and RD (darts?; RD was thought to be trying to implicate GO). Then FA is mentioned as someone GO knew at least by sight. I wonder about a connection between RD and FA then. Especially if, as was suggested above, FA is in gaol.
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #45

I had seen this too - can anyone elaborate/corroborate?

 

[SouthAussie]

I had seen this too - can anyone elaborate/corroborate?

Looking a little further, it might be about darts.

I see this post by tbl .... the posts immediately prior were speaking of Donohoe. It could be in Lia's tweets from August 17th-18th or so.

He is asked about a man named Geoff Owen, who he played darts with. He tells the court he didn’t know him well. Mr Owen is also expected to testify in the coming days.
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #43


ETA: I just went through Lia's tweets (15th August for Donohoe) and it is not there. If it was from Donohoe's testimony, it has been suppressed and therefore deleted. It is also not showing up as a link any more in tbl's post - making me think that Lia deleted it after she posted the tweet.

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM

I guess it is possible they may have visited six times *prior* to FGF's funeral .... <RSBM>

I stand corrected. Sorry. It is not six times 'in a year'. What is actually said is in the first podcast.

10:50
Lia: They had been to Kendall before many times with both of the kids. They both knew it very well. The kids had their own toys there, they knew the house, so it was a pretty normal weekend.
FD: It was normally a long weekend, like a Friday/Saturday/Sunday or a Saturday/Sunday/Monday or something like that. Might be once every three or four months. Especially Nana’s birthday or there might be an occasion but also a good time to catch up. So probably about a half a dozen times.
FM: We would go out, they were young so … quite limited with what you do with young children. And there was a street party, so went to the street party.
FD & FM: Christmas party
FM: It was more family oriented, rather than go out and engage with lots of people. My parents were elderly, so we were spending time with them.

The Little Boy in the Spiderman Suit

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder what 'really the first time' means. That they had been back but it was for business - will, clear FGD's clothes, house sales contract - and not a real visit?

Just wondering, because it was FM & FD speaking in the podcast as well. Not Lia repeating their words.

Also, I am not sure over what year period FD meant for the half a dozen visits. I would have to go back and listen to it all again. From memory, I think his point was that William had been there at least a half a dozen times in 'recent' times and knew the place quite well.

If I can find which podcast it was again (I have taken a few separate notes from those that I have relistened to) I will transcribe it, just so we all know what they said in the podcast.

Yes, thank you, that would be helpful.

 

[bearbear]

LYING IN WAIT?
THE person who abducted toddler William Tyrell may have laid in wait until the nearby houses were empty before striking, a neighbour believes.

Judy Wilson, whose property adjoins William’s grandmother’s backyard, believes it may be more than just coincidence that the child disappeared only after she went to run errands in town.

She said someone could have been waiting for her to leave, potentially aware that the neighbour on the other side was also away.

“If someone was watching the house, they would’ve seen me leave and would’ve known the other neighbour was away,” she said

Her theory emerged as it was revealed that a second access point to the street could hold the key to cracking the case.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

yes, ive always wondered about the wilsons, they were the closest neighbours and just through the shrubbery at the back/side, mrs wilson went out but did mr w?
wonder if they were called to give evidence at the inquest?
they have since moved away

 

[Wexford]

can you tell me how MS son fits into this ? i think ive missed something

"Mick physically said to me it wasn't Spedding but the whole idea that Mick was saying to me ... it was someone trying to set up Spedding. Maybe Spedding's son or stepson, trying to set Spedding up. That was the thing Mick was getting across to me," Mr Palmer said.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/mic...uest-told-of-white-sedan-20190814-p52h46.html

 

[stormbird]

My thinking was if no one saw the children that were there that morning, how could a perp. have seen them either? Because the window of opportunity was so small for an abduction IMO.
I think someone definitely saw them in order to take WT.

Karinna,

That's a good point. There are probably not many places where the offender(s) could have been standing/sitting/hiding which would allow a clear view of wherever William was. There are so many trees in and around the yards that there are probably only a limited number of vantage points.

But the complicating factor is that no one other than William and the offender(s) knows where he went (if anywhere) after he was seen by FFC going around the corner of the house. Even if there are a limited number of vantage points, the number of possible locations might be limited only by how far a small child could run or walk?

 

[stormbird]

Thank you . Happy to add them in. Do you happen to know whether TP & MM are connected to GO via darts? Are they also connected to BS? Apologies... I did try to search the threads/MSM.

Ms Kite,

I haven't seen that TP is connected to GO, but there are posts in earlier threads showing that MM and GO played darts together:
- Thebottomline: thread 43, post 923 (the link there now goes to a 404 Not Found, but maybe there are members who got a screenshot earlier?);
- gaeilge: thread 43, post 912 (and doing a Google search of the Camden Haven Courier e.g.
site:www*camdencourier*com*au "sports round-up"
- but replacing the asterisks with dots - gives results similar to the report posted by gaeilge, across a number of years).

The only reference to BS that I've seen in relation to them is that MM said he didn't know him:
"[MM] is asked if he knew Bill Spedding and he tells the court he didn’t. He is also asked if he knew Mr Owen drove a White sedan and he said he didn’t."
- a @LiaJHarris tweet, thanks to @Thebottomline (thread 43, post 827)

I'm unable to view your updated map, by the way. Clicking on the link just makes my browser try to download a few files, which it won't do