Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[otto]

Unfortunately, several of Jesse Matthew's co-workers saw a resemblance between the sketch and Mathew, but chose to make jokes about it instead of calling in a tip. I wonder how many in this case see a resemblance between the sketch and the killer but choose not to call it in. "Oh, it couldn't be my co-worker. He is too nice."

Then Hannah Graham was murdered.

The sketch had been associated with Morgan Harrington and the unnamed rape victim for years, yet no one put a finger on Jesse Matthews until they saw video where he turned around on the street and followed Hannah. Then we saw his photo with his taxi. Only afterward was it possible to make a connection between Hannah, Morgan, and the unnamed rape victim.

If nursing staff thought that Matthews was the man who murdered Morgan Harrington and violently raped another woman, how could they make jokes? Did no one identify with #me too? Did they not realize what they knew? Paul Bernardo was an unlikely accountant and suspect, but someone called it in. Unfortunately, due to backlog, it was not analyzed for another year - more victims.

Back to the point, there must be someone who knows the suspect in the murders of two your girls on remote trails - someone who knows his voice when he's trying to sound scary.

 

[otto]

If one were to have planned such an atrocity with a partner, it would certainly be an ideal location to do so, especially for someone with intimate knowledge of the area.

Small towns are a curious culture. People talk about other people’s lives and become quite “nosey” at times about other people’s behavior. At the same time, there are often big secrets. Secrets that are fiercely protected, sometimes with intimidation or violence. The police think people will be shocked when the murderer is revealed. Someone knows something. Someone is protecting someone else...or they are protecting themself and/or their family. MOO

Let's imagine that two people were involved in both abductions. It seems possible. In the first abduction, where Lyric and Elizabeth were lured to a remote part of the trail, at a gate, and then vanished, and where Abby and Libby walked to the other side of the bridge on a remote part of the trail, and then vanished ... neither had any other way out once they arrived. Why was that?

Was there a second person under the bridge, was there a second person on the other side of the gate? Was one person able to take control once he lured them to his chosen location?

 

[moonlessnight]

my POI would have been just the age to get his DL at the time of E & L. I would love to know if he took any trips that summer...

ETA - I do know he has been traveling the US intermittently over the past few years and plans to continue. I wonder what he does in his travels?

Where's @afitzy when you need her! What if we compiled everything we know about the two situations.

For example, both on remote areas of popular trails. How far are the trails from home?

Both may have been lured digitally, but there is no trail. The suspect does seem to be disguised and over-dressed for the day, and he probably disguised his voice as well.

He probably parked at the cemetery. When Lyric and Elizabeth were lured and killed, they parked their bikes at a gate where they could walk along the water to a secluded former party spot - easy to park and hide a vehicle. Vehicle nearby, Lyric and Elizabeth were murdered at another former popular spot for children's camps and fishing/hunting. Abby and Libby were murdered at a popular fishing spot.

There are similarities beyond murders on the 13th.

 

[otto]

Now that I think of it, that was one of the questions that came up about Lyric and Elizabeth being in trouble with their bikes leaned against the fence - why couldn't they just jump on their bikes and ride off. Maybe someone was standing on the other side of their bikes?

Why couldn't Abby and Libby slide down the hill and run? What stopped them?

 

[otto]

my POI would have been just the age to get his DL at the time of E & L. I would love to know if he took any trips that summer...

The person who met Lyric and her cousin was older, and may have been even older than they thought, but young looking. I'm not tied to any age with the Evansdale cousin abductions/murders.

I think there's some sort of industry connection between Evansdale and Delphi - pork, corn, something where employees may work in both locations ... anyone remember the company?

 

[moonlessnight]

I was almost mugged (or worse) and I was actually on my bike. I froze and it didn't occur to me to ride away. I asked a couple of people to stop and wait with me and the attacker diverted.
You never know how you'll react in these situations unless you've been trained in self defense, and even then....

Now that I think of it, that was one of the questions that came up about Lyric and Elizabeth being in trouble with their bikes leaned against the fence - why couldn't they just jump on their bikes and ride off. Maybe someone was standing on the other side of their bikes?

Why couldn't Abby and Libby slide down the hill and run? What stopped them?

 

[moonlessnight]

I never heard that - how is that known? Was there a witness? Maybe he looked older than he was, sort of like BG?

The person who met Lyric and her cousin was older, and may have been even older than they thought, but young looking. I'm not tied to any age with the Evansdale cousin abductions/murders.

I think there's some sort of industry connection between Evansdale and Delphi - pork, corn, something where employees may work in both locations ... anyone remember the company?

 

[otto]

I never heard that - how is that known? Was there a witness? Maybe he looked older than he was, sort of like BG?

A couple of days before Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted from a remote part of the trail near Elizabeth's house, Lyric and her older cousin went to a park near Lyric's house. Lyric was late returning home. With parents and police on the phone, Lyric arrived at home. A couple of days later she was actually gone at a different park.

Lyric was visiting her cousin Elizabeth, and their grandmother was looking after all the children - Heather's children and Lyric. Elizabeth and Lyric took their bikes and did circles in the back alley. They came in for a drink of juice, ran out again, the grandmother checked and they were cycling circles in the nearby shopping center parking lot, then they were gone. The grandmother knew to search the park right away, even though Elizabeth was not allowed to ride to the park.

I think the man in the photo that abducted and murdered Abby and Libby is younger than he looks, that he is over-dressed and sounding hoarse in the video.

 

[Boxer]

Dbm

The person who met Lyric and her cousin was older, and may have been even older than they thought, but young looking. I'm not tied to any age with the Evansdale cousin abductions/murders.

I think there's some sort of industry connection between Evansdale and Delphi - pork, corn, something where employees may work in both locations ... anyone remember the compant

Indiana Packers?

 

[otto]

Are there any parallels between Abby and Libby where one was in contact with someone unknown and maybe a digital connection that can't be traced? One has a connection to a friend going to a park just prior to their murders?

 

[busymcmoody]

Just curious Gracie, are you thinking that there may have been more than one assailant against Abby and Libby?

I actually thought that for a while - "Guys, down the hill" could have also been directed at other assailants. I dropped that thought pretty quickly though.

 

[Dontknow?]

The thing about the Lyric abduction is that she was lured to a different park with her somewhat older female cousin a day or two before she took Elizabeth to the trail when their grandmother was not looking. Lyric took younger Elizabeth to the park trail near Elizabeth's house, even though she didn't live in the area. Elizabeth knew she was not supposed to go there, even though she was allowed to ride to visit a friend who lived near the park.

Lyric's parents called police a day or two before the abduction because Lyric was at a different park to meet a man through Lyric's cousin.

Maybe the man that abducted Abby and Libby was 31, and the man who abducted Lyric looked younger than 26. Lyric and Elizabeth were taken away in a vehicle. Their bikes and Elizabeth's purse were left behind at the isolated gate on the trail.

Is there's some sort of pig or corn industry that has employees in Iowa and Indiana?

That's been my thought of a possible connection between the two. Pig farm. The one guy arrested/released, in the white van in Evansdale at the gas station was the son of a pork distributor, I think? Maybe owner of a pig farm. They sold sausages etc... iirc. He lived on a street between Elizabeth's home and the lake. Not that this family did it, but it was connected to pigs. Just one thought.

Delphi has the factory not far from the bridge. Indiana Packers. I've read they were hiring also. Don't have a link but it was posted here somewhere.

 

[PaulaDC]

A couple of days before Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted from a remote part of the trail near Elizabeth's house, Lyric and her older cousin went to a park near Lyric's house. Lyric was late returning home. With parents and police on the phone, Lyric arrived at home. A couple of days later she was actually gone at a different park.

Lyric was visiting her cousin Elizabeth, and their grandmother was looking after all the children - Heather's children and Lyric. Elizabeth and Lyric took their bikes and did circles in the back alley. They came in for a drink of juice, ran out again, the grandmother checked and they were cycling circles in the nearby shopping center parking lot, then they were gone. The grandmother knew to search the park right away, even though Elizabeth was not allowed to ride to the park.

I think the man in the photo that abducted and murdered Abby and Libby is younger than he looks, that he is over-dressed and sounding hoarse in the video.

I've never read anything about the days before the Iowa abductions. Do you have a link for that?
Also, this is a pretty well written article about what has happened on that case. They obviously know more than we do as in Abby and Libby's case as they can rule out suspects.
The Evansdale Murders — Unresolved

 

[PaulaDC]

I'll just leave this here for something to mull over.......

 

[otto]

Dbm

Indiana Packers?

Not sure what this is: looking for Indiana Packers activity in Iowa and Indiana. Are all of these places connected to Indiana Packers corn fed pigs transportation?

Maybe salesmen who like to fish travel between Delphi and Waterloo.

"The fact sheet states that all federally inspected establishments are eligible for export to China, except for 32 specific plants identified below:

Indiana Packers Corp., Delphi, Indiana; Meadowbrook Farms Cooperative, Rantoul, Illinois; John Morrell & Co., Sioux City, Iowa; Equity Group Georgia Division, Camilla, Georgia; Koch Foods of Mississippi LLC, Morton, Mississippi; Columbia Farms, Greenville, South Carolina; Pilgrim's Corporation, Athens, Georgia; Michigan Turkey Producers, LLC, Wyoming, Michigan; Koch Foods, LLC, Morristown, Tennessee; Koch Foods, LLC, Chattanooga, Tennessee; NOCS South Atlantic, North Charleston, South Carolina; Jennie-O Turkey Store Sales, LLC, Willmar, Minnesota; Tyson Fresh Meats Inc., Columbus Jct., Iowa; Swift Pork Company, Marshalltown, Iowa; Cloverleaf Cold Storage, Sioux City, Iowa; Premium Iowa Pork, Hospers, Iowa; Tyson Fresh Meats Inc., Waterloo, Iowa; Transcontinental Cold Storage, Sioux City, Iowa; Seaboard Foods, Guymon, Oklahoma; Quality Pork Processors, Inc., Austin, Minnesota; Cloverleaf Cold Storage of Fairmont, Fairmont, Minnesota; Frozen Assets Cold Storage, Chicago, Illinois; Triumph Foods, St. Joseph, Missouri; Nor-Am Cold Storage, Inc, St. Joseph, Missouri; Millard Refrigerated Services, Edwardsville, Kansas; Tyson Fresh Meats, Inc, Perry, Iowa; Tyson Fresh Meats, Inc, Logansport, Indiana; Tyson Fresh Meats, Inc, Storm Lake, Iowa; Hanson Cold Storage Co., Logansport, Indiana; Hormel Foods Corp., Fremont, Nebraska; Americold Logistics LLC, Fremont, Nebraska; Fulton Market Cold Storage, Lyons, Illinois.​

Meat Plants That Don't Use Ractopamine Can Now Sell to China

 

[PaulaDC]

Remember TB? Here's an update:
Innocence Project: Thomas Bruce might be serial killer responsible for 1985 murder in Tennessee

 

[otto]

I've never read anything about the days before the Iowa abductions. Do you have a link for that?
Also, this is a pretty well written article about what has happened on that case. They obviously know more than we do as in Abby and Libby's case as they can rule out suspects.
The Evansdale Murders — Unresolved

It's been 7 years, finding the link will take time - the articles about social media that Lyric was using, connections to her cousin, the night they were late returning home when Lyric's parents called police. The cousin did not give any more information about who they met at the park.

Police in Evansdale and Delphi know more than we do, but what if we put everything they both know together - what does that look like?

It hasn't been ruled out that there is a connection, just that there's no evidence of a connection. The Evansdale bones and shoes may not have DNA.

 

[otto]

There was a similarity between victims with Jesse Matthews, and we see a similarity between Evansdale and Delphi victims, what does that tell us about the next victims?

 

[mpnola]

Now that I think of it, that was one of the questions that came up about Lyric and Elizabeth being in trouble with their bikes leaned against the fence - why couldn't they just jump on their bikes and ride off. Maybe someone was standing on the other side of their bikes?

Why couldn't Abby and Libby slide down the hill and run? What stopped them?

Several airplanes full of adults were hijacked on 9/11 with a box cutter....
Entire bars or banks or grocery stores are held hostage with one single an with a gun...

It's not reasonable to think adults, much less children, could just easily mosey on out of a dangerous situation. I think it's only from the comfort of a telephone or computer screen can such getaways be formulated. I suspect they are much less rare in real situations. Especially when there is a gun and they are told dont fight and they wont her hurt. Or whatever.

 

[HEY YOU!]

If you look at the oversized jacket that BG was wearing, it appears he has a large item near his right hand. I believe this is a large, legally owned gun that he used to control the girls.