"personal hygeine" of JB

[armywife210]

There have been posts here and there about Jonbenet being douched now and again or something like that.... do we know where this came from, if it's fact? I don't know where / when I read it, or why I didn't jump all over that info.... because it would certainly seem beyond odd.

 

[Ames]

There have been posts here and there about Jonbenet being douched now and again or something like that.... do we know where this came from, if it's fact? I don't know where / when I read it, or why I didn't jump all over that info.... because it would certainly seem beyond odd.

ColoradoKares...a poster here, that lived in Boulder the same time as JB and her family...says that she knows someone personally that knew the Ramsey's ....that said that JB was douched on a regular basis.

 

[armywife210]

ColoradoKares...a poster here, that lived in Boulder the same time as JB and her family...says that she knows someone personally that knew the Ramsey's ....that said that JB was douched on a regular basis.

It makes no sense. why would a 6 year old need to be douched? It could be the reason for infections... but certainly not something that anyone would suggest to help with them. Do you think it's reliable information?

 

[Ames]

It makes no sense. why would a 6 year old need to be douched? It could be the reason for infections... but certainly not something that anyone would suggest to help with them. Do you think it's reliable information?

Yep, I think it is, CK wouldn't lie about it.

It seems that she was douched as punishment for wetting and soiling herself. The housekeeper said that she used to hear JB screaming in the bathroom...(and Patsy would be in there with her). It probably just started out as something that she would do for extra cleansing...when JB wet or soiled herself. But, she probably got the idea....to tell JB that she was going to KEEP on getting the douching treatments, as long as she continued to wet and soil herself.

 

[armywife210]

Well there is no wonder why she got infections then.
Do you think that she could have gotten douched for wetting or soiling that night? Perhaps they were in JB's bathroom, maybe JB's flashlight was in there also. JB wasn't holding still because she didn't like it and it was hurting, Patsy clocked her hard with the first thing she could reach, maybe the flashlight... and maybe a couple of times. Her hymen could have ripped a little more and caused bleeding, and causing the pain and JB's crying. After she clocked her, JB went down.
Wasn't there soiled underwear in her bathroom?

 

[BOESP]

It makes no sense. why would a 6 year old need to be douched? It could be the reason for infections... but certainly not something that anyone would suggest to help with them. Do you think it's reliable information?

Vinegar douches or baking soda douches used to be a home remedy. I'm not saying this is what happened in JonBenet's case but I can see a mother passing an old-wive's-tale remedy down in the family. It was once a common practice. Feminine hygiene mist seems to have replaced the practice. I can't imagine doing that to a child but I know some people who have.

 

[armywife210]

Yea but it's a commonly known fact that douching often cause infections.
Who does that to a six year old who still has a hymen (and should have had one more intact)?
You know she didn't make her own home remedy. She bought the boxed kind from the store.
I wonder now if JB ever was even sexually abused. Was the trauma that may have been seen from douching? Anything that you shove up there will cause tearing of the hymen and whatever else.
The paintbrush could just have been used to cover the fact that Patsy saw blood from the douching... thus getting the finger pointing the other way.

 

[coloradokares]

Vinegar douches or baking soda douches used to be a home remedy. I'm not saying this is what happened in JonBenet's case but I can see a mother passing an old-wive's-tale remedy down in the family. It was once a common practice. Feminine hygiene mist seems to have replaced the practice. I can't imagine doing that to a child but I know some people who have.

It is hard to imagine and although that is strongly what was believed to be taking place "corporal cleaning" believe this was happening , becausen of where I learned about it from. Unless you are on the same side of the door the screaming is coming from....how do you swear it? But many credible in the know sourcesbelieved this occured I p ersonally did not know the Ramseys,but with what I do know I believe it credible.

 

[Ames]

Well there is no wonder why she got infections then.
Do you think that she could have gotten douched for wetting or soiling that night? Perhaps they were in JB's bathroom, maybe JB's flashlight was in there also. JB wasn't holding still because she didn't like it and it was hurting, Patsy clocked her hard with the first thing she could reach, maybe the flashlight... and maybe a couple of times. Her hymen could have ripped a little more and caused bleeding, and causing the pain and JB's crying. After she clocked her, JB went down.
Wasn't there soiled underwear in her bathroom?

Now thats a thought...I believe that there was some soiled underwear inside of some inside out pants on her bedroom floor.

 

[BOESP]

It is hard to imagine and although that is strongly what was believed to be taking place "corporal cleaning, and I fir once believe this was happening cause of where I leard about it from. Unless you are on the same side of the door the screaming is coming from....how do you swear it? But many credible in the know, eem ti find this credible.

I had wondered what "corporal cleaning" was. I thought maybe it was an enema. (That is speculation only!)

 

[armywife210]

I don't want to get too graphic, but if she was unhappy and uncomfortable with this procedure she would be yelling. If Patsy got angry and told her to quiet down before she woke her brother... but Jonbenet wouldn't... maybe she whacked her a couple of times. If that applicator was inside of her when she went down (or if she had been really struggling) it might have caused bleeding.... this being something that Patsy would cover for later with the paintbrush... after wiping her clean with a washcloth.
Upon the whack with the flashlight, she hit her head on something on the way down to cause the other fracture.

 

[JMO8778]

I don't want to get too graphic, but if she was unhappy and uncomfortable with this procedure she would be yelling. If Patsy got angry and told her to quiet down before she woke her brother... but Jonbenet wouldn't... maybe she whacked her a couple of times. If that applicator was inside of her when she went down (or if she had been really struggling) it might have caused bleeding.... this being something that Patsy would cover for later with the paintbrush... after wiping her clean with a washcloth.
Upon the whack with the flashlight, she hit her head on something on the way down to cause the other fracture.

yep,I'd thought about that,could be,Thomas states he thinks something similar occured,(it's in his book),and he believes she was being corporally cleaned.(although it was the result of bedwetting).but with her shirt collar being twisted,and the knuckle abrasions on her,it would seem she was being forced to stand up and be still,probably in the bathroom?that would also along w/ Patsy saying she had flashbacks of JB screaming.Some kind of struggle occured.

 

[armywife210]

I read that books SO long ago. I have ADHD and cannot remember books after I read them. My husband laughs at me because I can watch "Golden
Girls" over and over and over again..... and not realize that I have seen the episodes a hundred times. :crazy:
Ok, so I am coming upon a whole scenerio of what I think happened. But before I share it with all of ya.... do we know which pants were on the bathroom floor with the soiled underwear? And do we know for fact which pants she was wearing that night? The only difference it really makes is if she changed when she got home that night.
That poor little girl....
And as a side note, I don't think she was ever sexually abused.... the douching applicator is what left the various stages of trauma and the scarring. The paint brush was used to try to cover it up after the fact.
The physical abuse from Patsy and the enabling from John was bad enough.

 

[Ames]

I don't want to get too graphic, but if she was unhappy and uncomfortable with this procedure she would be yelling. If Patsy got angry and told her to quiet down before she woke her brother... but Jonbenet wouldn't... maybe she whacked her a couple of times. If that applicator was inside of her when she went down (or if she had been really struggling) it might have caused bleeding.... this being something that Patsy would cover for later with the paintbrush... after wiping her clean with a washcloth.
Upon the whack with the flashlight, she hit her head on something on the way down to cause the other fracture.

This is exactly what I believe. I was thinking about it last night, and you beat me to it. I believe that the paintbrush insertion was done to hide the fact that she had been douched, and thats where the injury intially came from...the douching.

 

[Ames]

yep,I'd thought about that,could be,Thomas states he thinks something similar occured,(it's in his book),and he believes she was being corporally cleaned.(although it was the result of bedwetting).but with her shirt collar being twisted,and the knuckle abrasions on her,it would seem she was being forced to stand up and be still,probably in the bathroom?that would also along w/ Patsy saying she had flashbacks of JB screaming.Some kind of struggle occured.

I have to agree with ST....I think that this is what happened. And I really do believe that she was being douched, as punishment for wetting or soiling the bed. I believe too...that she probably wet or soiled her pants during the day also...and that she was being punished for doing that too. Patsy probably even told her...."as long as you wet yourself...I am going to keep doing this".

 

[Ames]

I read that books SO long ago. I have ADHD and cannot remember books after I read them. My husband laughs at me because I can watch "Golden
Girls" over and over and over again..... and not realize that I have seen the episodes a hundred times. :crazy:
Ok, so I am coming upon a whole scenerio of what I think happened. But before I share it with all of ya.... do we know which pants were on the bathroom floor with the soiled underwear? And do we know for fact which pants she was wearing that night? The only difference it really makes is if she changed when she got home that night.
That poor little girl....
And as a side note, I don't think she was ever sexually abused.... the douching applicator is what left the various stages of trauma and the scarring. The paint brush was used to try to cover it up after the fact.
The physical abuse from Patsy and the enabling from John was bad enough.

If I am not mistaken....I believe that Patsy said in her interview...that she had worn them that day, the 25th....to play in. She had changed out of those...and got ready for the White's party, and those were left on her bedroom floor...(I don't know anything about pants being left on the bathroom floor). Patsy says that she can't remember if JB had a bath or not....well, surely...she wouldn't have let her go to a party, after she had soiled herself, without one.

 

[JMO8778]

The only thing about that is there were no douches recovered on the lists...so that opens to the door to thinking someone left the house that night???(along w the RN practice pages,and maybe more?)It would seem hard for Pammy to have taken them.

 

[Ames]

The only thing about that is there were no douches recovered on the lists...so that opens to the door to thinking someone left the house that night???(along w the RN practice pages,and maybe more?)It would seem hard for Pammy to have taken them.

Maybe those things were inside of John's golf bag, maybe that's why he wanted the bag so bad, even though Patsy says that she cannot even remember the last time he played. As far as the practice note goes, I still think that its possible for them to have tore it into tiny pieces, and flushed it either down the toilet, or down the garbage disposal. Does anyone know if their garbage can outside was searched? I wonder when the garbage man last came? They don't run on Christmas...but...the day before, they do...and the day after they do (at least ours does). So, there may not have been a whole lot of used douches...laying around in the garbage cans. She would have just had to get rid of the one that she used on JB Christmas night. Also...maybe none were taken as evidence, if any were found...because Patsy told the police that they belonged to her. They probably never thought...that a mother would have used those on their six year old daughter.

 

[JMO8778]

This is exactly what I believe. I was thinking about it last night, and you beat me to it. I believe that the paintbrush insertion was done to hide the fact that she had been douched, and thats where the injury intially came from...the douching.

and maybe why her original underwear disappeared??
the only thing about that is the staging reflects a sexual one,what with the ligatures being done the way they were,and I think JR did that..I don't think Patsy had that kind of knowledge.If that's the case,she went and got him or he heard something and came in,too late of course.
But then JR seemed to want to do away with that,what with saying her hands were tied tightly when in fact they weren't,and also the fact she was cleaned, redressed and covered...only reason I can think of is they planned to get her out of the house(look back to the RN),in a panic,at first,but changed their minds,at least JR did..and so she was cleaned(thus his fibers and the large underwear),redressed and covered..

 

[Ames]

and maybe why her original underwear disappeared??
the only thing about that is the staging reflects a sexual one,what with the ligatures being done the way they were,and I think JR did that..I don't think Patsy had that kind of knowledge.If that's the case,she went and got him or he heard something and came in,too late of course.
But then JR seemed to want to do away with that,what with saying her hands were tied tightly when in fact they weren't,and also the fact she was cleaned, redressed and covered...only reason I can think of is they planned to get her out of the house(look back to the RN),in a panic,at first,but changed their minds,at least JR did..and so she was cleaned(thus his fibers and the large underwear),redressed and covered..

Yep, I believe that too....I think though...after she was douched, and the paintbrush was inserted to make it look like the intruder did it. They probably had second thoughts about that, for some reason...and wiped her down. I think that they were going to downplay the sexual assault on her. And that's why they wiped her down. Why else would they have done that....or redressed her, with clean panties...if they hadn't of changed their minds about it. I think that they, used the paintbrush for two purposes...at first...to make it look like a sexual assault had taken place...and to hide the fact that she was being douched. (Because if the police or investigators found that out...then they would know that JB had bedwetting problems...and THAT could be the reason that she was killed)....and then I believe that at first, they were going to dump her body somewhere...but, for some reason changed their minds. Maybe they just couldn't go through with it.