UK UK - Sarah Wellgreen, 46, Kent, 9 Oct 2018 #2 *B. Lacomba guilty*

[Spy Versus Spy]

Evening.

Been away all day, just catching up.

Thanks for the updates @Alyce , appreciated.


I agree not all suspicions necessarily point to guilt, however the main ones as pointed out in an earlier post are pretty compelling imo.

Phone disposal
Car journey on cctv despite lie of sleep
Delay in notifying LE

He has offered an explanation to every element / accusation of suspicion

We only have KentLive summary as a record of court to go on. More on both sides will be unknown to us. With that in mind...

Im in the 'BL responsible for SW disappearence/death but 50/50 on if proven beyong reasonable doubt' camp


Other than the brief picture we got of Eleini, no-one involved comes out with a character, an intelligence, or a morality that I would aspire to, to be really honest.

There is however, only one possible act of gross inhumanity that is likely. Only one person responsible for that inhumane act. Everything else pales into nothingness imo.

(Even ML, who IMO may have had more of a role than we've heard, has probably acted, if at all, out of a sense of misguided loyalty)

One Perp, many many victims.

 

[mrazda71]

I agree it’s not the likeliest os scenarios her disappearing. She had the means to do it though.

It’s said by her oldest son that she had 6 mobile phones. 2 were in the house, Ben had the iPhone 4 allegedly which leaves 3 more phones unaccounted for. She could have taken one of these and had a PAYG sim card, she has two listed addresses, Portsmouth and NAG, she might have had a pseudo bank account with some cash in, a few clothes stashed, nobody would know a few items of clothing missing. But where’s those 3 phones and why haven’t the cops tracked their locations?

She leaves down the side of the house onto church road at 2am, quietly and then down the lane out of the way to meet her lift/man/driver etc. It’s not difficult to leave. Then she needs to get out of the UK, that bit even without a passport is remarkably easy to do. In France now and Europe is in her arms and she can travel freely wherever she wants. She can change her appearance too.

For all anyone knows, she may have had extra dating apps unknown to anyone and she could have had a 4th or 5th guy on the go too.

Staging it, or maybe just getting the hell out of her life regardless. Possibly not wanting to frame him for murder because if she is alive and he gets convicted there’s no way she can come back without her possibly going to jail and him being released.

It’s very complicated for sure, anything is possible, nothing is certain by any means in the whole case, I bet the jury feel the same too and off he walks.

Have you followed the Joy Morgan case? vwas even less evidence in that case that we the public were party too and the jury took just 11 hours of deliberation to convict unanimously.

If Lacomba walks, I shall be very, VERY surprised.

Trials aren't about what could have happened in your wildest imagination, they're about what has realistically happened.

You seem to think that Ben's innocent despite all the things against him that just don't add up ... are you just playing devils advocate or do you think he's innocent?

 

[Mrs Marple]

Wouldn't you have thought that if BL had pre - planned to bring about Sarah's disappearance that he would have buried her handbag, it's contents, and keys with her?

This thought just struck me as well. If he was trying to sell the narrative of Sarah just leaving, why not take her keys and purse? Unless that was the plan and he forgot. He could have got rid of the phones sooner without the drama it has caused

I'm glad l'm not on this jury

 

[Skigh]

This thought just struck me as well. If he was trying to sell the narrative of Sarah just leaving, why not take her keys and purse? Unless that was the plan and he forgot. He could have got rid of the phones sooner without the drama it has caused

I'm glad l'm not on this jury

I think perhaps he had plans to get rid of other things but was prevented from doing so as his child was up when he returned home.

 

[Delisa]

It’s a completely different thing to move a dead body down the stairs, out of the house with 3 kids in there and without making a single noise or them being alerted. We can all move furniture if need be but try doing that in silence, impossible alone.

An ambulance turned up at my house and had to get another one aswell to come to remove my unconscious husband out of the bedroom down the stairs and down 28 steps into the ambulance outside. So that was me four paramedics and two flashing ambulances outside. It was a right ruckus but the kids slept through it and this neighbours said they never noticed a thing.

Just to add kids didn't even wake up when their grandparents arrived shouting, this was all in the small hours

 

[GimmeAclueBlue]

I have a massively complicated background and all i can think, from how this thread started.....too how it has ended....is thank feck i left my x husband! I had a child at 17 and had grown up in the "social system" b4 hand through no fault of my own and ended up with a man who finished off what little self esteem i had left with abuse and mind games,even turning my child against me with disgusting accusations and sick name calling. I stayed with him in the same house through some weird misplaced loyalty to my kids were i though if i left i had let them down.

Glad i did leave else i could have been SW and u would never know the true "ins and outs" and all these awful things would be presumed. No way would she not tell her story if she was alive

MOO

 

[GimmeAclueBlue]

An ambulance turned up at my house and had to get another one aswell to come to remove my unconscious husband out of the bedroom down the stairs and down 28 steps into the ambulance outside. So that was me four paramedics and two flashing ambulances outside. It was a right ruckus but the kids slept through it and this neighbours said they never noticed a thing.

Just to add kids didn't even wake up when their grandparents arrived shouting, this was all in the small hours

Yes....this exactly! I have had next door report my x for being abusive, police turned up and said they needed to check on me and the kids. I said i was ok and they wanted to see the kids were ok (3am ish i had just come bk from a shift as a master of ceremonies for a wedding) i said kids were asleep but they didnt give up until they had gone in there rooms and checked with torches in faces and my kids didnt move a muscle, sirens, him shouting b4 hand, lights, dog barking the lot! I think the expression (how ever untasteful) comes in "dead to the world"

 

[deugirtni]

Yes I know, I know from experience.

She was married twice, conceived no children during either marriage then 5 with two other men. I’m not out to run her down but these are facts of her life. Why did she leave the 12 year old behind and took the twins, she was a devoted mother we have been told.

Sorry, where is it coming from that S left the 12 y/o behind and took only the twins when she left BL? I've missed that part.

 

[deugirtni]

Wouldn't you have thought that if BL had pre - planned to bring about Sarah's disappearance that he would have buried her handbag, it's contents, and keys with her?

That is a very good point. IF it was planned, and the prosecution is certainly presenting it that way, then surely his plan would've been to set the stage to appear that S left of her own accord to go and be with yet another man (in his eyes). She would've been dressed, taken her purse, her keys to get back into the house when she returned, her bank/credit cards/money, the phone she needed for that 'date', etc. (Also presumably her vehicle, since it seemed she kept her men away from her home?)
All of those things BL is said to have done - were they all actions he took after the fact, in order to hide what he did? If so, then wouldn't the charge be different?
The prosecution can't have it both ways, imho.

 

[deugirtni]

He would bury her with the duvet as Tortoise said. He would be mad to bring it back and have it around to possibly be forensically tested one day.

But if you think about it from his perspective... he ditched his phones (thinking it would prevent the cops from getting valuable intel - some of which could surely have been gotten by other means directly from the cellphone provider); he 'lost' his shoes for 6 days (but did he realize that any blood, DNA, or foreign earth could still remain between stitches in the leather, or in any of the little nooks and crannies on the shoe); he got his car washed, but not soon enough to avoid being caught on camera with a muddy vehicle (on both sides); he avoided the home camera, but is supposedly pictured on numerous road cameras... etc. If he lugged her about wrapped in the duvet, to make it easier to move her (especially down the stairs?), and there was no 'evidence', like blood, on it.. then if it were to also be missing, that would be a big red flag.. but to still be there stuffed in a drawer with the excuse that his mummy always brings her own bedding when sleeping in his wife's bed (??????), then why not leave it? He likely had no clue police could check any 'dirt' to possibly discover environmental evidence of location. He left the six foot shovel in his shed - dirty, so police were able to test the dirt on it.

 

[deugirtni]

An ambulance turned up at my house and had to get another one aswell to come to remove my unconscious husband out of the bedroom down the stairs and down 28 steps into the ambulance outside. So that was me four paramedics and two flashing ambulances outside. It was a right ruckus but the kids slept through it and this neighbours said they never noticed a thing.

Just to add kids didn't even wake up when their grandparents arrived shouting, this was all in the small hours

Yes....this exactly! I have had next door report my x for being abusive, police turned up and said they needed to check on me and the kids. I said i was ok and they wanted to see the kids were ok (3am ish i had just come bk from a shift as a master of ceremonies for a wedding) i said kids were asleep but they didnt give up until they had gone in there rooms and checked with torches in faces and my kids didnt move a muscle, sirens, him shouting b4 hand, lights, dog barking the lot! I think the expression (how ever untasteful) comes in "dead to the world"

This type of thing is very possible, but it sure as heck can't be relied upon. Some people wake to ANYTHING. Some people are 'dead to the world'. And variations of each person depending on particular night in question. Some people are up in the night (neighbours - you never know their habits?) And notice how many it took to get the husband's unconscious weight out of bed and down the stairs and into the vehicle? Could they have put him instead into a nerfgun carrier to make it easier? How hard would that have been to fold the limp body to fit into the box and then carry it?

 

[deugirtni]

I think perhaps he had plans to get rid of other things but was prevented from doing so as his child was up when he returned home.

But the child then went back to bed. And he had another whole day and night to get rid of stuff before he called police.

 

[deugirtni]

Have you followed the Joy Morgan case? vwas even less evidence in that case that we the public were party too and the jury took just 11 hours of deliberation to convict unanimously.

If Lacomba walks, I shall be very, VERY surprised.

Trials aren't about what could have happened in your wildest imagination, they're about what has realistically happened.

You seem to think that Ben's innocent despite all the things against him that just don't add up ... are you just playing devils advocate or do you think he's innocent?

Personally, after all I have heard, which seems to be very little in the whole scope of things, I wouldn't want to feel responsible for putting him away forever. From what I've heard, I don't think police did a good enough job at collecting enough required evidence to do that.

I would like to hear about other possibilities police checked out, such as NJ's activities that night as well. Remember in the early days, we discussed how it would've been possible that NJ was perhaps suspicious of SW, and showed up at her door later that night after earlier having been told she was 'going to bed', texted her to come outside to talk.. she came out as she was, without her bag, money, etc. He was on it right away, texting first thing in the morning - did police check it out that this was normal behaviour for him? Did they take his cellphone to check out his location data? NJ admitted the last conversation he had with SW was one in which they were arguing I believe, about her having told BL about her new job? I've been sticking up all along for NJ, but seriously, it's up to the cops to gather actual evidence, and not just thoughts from you and I and the public about what *could* have happened. Perhaps they would have found a spade in NJ's shed too? Perhaps there was some kind of blood evidence in *his* vehicle - was it even checked?? Just saying that if it were me on the jury, I'd want to know that other things and people were checked out as well, and I'd want more clarity about what police did to check the facts on BL as well.

Btw, I am very surprised to hear that your courts will allow 'majority rules' when talking about a murder trial. That astounds me. If that is the case, I don't think BL will have a chance of walking, since all they need are 7 of those jurors to think what they've been told was good enough to convict. jmo.

 

[Ironside]

Btw, I am very surprised to hear that your courts will allow 'majority rules' when talking about a murder trial. That astounds me. If that is the case, I don't think BL will have a chance of walking, since all they need are 7 of those jurors to think what they've been told was good enough to convict. jmo.

A majority verdict is 10 or 11 out of 12 jurors not 7.

Also we don't have the death penalty so there is less mental pressure on jurors - for example I think Casey Anthony got away with murder as the jurors didn't want to be responsible for a death penalty.

 

[Noseyjosie]

But the child then went back to bed. And he had another whole day and night to get rid of stuff before he called police.

Yes I get what you mean...BUT..the child had already seen Mum's purse and phones in her room - and found the bed wet "at the top, near the wardrobe". Disposing of all these items after Sarah's disappearance had already been noticed would have been absolute suicide to his defence and alibi. I think he had a plan, a well thought out plan, which then went very wrong once he got home and found one of his children up and about - and no doubt already asking questions

 

[deugirtni]

A majority verdict is 10 or 11 out of 12 jurors not 7.

Also we don't have the death penalty so there is less mental pressure on jurors - for example I think Casey Anthony got away with murder as the jurors didn't want to be responsible for a death penalty.

Ok, is there anything I could read to educate myself on this majority thing?? That really scared me when I read that from one of our posters here!

 

[deugirtni]

Yes I get what you mean...BUT..the child had already seen Mum's purse and phones in her room - and found the bed wet "at the top, near the wardrobe". Disposing of all these items after Sarah's disappearance had already been noticed would have been absolute suicide to his defence and alibi. I think he had a plan, a well thought out plan, which then went very wrong once he got home and found one of his children up and about - and no doubt already asking questions

True, but BL seems to be saying that it wasn't that night at ALL, that any of this was seen in the first place. He also got rid of phones which police already knew he had in his possession. It doesn't seem like it would've been a leap for BL to claim that anything the child saw that night, was not valid anyway, since it was the wrong night. (According to him, apparently.)

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Ok, is there anything I could read to educate myself on this majority thing?? That really scared me when I read that from one of our posters here!

This is England and Wales deu....Scotland has a different sysyem and N Ireland too iirc
Crown Court trial Part 3 | Defence-Barrister.co.uk — Defence-Barrister.co.uk

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

The Home page òn the above site offers more info across a wider range of legal process too

Defence-Barrister.co.uk

 

[hitthenick]

Have you followed the Joy Morgan case? vwas even less evidence in that case that we the public were party too and the jury took just 11 hours of deliberation to convict unanimously.

If Lacomba walks, I shall be very, VERY surprised.

Trials aren't about what could have happened in your wildest imagination, they're about what has realistically happened.

You seem to think that Ben's innocent despite all the things against him that just don't add up ... are you just playing devils advocate or do you think he's innocent?

I’ve not followed Joy Morgan although I have read up on the case.

The problem we all have hear is that we rely on press to report court details, I’d guess we only get 10% of what has been stated in the court so there’s a lot of information we don’t know. Unless we just go to the trial, a lot of the case is missing, we only get brief summaries.

You use the word, realistically, yet that word in itself is a creation of doubt and not factual.. We need truth not realism. I agree we shouldn’t use imagination but this whole thread has been created more or less on guess work and imagination with some of the facts and reports from court thrown in.

None of us can be sure he has murdered her based on the little information we have and let’s not forget that we only know snippets from court based on what the reporter wants to publish who at the end of the day is only a journalist. The jury have to be sure she is dead, then that he has murdered her. That’s it, nothing more. The thing I can see is that I really don’t think anyone can be certain she is dead and then that he has murdered her based on all the information ( which isn’t exactly compelling ) that we all know here.

You ask if I think he is innocent.

Well, personally I don’t think she is alive. I think her body is local. I think Ben is responsible for it.

On the other hand, I cannot also rule out suicide but I’m certain she’d have been found unless she jumped off a bridge or ferry somewhere or her just walking away either regardless of her being a mother, mother’s have done that so it’s not new in this world.

The likeliest is she is dead and he has murdered her.

The prosecution just haven’t convinced me that happened I’m afraid and it’s for that reason I think he will be found not guilty.