Found Deceased IA - Mollie Tibbetts, 20, Poweshiek County, 19 Jul 2018 *Arrest* #47

[Jealoushe]

There’s no doubt that CR killed Mollie. None. We know that, the State knows that, his lawyers know that. The problem however - and it’s a big one - is that proving First Degree Murder in this case is going to be tricky even with all the facts as we know them. The State already has an uphill battle.

I think the videos of him circling the block towards her will help with that. There is a lot of evidence I am sure. Confession is nice but not necessary imo.

 

[katydid23]

There’s no doubt that CR killed Mollie. None. We know that, the State knows that, his lawyers know that. The problem however - and it’s a big one - is that proving First Degree Murder in this case is going to be tricky even with all the facts as we know them. The State already has an uphill battle.

I don't think it will be that big of a problem to prove 1st degree murder.

He took her because he wanted to assault a woman, for the usual motives that men kidnap women. Her blood was in the trunk of his car.

He saw a woman he fancied, that was jogging by. So he grabbed her and threw her in the trunk.
He slashed her and left her in a cornfield. That is first degree murder, imo.

 

[Elley Mae]

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

What Are Your Miranda Rights?

.....

Seems that all a person has to do to become a police officer, memorizing Miranda Rights wouldn’t be that difficult.

 

[Seattle1]

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”
What Are Your Miranda Rights?
.....
Seems that all a person has to do to become a police officer, memorizing Miranda Rights wouldn’t be that difficult.

The Des Moines Register reports that prosecutors, in a filing on May 31, refuted most of these allegations, saying the interview was conducted properly and that all evidence gathered is admissible. According to the newspaper, the prosecutors argued that the search of Bahena Rivera's car was valid because "he granted both verbal and written consent through a federal agent."

Bahena Rivera, they argued, also "could not be considered to have been in custody when initially taken to the sheriff's office because he'd agreed to talk, was given food and drink, wasn't restrained, had access to his phone and was told he was free to leave if he wanted."

According to the Register, investigators say when they asked him if they would find anything in his car when they searched it, Bahena Rivera said that "if he had anything to hide, he would have left out the door." Investigators did find blood, later identified as belonging to Tibbetts, in the trunk of his car.

It wasn't that CR did not receive his miranda rights by police, but that according to his defense, his read was deficient. Judge is yet to rule after hearing postponed.

Defense also alleges CR was entitled to contact the Mexican Consulate before speaking to police-- but nobody informed him.

 

[Seattle1]

A judge will rule on that issue in October, a month before the trial is scheduled to begin. But even if that confession is thrown out, the case isn’t over due to the legal doctrine called inevitable discovery.

“What the state is arguing is that even if we violated his rights and the confession goes out, we can still use the evidence obtained because we would have inevitably discovered it anyway," Rigg said.

So how important is CR's confession that may have been given under deficient miranda right warning?

I don't think it's important enough to send CR free.

IMO, the actual evidence is worth more than his word, and I believe it's all admissible.

For example, the car was searched by the Feds after CR gave verbal and written permission. I believe this search occurred prior to CR coming to police department. I believe evidence obtained from the car including Mollie's blood and hair are admissible.

I also don't think there's any question that CR was fully under miranda (no deficiency read here) when he traveled with LE and led them directly to the corn field where Mollie's remains were found.

If the jury has to infer how Mollie, her hair and blood, got inside CR's car and to the cornfield, where he led police, so be it.

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

So basically they filed the 'first' motion to suppress, and the 'second' one you heard about was supplemental. So basically they found more evidence to support their original motion after it was filed, so they filed the supplemental one (but it's still the same overall motion to suppress). I read all of the documents, and even though it's not what people want to hear, it's a pretty solid defense, legally speaking (and they have a lot of case law to back it all up).

The second, supplemental motion to suppress essentially included the contact information for the Mexican Consulate. Defense provided that his illegal alien client was entitled to contact the Mexican Consulate before speaking to police but nobody told him about this.

As to how solid the defense motion to suppress CR's confession, this is what his own lawyer said on his fb before he was representing CR:

"But wait .... an illegal alien snatched her up and committed this heinous act? He admitted to it? He took the cops to the body?"

Frese said he was explaining the importance of fair legal proceedings. He subsequently changed his privacy settings so that only friends could see his posts.

(Frese was also vocal when the pig farmer was being suspected in Mollie's disappearance).

 

[MassGuy]

So how important is CR's confession that may have been given under deficient miranda right warning?

I don't think it's important enough to send CR free.

IMO, the actual evidence is worth more than his word, and I believe it's all admissible.

For example, the car was searched by the Feds after CR gave verbal and written permission. I believe this search occurred prior to CR coming to police department. I believe evidence obtained from the car including Mollie's blood and hair are admissible.

I also don't think there's any question that CR was fully under miranda (no deficiency read here) when he traveled with LE and led them directly to the corn field where Mollie's remains were found.

If the jury has to infer how Mollie, her hair and blood, got inside CR's car and to the cornfield, where he led police, so be it.

MOO

Yeah, and the evidence appears to be overwhelming, confession or not.

Evidence in Mollie Tibbetts murder is insurmountable, law enforcement source says

Whatever the outcome, the law enforcement source told Fox News there's an abundance of other damning evidence incriminating Rivera in Tibbetts' death. The statement echoed claims from the state in its most recent court filing. The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation. The source did not elaborate on the evidence investigators had, but it has been reported that Tibbetts' blood was found in the trunk of Rivera's car.

Evidence in Mollie Tibbetts murder is insurmountable, law enforcement source says

 

[Elley Mae]

State attorneys on Friday filed court documents in which they conceded that the initial Miranda warning given to Bahena Rivera around 11:30 p.m. on Aug. 20, 2018, was incomplete because the officer "inadvertently" failed to inform Bahena Rivera that anything he said could be used against him in court at a later time.

His Miranda rights were accurately read to him a second time at 5:50 a.m., while he was in a vehicle near the cornfield where Tibbetts’ body was found, according to the state.

The state agreed with the defense that any statements Bahena Rivera made between 11:30 p.m. and 5:50 a.m. should be suppressed, but argued that the prosecution should have the right to use any of the statements made at that time to rebut testimony.

State agrees some of the suspect's statements should be excluded as evidence in Mollie Tibbetts' slaying

.....

He was in the car when the correct Miranda Rights were read to him, was it before he got out and showed where Mollie was or was it after.?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Yeah, and the evidence appears to be overwhelming, confession or not.

Evidence in Mollie Tibbetts murder is insurmountable, law enforcement source says

Whatever the outcome, the law enforcement source told Fox News there's an abundance of other damning evidence incriminating Rivera in Tibbetts' death. The statement echoed claims from the state in its most recent court filing. The source spoke on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation. The source did not elaborate on the evidence investigators had, but it has been reported that Tibbetts' blood was found in the trunk of Rivera's car.

Evidence in Mollie Tibbetts murder is insurmountable, law enforcement source says

While the evidence is indeed overwhelming, my concern all along all along has been that it perfectly fits the definition of Second Degree Murder. Any argument I come up with for First Degree requires speculation.

Personally, at this point, I think the defense is trying to leverage a plea deal and I’m not going to be surprised if the state offers one.

 

[Seattle1]

State agrees some of the suspect's statements should be excluded as evidence in Mollie Tibbetts' slaying

Oct 18, 2019

“Help yourself, do it for yourself, think about you,” one of the officers in the interview told Bahena Rivera, according to an official transcript cited in court records. “Think about your daughter that will need you. Right now, don’t you see that little face of that little girl?”

[IMO, the above paragraph sounds like Spanish to English translation for transcript. Not blaming Spanish speaking Officer but wonder just how much did his colleagues rely on him -- esp if he was the Officer that gave the partial reading of Miranda to CR]. bbm

The state on Friday said in the court filing that at no point were Bahena Rivera's confessions involuntary, coerced or part of a false confession.

"The defendant led police directly to Mollie’s body at the conclusion of the interview, he was seen in proximity to Mollie while she was running on the last night of her life, and Mollie’s blood was found in the trunk of the Defendant’s car," the prosecution wrote. "All of these facts are extrinsic to the interview and independently establish the defendant was the killer, not a false confessor."

The officers' interview tactics weren't nefarious, prosecutors wrote. Had they been, they wouldn't have provided any attempt at reading Bahena Rivera his Miranda rights.

The state also wrote that Bahena Rivera directly implicated himself in Tibbetts' death both before and after his Miranda rights were read and that the discovery of Tibbetts' body should be included in evidence because it would have eventually been found.

"Mollie’s body was located in an open farm field," prosecutors wrote. "Inevitably, whether at harvest or before, the field would have been emptied of crops and Mollie’s body would have been visible to the naked eye of farmers and passersby."

[...]

Chad Frese, one of Bahena Rivera's attorneys, said the defense is still evaluating the state's response. Although they agree with the prosecution's statement that at least part of the statement should be suppressed, they still say their motion to suppress evidence should be granted in totality.

 

[Seattle1]

While the evidence is indeed overwhelming, my concern all along all along has been that it perfectly fits the definition of Second Degree Murder. Any argument I come up with for First Degree requires speculation.

Personally, at this point, I think the defense is trying to leverage a plea deal and I’m not going to be surprised if the state offers one.

If not for Mollie's parents, I'd disagree.

Personally, I think her family would very much support a plea agreement-- that they can continue moving forward the best that they can, celebrating the way Mollie lived, versus her horrific death. MOO

 

[katydid23]

While the evidence is indeed overwhelming, my concern all along all along has been that it perfectly fits the definition of Second Degree Murder. Any argument I come up with for First Degree requires speculation.

Personally, at this point, I think the defense is trying to leverage a plea deal and I’m not going to be surprised if the state offers one.

What is first degree murder in Iowa?
iowa statutes 1st degree murder vs 2nd degree

Iowa Code Annotated § 707.2, Murder in the first degree. A person commits first-degree murder if he or she kills another person under any of the following circumstances:

Willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation. While participating in a forcible felony.


I think his actions fit perfectly into Iowa's 1st degree murder definition.

Willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation.

We have video of his car following her as she jogged, going around the block a few times and returning to stalk her. That is willful behaviour. She ignores him.

So, in response, he pulls over and runs after her, then runs alongside her, trying to lure her. That is deliberate. He is hunting.

She tells him to leave or she will call 911.

He could have done so. Walked away, no problem. But he reacts with a plan, deliberate and premeditated at that point. His plan is to kidnap her. He drags her to the trunk of his car and kidnaps her, which is a forcible felony.

She died at his hands while he was participating in a forcible felony. His actions of following her in his vehicle, running after her, dragging her into his trunk, are willful and deliberate.

Premeditation can be minutes or seconds. At some point he grabbed a weapon and sliced her up.

I think he knew exactly what was going to happen to her once he had her in the trunk and went looking for a weapon.

I think they have first degree murder. He was a predator. He stalked her and grabbed her and brutally killed her. That is not 2nd degree, in my opinion.

here is the difference between 1st and 2nd:

n. a non-premeditated killing, resulting from an assault in which death of the victim was a distinct possibility. Second degree murder is different from first degree murder, which is a premeditated, intentional killing or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape or armed robbery.


see this part:
or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape or armed robbery.


That^^ describes this murder, in my opinion.

 

[katydid23]

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you? With these rights in mind, do you wish to speak to me?”

What Are Your Miranda Rights?

.....

Seems that all a person has to do to become a police officer, memorizing Miranda Rights wouldn’t be that difficult.

Many departments have new policies regarding Miranda warning because it is sometimes harder than one might think, to be totally consistent. Once you have something memorised and you do it over and over and over, it is easy to accidentally leave a word or sentence out, because you are on automatic pilot.

Especially if you are arresting someone in shaky situations or circumstances and you are concerned with other issues at same time.

So some departments now require officers to READ the entire warning from a card, every time. Just to avoid issues like this.

 

[Seattle1]

Many departments have new policies regarding Miranda warning because it is sometimes harder than one might think, to be totally consistent. Once you have something memorised and you do it over and over and over, it is easy to accidentally leave a word or sentence out, because you are on automatic pilot.

Especially if you are arresting someone in shaky situations or circumstances and you are concerned with other issues at same time.

So some departments now require officers to READ the entire warning from a card, every time. Just to avoid issues like this.

The last police interview I watched was in Ohio, and the Miranda was video taped as detective read from a script, and person questioned had to sign hard copy of the same.

 

[Seattle1]

What is first degree murder in Iowa?
iowa statutes 1st degree murder vs 2nd degree

Iowa Code Annotated § 707.2, Murder in the first degree. A person commits first-degree murder if he or she kills another person under any of the following circumstances:

Willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation. While participating in a forcible felony.


I think his actions fit perfectly into Iowa's 1st degree murder definition.

Willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation.

We have video of his car following her as she jogged, going around the block a few times and returning to stalk her. That is willful behaviour. She ignores him.

So, in response, he pulls over and runs after her, then runs alongside her, trying to lure her. That is deliberate. He is hunting.

She tells him to leave or she will call 911.

He could have done so. Walked away, no problem. But he reacts with a plan, deliberate and premeditated at that point. His plan is to kidnap her. He drags her to the trunk of his car and kidnaps her, which is a forcible felony.

She died at his hands while he was participating in a forcible felony. His actions of following her in his vehicle, running after her, dragging her into his trunk, are willful and deliberate.

Premeditation can be minutes or seconds. At some point he grabbed a weapon and sliced her up.

I think he knew exactly what was going to happen to her once he had her in the trunk and went looking for a weapon.

I think they have first degree murder. He was a predator. He stalked her and grabbed her and brutally killed her. That is not 2nd degree, in my opinion.

here is the difference between 1st and 2nd:

n. a non-premeditated killing, resulting from an assault in which death of the victim was a distinct possibility. Second degree murder is different from first degree murder, which is a premeditated, intentional killing or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape or armed robbery.


see this part:
or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape or armed robbery.


That^^ describes this murder, in my opinion.

I always saw this as defendant was lying in wait for Mollie -- he stalked and waited for her.

I also expect for defense to argue his alleged black out, not remembering she was in his trunk, to argue lesser degree.

I believe the evidence strong with or without his confession.

 

[katydid23]

I always saw this as defendant was lying in wait for Mollie -- he stalked and waited for her.

I also expect for defense to argue his alleged black out, not remembering she was in his trunk, to argue lesser degree.

I believe the evidence strong with or without his confession.

Yah, I am sure they are going to try to use his 'black out' as some kind of evidence for lesser degree charges. Like he didn't really know what he was doing. He literally said he 'came to' and then had a vague feeling he might have dome something bad...

I don't think it's going to work however. Even if he 'didnt remember' it, he did commit 1st degree murder by wilfully and deliberately kidnapping a woman for the commission of a felony sex crime and she died at his hands in the commission of that heinous crime. No body cares if he admits to remembering it or not...

 

[Niner]

From my notes he IS charged with 1st degree murder.

 

[Bravo]

I'm not sure I can follow another Trial where a "fog" rolled in. Yet I know I will. (Arias Trial)

 

[Bravo]

Fog or no fog IMO they can nail him on Murder 1

 

[mickey2942]

It wasn't that CR did not receive his miranda rights by police, but that according to his defense, his read was deficient. Judge is yet to rule after hearing postponed.

Defense also alleges CR was entitled to contact the Mexican Consulate before speaking to police-- but nobody informed him.

How are police officers supposed to know that a suspect has the right to contact the Mexican Consulate? Did the suspect request this?

At this point, at the very least, make sure that there is an ICE detainer on Baheana, to ensure that if he is released on a technicality, that he is detained until a deportation hearing.