Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

[Aydrianna523]

@PaulaDC I feel your frustration. He'll be identified and we'll all have closure from the horror of this craven act.

@Aydrianna523, I'm down with your thoughts on his brashness. He was on a "mission" and understood himself visible, yet took the chance. This has always seemed like a carefully premeditated seek-and-destroy mission to me, one with a heavy fantasy element to it. I look forward to hearing about the reasons for his brazenness in documentaries for the duration of this offender's long prison sentence.

It makes sense when I picture this crime as a youthful first-try kind of situation. The adjective lucky has been used here by all of us. Doesn't this feel like a kid's luck? A sick, cowardly, deviant man-child who now hides in plain sight.

It does seem like he was on a mission to kill. By most accounts it all happened very quickly, especially since other walkers heard nothing but they weren't all that far away.

 

[busymcmoody]

Me, too. IMO, this would have been impossible to plan. At any point on the trail, on the bridge, below the bridge, during the attack, or on his way out, one or more witnesses could very easily have entered the scene (and possible did). Even when out of sight, I can't imagine there wasn't some noise to be overheard. If he lucked out and nobody saw or heard enough to identify him, it wasn't because he had some kind of control over the trail users that day.

My guess is he deliberated harm somewhere just prior to walking the trail, or somewhere on it, and from there it was simply watching and waiting, taking the opportunity when/if he had the chance. It was still risky, which I think points to impulsivity. Something p*ssed him off, or something tripped his trigger. JMO

Ahhh I don't know...I look at his coat and see that it's filled with all kind of stuff, that at least screams premeditated. IMO.

 

[FinePrint]

So many murders happen everyday. What is it about this case, the murders of Abby and Libby that attracts so much attention?

Many, many work on this case daily on this main thread and PMs trying to find some small detail that may help to bring this monster to justice.

For me its the taking of innocence, I see a lot of myself in the girls at that age. I would have done the same thing they did that unexpectedly nice day. I would have wanted to go hiking around in the woods, exploring, taking pictures and goofing off with my friend/friends.

Also, just seeing the actual killer waking on that bridge, just before the murders, having that documented by Libby herself just blows my mind...

What has drawn you to this case???

 

[CSIDreamer]

So many murders happen everyday. What is it about this case, the murders of Abby and Libby that attracts so much attention?

Many, many work on this case daily on this main thread and PMs trying to find some small detail that may help to bring this monster to justice.

For me its the taking of innocence, I see a lot of myself in the girls at that age. I would have done the same thing they did that unexpectedly nice day. I would have wanted to go hiking around in the woods, exploring, taking pictures and goofing off with my friend/friends.

Also, just seeing the actual killer waking on that bridge, just before the murders, having that documented by Libby herself just blows my mind...

What has drawn you to this case???

The same thing. I feel like I was practically raised in the woods. Now I worry about taking my daughter and granddaughter hiking. It's like we were stripped of a beautiful, safe place. And 2 young ladies that had a world of potential.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

So many murders happen everyday. What is it about this case, the murders of Abby and Libby that attracts so much attention?

Many, many work on this case daily on this main thread and PMs trying to find some small detail that may help to bring this monster to justice.

For me its the taking of innocence, I see a lot of myself in the girls at that age. I would have done the same thing they did that unexpectedly nice day. I would have wanted to go hiking around in the woods, exploring, taking pictures and goofing off with my friend/friends.

Also, just seeing the actual killer waking on that bridge, just before the murders, having that documented by Libby herself just blows my mind...

What has drawn you to this case???

For me three reasons...not in any order...

1 im an avid hiker...and have had my own creepy experiences/interactions while on the trails.
2 i became a father shortly before that, so the taking of such innocence pulled me in.
3 Libby capturing the photo of BG. There was evidence before your eyes to go off of. I never dreamed when I started following this case (i was on reddit long before coming here) wouldnt be solved yet.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Me, too. IMO, this would have been impossible to plan. At any point on the trail, on the bridge, below the bridge, during the attack, or on his way out, one or more witnesses could very easily have entered the scene (and possible did). Even when out of sight, I can't imagine there wasn't some noise to be overheard. If he lucked out and nobody saw or heard enough to identify him, it wasn't because he had some kind of control over the trail users that day.

My guess is he deliberated harm somewhere just prior to walking the trail, or somewhere on it, and from there it was simply watching and waiting, taking the opportunity when/if he had the chance. It was still risky, which I think points to impulsivity. Something p*ssed him off, or something tripped his trigger. JMO

I keep thinking military guy because this would be hard to pull off... but le never mentioned that.

 

[busymcmoody]

So many murders happen everyday. What is it about this case, the murders of Abby and Libby that attracts so much attention?

Many, many work on this case daily on this main thread and PMs trying to find some small detail that may help to bring this monster to justice.

For me its the taking of innocence, I see a lot of myself in the girls at that age. I would have done the same thing they did that unexpectedly nice day. I would have wanted to go hiking around in the woods, exploring, taking pictures and goofing off with my friend/friends.

Also, just seeing the actual killer waking on that bridge, just before the murders, having that documented by Libby herself just blows my mind...

What has drawn you to this case???

I think all of what you said. Plus, there is the fact that we don't know a whole lot of what really happened. Humans are problem solvers, and that Libby captured her murderer on camera and audio, it's just so gut wrenching that they still haven't found the perpetrator. Seeing how the lives of these two spirited young girls was cut short by a monster...if there is one case I want to see solved in my lifetime, it's this one.

 

[TL4S]

Ahhh I don't know...I look at his coat and see that it's filled with all kind of stuff, that at least screams premeditated. IMO.

I'll give you that. It does look like he has stuff in his pockets or inside his jacket (I've always seen the gun). If he has a weapon or something nefarious in there, than yes, I'd say some premeditation was involved. But that doesn't have to mean he planned it any earlier than the moment he drove by and saw the girls get dropped off. People carry weapons in their vehicles all the time.

I also can't allow myself to simply assume he has what others have called a "kill kit" (I dislike that term so much) just because I know what he ultimately did. For example (and I'm not saying this is what I necessarily believe), what if he was fishing near the bridge when he saw the girls. He could have had a couple of mini tackle boxes in his pockets. I've done that myself. Or he could have extra weight on his belly plus clothing layers. Or a camera. Or a huffing can or other drug paraphernalia. Or booze. Or a wallet and phone. Or a baby goat.

I guess my point is that the video isn't clear enough to keep the devil's advocate's voice out of my head. While I see a gun and whatever else, I can't say for sure that's what's going on. The unpredictably small window of opportunity for the crime, the high risk of being seen or heard, and the possibility of BG crossing the creek with the girls all feels more impulsive than planned to me, but that's just how I see it.

 

[tresir2012]

Red hair gene and blue eyes gene are unrelated, so the incidence of blue eyes would be the same among the redheads as in general. In general, I would not trust the witnesses about the eyes. As to hair, reddish-brown and red is different.

Have you got a link? I posted the link for the 0.17% and it mentioned a MC1R factor - I will have to go back and check it.

ETA here's the link that I posted. Did you see it. It is very rare so if BG has left a hair they could perhaps determine that there was no gene for blue eyes in his DNA. They have to know he has reddish brown hair somehow and is isn't from the video IMO. Could be witnesses but then the not blue eyes they mentioned has always been weird to me. They do not seem to be stating that any more also.

Are redheads with blue eyes really going extinct? | Pursuit by The University of Melbourne

 

[TL4S]

I keep thinking military guy because this would be hard to pull off... but le never mentioned that.

I could see that. I could see a PTSD type situation, honestly. In his element outdoors, efficient killer, risk taker. Or maybe a situation like:

US Marine Alexander Curry-Fishtorn, 22, charged with multiple felonies in connection to Crown Point teen kidnapping

 

[busymcmoody]

I'll give you that. It does look like he has stuff in his pockets or inside his jacket (I've always seen the gun). If he has a weapon or something nefarious in there, than yes, I'd say some premeditation was involved. But that doesn't have to mean he planned it any earlier than the moment he drove by and saw the girls get dropped off. People carry weapons in their vehicles all the time.

I also can't allow myself to simply assume he has what others have called a "kill kit" (I dislike that term so much) just because I know what he ultimately did. For example (and I'm not saying this is what I necessarily believe), what if he was fishing near the bridge when he saw the girls. He could have had a couple of mini tackle boxes in his pockets. I've done that myself. Or he could have extra weight on his belly plus clothing layers. Or a camera. Or a huffing can or other drug paraphernalia. Or booze. Or a wallet and phone. Or a baby goat.

I guess my point is that the video isn't clear enough to keep the devil's advocate's voice out of my head. While I see a gun and whatever else, I can't say for sure that's what's going on. The unpredictably small window of opportunity for the crime, the high risk of being seen or heard, and the possibility of BG crossing the creek with the girls all feels more impulsive than planned to me, but that's just how I see it.

Good points...there's just so much inside his jacket and it doesn't look to me like it's extra weight on his belly and more like stuff. I hope we'll know one day.

 

[TL4S]

Good points...there's just so much inside his jacket and it doesn't look to me like it's extra weight on his belly and more like stuff. I hope we'll know one day.

I agree. He's got something in there most likely. I hate it, too, because I'm not certain what his real form looks like. The video often looks stretched out, horizontally, to me.

 

[sans_soleil]

There should be a subforum made about this case. There is so much interest and it would be easier to get through all the info if it was more organized.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

There should be a subforum made about this case. There is so much interest and it would be easier to get through all the info if it was more organized.

Link to media thread:
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

 

[Tippy Lynn]

There should be a subforum made about this case. There is so much interest and it would be easier to get through all the info if it was more organized.

*Media Maps & Timelines*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

Scanner Thread

 

[tresir2012]

I could see that. I could see a PTSD type situation, honestly. In his element outdoors, efficient killer, risk taker. Maybe a situation like:

US Marine Alexander Curry-Fishtorn, 22, charged with multiple felonies in connection to Crown Point teen kidnapping

That's crazy. Certainly a possible similar scenario. An obsessed stalker.

 

[taximama24]

[I]Becky said that Derrick said he asked FSG, "Did you see a couple of girls there?"

Becky said that Derrick said that FSG said, "No. But there's a couple down underneath."[/I]

[I]...Becky did mean a couple as in a man and woman. Because in this interview, she does not remember if Derrick ever saw "the couple."[/I]

With conflicting definitions of "couple" I put more value on the response that came from a direct question. Repeating words from a question in an answer is diction taught in American elementary schools, so if these are accurate quotes than FSG guy was almost assuredly using "couple" as in "couple of girls" as Derrick had in the breath prior. Especially knowing no "couple" has ever come forward, I would think even more that FSG would have been referring to a couple of girls. Would be interested in whether anyone followed up with FSG after the fact...

 

[Falling Down]

I think the DNA they have was processed and is only a partial profile. I think from the beginning while following leads, interviews etc...investigators have either pushed aside or included local individuals on their possible suspect list.

I think at some point in the latter half of 2018 LE started questioning certain things known about certain people. I think fresh eyes (Georgia and FBI after Feb 2018) pointed them back towards certain individuals that they needed to further investigate.

In December 2018 more DNA evidence was sent to FBI for "DNA testing research" per Sheriff Leazenby. I do feel that testing and subsequent research revealed Delphi familial hits to that partial DNA profile that shocked the local LE. They could not identify an individual by the partial profile they had so they then had to track, research and eliminate the males.

By the time of the April PC, I believe LE had a very well educated, investigated idea of who was the responsible party. I believe everything said, shown and done at that PC was with this individual and his immediate family in mind.

They need to tie him to the location on that day of the murders. I think that is the stumbling block. Nobody wants an arrest without a clear and definite conviction of this monster. They must be very careful with their witness(es). If they tell the LE that they cannot positively identify BG from a picture lineup and LE's suspect is being given an alibi by someone, LE must find other ways to break the alibi.

I think that is what's happening with this case. Enough DNA to know but not enough to say definitively suspect was in contact with the girls where the died, especially since someone is saying he was with them. AJMO

I'm not sure I agree fully that LE have "eyes on target". I do believe something in the investigation changed early this year, and I hope it leads to an arrest.

JMO

-FD

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Ahhh I don't know...I look at his coat and see that it's filled with all kind of stuff, that at least screams premeditated. IMO.

I think, you are right!
For example in case Missy_B_ Tx the perp was carrying a tool around the church, when he slowly walked the hallways on surveillance, obviously waiting for her. Exactly with this tool MB was murdered (head/breast), when she arrived. That IS premeditated, I believe. So, I would say, if A/L's killer carried a tool in his blue jacket or under his shirt and used it for the killing, it is also premeditated. Otherwise, why at all would he have a tool hidden in his clothing while walking a nice old bridge in the February sunshine? - MOO

 

[Mike Britton]

How about the theory he IS a tool? Wait and see! #JusticeForLibbyAndAbby