IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[Lilibet]

The point of a civil suit was to distract blame away from the grandfather and make a quick buck, hopefully extorting the cruise line into paying out and trying to make the family look like victims.

This toddler deserved a better grandfather, and better parents MOO.

Considering the fact that lawsuits don’t have to be filed immediately, your point that it was intended as a distraction from grandfather is well taken. I wonder if they sought out the attorney Winkleman or if he contacted them. Since he litigates against cruise companies, I assume it was the latter. He probably filled their grieving, conflicted minds with the idea that they had to get a jump on LE by filing suit immediately and that he could make the criminal charges go away. I don’t think the money was the family’s original motivation, but money works well for Winkleman and they went along with his persuasion. I consider him predatory.
JMO

 

[they'll get you]

A ship is not a floating hotel. A ship is a big boat.

A bloody big boat.

 

[they'll get you]

It’s the children who suffer the parents stupidity.

Just now in Sydney Aust. a 2 year old child has fallen out of a three story bedroom window.....yet again.

How many times does this have to happen before people realise not to put bunk beds against a window.

 

[1&2&3]

The quickly filed suit made me think it was due to the fact the mother of Chloe is a lawyer.

My second thought was that with the father being an LE, together they thought the suit would take the focus off grandfather.

In other words, due to their knowledge and occupations, the cruise line would not question the accident. JMO.

 

[MyBelle]

The quickly filed suit made me think it was due to the fact the mother of Chloe is a lawyer.

My second thought was that with the father being an LE, together they thought the suit would take the focus off grandfather.

In other words, due to their knowledge and occupations, the cruise line would not question the accident. JMO.

The lawsuit wasn't quickly filed. It has yet to be filed, according to the family's attorney. Why would the father's profession have any bearing on the case? The child was under the care of her grandfather at the time of her death and LE are supposed to base charges on the facts of the case, not on the profession of the parents, both of whom are considered victims in this case. They haven't been charged.
JMO

Family Stands by Grandfather Charged in Girl's Cruise Ship Death: 'Salt in Open Wounds,' Says Lawyer
Winkleman tells PEOPLE the family is preparing a lawsuit against Royal Caribbean but have not yet filed it because they have not yet accessed the CCTV footage that shows Chloe falling out the window.

 

[Lilibet]

I guess we forgot the lawsuit wasn’t filed already. They talked about it so quickly that it seemed like a done deal. But it makes sense they couldn’t have a copy of the CCTV footage during an ongoing investigation. Now that it’s a criminal case, I expect the lawsuit will have to wait until that’s resolved.

Family Stands by Grandfather Charged in Girl's Cruise Ship Death: 'Salt in Open Wounds,' Says Lawyer
Winkleman tells PEOPLE the family is preparing a lawsuit against Royal Caribbean but have not yet filed it because they have not yet accessed the CCTV footage that shows Chloe falling out the window.

 

[PaulR]

And from same article:
"The Weigands have retained criminal attorneys in San Juan who have thus far declined to speak to the media."
Criminal attorneys in San Juan? Could this be referring to Winkleman? Or other attys?

Almost certainly not, criminal vs. civil law. Difference is that Winkleman probably took this case on contingency (a hefty part of any winnings), those defense attorneys want to be paid in advance.

 

[Safeguard]

"However, EL VOCERO said that prosecutor Ivette Nieves along with the agents of Child Abuse and Homicide of the Criminal Investigation Corps (CIC) of San Juan yesterday reviewed the recordings of the cruise security cameras, where police sources said he sees the maternal grandfather rocking her until [she] falls from his arms and dies..."

Well that made my blood run cold. Could he actually have been playing that sick,
"I'm gonna drop/toss you!" game some ( twisted) people do with toddlers? omg.

If that is what the video shows, well! Color me shocked! I really didn't believe his "Horse Of a Different Color" ever changing story, but my mind would never have gone...there! So much for the "she wanted to bang on the window/I didn't know it was open" excuses! God I hope thats just a translation error! ( But I have heard similar from the first person to speak of what was seen, and I feel like the homicide charges came down specifically because they could tell Grandpa knew that window was open and he put her, at the very least, far to close to it deliberately. But this just blows my mind...

"Police sources insist that the maternal grandfather had the girl in his arms and that [she] appears sticking out of it through the window, from which [she] fell. Prosecutor Ivette Nieves, given the refusal of Chloe's relatives to testify, could use the tapes in the eventual filing of negligence charges under the child protection law against Anello, a crime that has a maximum penalty of three years in jail."

Speechless! There were posters early on that thought this very thing! That he was trying to scare her, and he held her out the window! I was positive no one, drinking or stone sober, would be that reckless with a tiny persons life. WOW!

They can't all have the exact same opinion of this matter. The stress must be enormous.

In a some cases I noticed, Family, couples, vigorously defend each other in the heat of the trial but cracks appear as the years roll on and the full weight of the truth inevitably, slowly seeps in and shatters relationships...

Here we have a step-granddad who is not only not being blamed but is being heatedly defended on national tv by the parents of the child he recklessly caused to die.

My opinion? Misplaced anger. They must be furious! But they cannot deal with the guilt of having placed their baby girl in the hands of her killer. Not yet.

And count me as one who definitely thinks he was inebriated.

I also think he had at least one or two...

 

[al66pine]

The quickly filed suit made me think it was due to the fact the mother of Chloe is a lawyer.
My second thought was that with the father being an LE, together they thought the suit would take the focus off grandfather.
In other words, due to their knowledge and occupations, the cruise line would not question the accident. JMO.

. @1&2&3 and Others

Imo, doubtful that Mom's & Dad's occupations would cause cruiseline not to question 'the accident' i.e., Mom & Dad's allegations in quickly threatened civil lawsuit.
jmo, could be wrong.

 

[al66pine]

(Threatened) Civil Case and Criminal Case

Does anyone know, is it possible for the civil lawsuit to be won in some amount, say holding the ship partially responsible and still going forward with charges against the grandfather. Or on the other hand, if the criminal trial is first and he is found guilty, can the family still go forward with a civil suit? Thanks, to all. What a sad, sad case. There are surely no winners here. Katt

@katsrfun Good question.
Short answer: the two cases are independent of one another.
Agreed, no winners among the parties.

 

[1&2&3]

The way the suit has been mentioned, one would think it was filed. It was brought up too soon after the death for many people to be comfortable with the mere thought of parents even thinking of such a thing. IMO.

I don’t read PEOPLE, therefore, I had no idea it was yet to be filed.

In the USA, too many times people in what may be considered “professions of class” are able to pull strings to receive “favors” so they or family members are not treated the same as regular citizens. Example, don’t get blamed or held responsible. IMO, this is what was in the mind of Chloe’s parents. This is where her father being LE would be a great asset in knowing what to do to try taking the fault/guilt off grandpa.

The lawsuit wasn't quickly filed. It has yet to be filed, according to the family's attorney. Why would the father's profession have any bearing on the case? The child was under the care of her grandfather at the time of her death and LE are supposed to base charges on the facts of the case, not on the profession of the parents, both of whom are considered victims in this case. They haven't been charged.
JMO

Family Stands by Grandfather Charged in Girl's Cruise Ship Death: 'Salt in Open Wounds,' Says Lawyer
Winkleman tells PEOPLE the family is preparing a lawsuit against Royal Caribbean but have not yet filed it because they have not yet accessed the CCTV footage that shows Chloe falling out the window.

 

[TristanP]

The bottom line here is that the man was irresponsible with the child. I don’t understand why this is difficult for people to comprehend.

I think their argument about being “allowed” to bang on glass at the hockey arena is ridiculous. I guarantee you if a hockey puck or stick somehow shattered that glass and the little girl died, it would suddenly have been the arena’s fault for not placing signs saying not to allow children to sit by the glass.

 

[Kindred]

I don’t see why his being hysterical would mean it wasn’t his fault?

Exactly. You think a drunk driver who just slammed his car into a minivan at 95 mph wouldn't get out of his car and freak out over what he just did? They do. Especially if there are witnesses. And many times in their panic they try to flee on foot, or keep driving the car away, or try to find some way to shift the blame. They may never have meant to harm anyone with their reckless behavior, but now they have and they panic. Doesn't make them any less guilty or less their fault.

Puerto Rico has its own constitution, government and justice system including its own supreme court.

Government of Puerto Rico

So does every state and territory in the US, what's your point? This is exactly why PR is the one who has jurisdiction over the criminal case and not the FBI like you were trying to insist earlier.

 

[katydid23]

That's your opinion. If there was a baby seated on the railing--and absolutely no warning posted about the railing or the windows--then that is the fault of the business owner, not the family of the child.

There are ample laws in place about attractive nuisances. A cruise line is not exempt from following the law.

JMO

Why would there need to be a 'warning' posted against doing a ridiculously foolish and dangerous thing? Thats like needing a warning at a restaurant saying don't allow your child to drink your tequila shot or to suck on the steak knife.

 

[katydid23]

What if Chloe's parents/grandparents had balcony staterooms? Balcony doors slide open/closed rather easily, and there is usually furniture on passenger balconies, i.e. table and chairs, loungers, foot stools depending on the size of the
balcony. Balconies have 4' railing with glass below. Would Chloe have been allowed to bang on the balcony glass or sit on the railing?

As I've suggested previously, I got the impression that this family group had not cruised previously. Chloe's mother commented that she "thought there would be water on both sides of the ship" and was surprised when she looked down at the dock after Chloe fell that there wasn't water. Had she already forgotten that they embarked Freedom of the Seas from the cruise terminal on land, not on the water? The ship hadn't set sail yet, so there was land on the dock side of the ship and water on the other side. There isn't water on both sides of the vessel until you're at sea or if the ship is anchored in ports where there is no dock/terminal or the port is inaccessible to large vessels.

And if there was water, would that have prevented the tragic death? NO.

 

[katydid23]

I think in this case both parents and the grandparents were loving and very much a part of CW's life. I don't believe their civil lawsuit is about the money. I think it is about exactly what the mother said: child safety and making sure it doesn't happen to another family.

If our society didn't care about safety, there would be no laws about car seats for children.

JMO

How is this the cruise line's fault? How would they ever imagine that an adult would prop an 18 month old child up against an open window sill, 150 feet above a concrete deck?

 

[katydid23]

Stepped up to what? I don't know how the family was treated by LE. Maybe they felt accused and that they would be railroaded. If I was traveling in an area not covered under the American justice system, I think I'd lawyer up immediately. The mother is an attorney so I think she relied on her own judgment as what to do.

JMO

PR is covered under the American Justice System, being part of the US.

 

[MassGuy]

How is this the cruise line's fault? How would they ever imagine that an adult would prop an 18 month old child up against an open window sill, 150 feet above a concrete deck?

Exactly. Jay Leno used to do a segment on ridiculous warning labels back in the day.

Now I understand why they exist; to protect companies from frivolous lawsuits from people who refuse to accept personal responsibility.

 

[oviedo]

Well that made my blood run cold. Could he actually have been playing that sick,
"I'm gonna drop/toss you!" game some ( twisted) people do with toddlers? omg.

If that is what the video shows, well! Color me shocked!
-
Speechless! There were posters early on that thought this very thing! That he was trying to scare her, and he held her out the window! I was positive no one, drinking or stone sober, would be that reckless with a tiny persons life. WOW!
...

I also think he had at least one or two...

Snipped
Yes and yes - it’s going to be ugly IMO when the truth comes out - all’s they need to release are a few seconds of that video IMO

 

[IceIce9]

That's your opinion. If there was a baby seated on the railing--and absolutely no warning posted about the railing or the windows--then that is the fault of the business owner, not the family of the child.

There are ample laws in place about attractive nuisances. A cruise line is not exempt from following the law.

JMO

As I was running errands yesterday I began noticing all the places where parents could seat children where they could fall to their death, or at least receive serious injury.

County courthouse: a three story building, open in the middle with public offices on all three floors. You can look over a 4 foot tall wall from the 3rd floor to see the marble floor on the ground level. The wall is flat on top, about a foot wide, a perfect place to seat a child to look down at the pretty marble floor below! No warning sign.

A 6 story office building with open stairways. Kind of interesting to look over the railing to see 6 floors down. No warning signs.

Drove past 6 multi-story downtown hotels with outdoor balconies on all floors. I’ve stayed in 3 of them, no warning signs on balconies.


The world is not a child-safe padded room. Parents need to take reasonable precautions with their children as well as make sure the caregivers that care for their children are responsible.